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Scientist claims proof of Afterlife


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#1    DreamRebel

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Posted 04 March 2004 - 10:26 PM

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#2    STIX

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Posted 04 March 2004 - 11:04 PM

Thats wicked, I was never really sure of ghosts, I used to think that your conciousness could linger and what would happen is you would have to wait for a certain ammount of time which varys for each person until you get re-incarnated and when that happens you have a new memory so you cant remember your past life.
I dont remember the specifics but when my brother was little he was talking to my mom like they had just met, he told her his name, which was different (I cant remember what it was) and he was telling her about how he was walking across the street and had got hit by a car. that pretty much proves reincarnation for me becaues my mom wouldnt lie, and my brother was so little (2 1/2) I doubt he would make it up.


#3    the Yank

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Posted 05 March 2004 - 09:45 AM

Congrats Dr. Schwartz, its about time!

Unfortunately, I still don't think the scientific community is going to take it very seriously... which means this area of research will probably remain underfunded for quite some time to come.

But still, progress is being made and that is what counts!!!  thumbsup.gif  

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#4    VanHagar

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Posted 07 March 2004 - 09:43 PM

I'd like to see the statistical significance of their study!


#5    UrbanOracle

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 10:14 PM

This is amazing ! It is a wonderful when our beliefs are verified. About time...


#6    WorkMonkey

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 12:23 AM

A really good example of scientific thinking on this question - thanks!
On the basis of 10 peoples results a pronouncement is made about the whole existance of life after death, and even putting that aside, they ignore the fact that the earths population fluxtuates, if there is a set number of spirits that recycle  themselves why did the Earths population rise dramatically at the end of the Medieval age? How can a spiritual factor be attributed to the reason for population growth ie. trade/advancement in health.


Utter tripe.

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#7    PsychicPenguin

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 01:16 AM

The experiment simply confirms the existence of the medium phenomena. But what it is.. remains a mystery. Another possible explanation is mind reading ability of the medium. Also it is interesting that if "survival of consciousness" is indeed correct:

1. The concept of reincarnation has been disproven. Once the soul is reincarnated our past consciousness ceased to exists, or at least forgotten, and our spirit/soul/whatever won't be able to communicate with the medium.

2. The concept of heaven also contradicts the data. The spirits in heaven should not be able to communicate with the medium (and one of Jesus' parrable mentions this)

So if the conclussion is correct, the afterlife is:
1. No immediate reincarnation.
2. The spirits are still arround in this world, at least for a couple of years.

It looks like we are going to haunt the world for eternity  crying.gif  


#8    spectral

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 01:38 AM

Good point that this, in the strictest sense, only really proves the existance of ESP or super psi but my own predjudice (and lets face it believer and sceptic we all tend to bring our predjudice/beliefs to this subject) questions whether the mind reading theory is stretched a little too thinly to cover this as an explanation. I also agree with the article that differing areas of afterlife research do tend to dovetail or support each other.

As to whether this contradicts reincarnation, I can't see any major problem. It may be that only in an altered state of consciousness or post mortem existance can we access past life memories as otherwise they would interfere on our present physical and spiritual path too much, as for what Jesus or the bible says that's just using one untestable theory to disprove another.  


#9    Azael

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 01:55 AM

QUOTE (PsychicPenguin @ Mar 26 2004, 01:16 AM)
2. The concept of heaven also contradicts the data. The spirits in heaven should not be able to communicate with the medium (and one of Jesus' parrable mentions this)

Actually, the church's concept of heaven contradicts reincarnation, but folk tales do not.

According to Judeo mythos there is a place in heaven called the Guf where all souls come from. It is literally a pool of souls.
It can easily be assumed since souls originate in heaven they can be returned to Earth in much the same way as they first came.


#10    aquatus1

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 03:55 AM

I'm afraid that it might end up proving nothing at all.  If his tests were as invalid as this report claims, then his data is meaningless

Review of Afterlife Experiments


#11    Lostsomewhere

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 05:15 AM

I don't have time to read the artical but I already firmly beleived that our soulslived on after death. I don't not beleive in recarnation, I actually laugh when I hear people beleive that. Our souls go to eather Heaven or Hell. They enter one of these and there they are forever. And why don't you think a little kid would make up such a story? I know for a fact that kids that age repeat everthing they hear so its very likly your little brother did the same. and why would God reuse souls if he could just make more? Spirits live on but not on earth.


#12    Kismit

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 05:20 AM

QUOTE
A really good example of scientific thinking on this question - thanks!
On the basis of 10 peoples results a pronouncement is made about the whole existance of life after death

There are actually hundreds of accounts of NDE's  it's just a shame they only chose 10 people to do this study ,a really good site on the subject can be found here.
Link

QUOTE
and even putting that aside, they ignore the fact that the earths population fluxtuates, if there is a set number of spirits that recycle themselves why did the Earths population rise dramatically at the end of the Medieval age?

And what if it isn't a set number of spirits , what if it is just a huge ethereal glob that only pieces are used at any one time . What if souls dont just re-incarnate automatically. That would explain flactuations in the population.

QUOTE
How can a spiritual factor be attributed to the reason for population growth ie. trade/advancement in health.
  Why should a spiritual factor be attributed to trade growth or advances in health ?


#13    Chris_com28

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 11:32 AM

QUOTE
if there is a set number of spirits that recycle themselves why did the Earths population rise dramatically at the end of the Medieval age? How can a spiritual factor be attributed to the reason for population growth ie. trade/advancement in health.

Have you considered the fact that aliens being reincarnated on other planets can equal out the imbalance. Reincarnation could also be a more permanent thing. The Source could be constantly sending out souls in a purification process so it seems that reincarnation cannot be disproven this way.

Also when people talk to people that have passed over, they may not actaully be talking to them. It may just be like a part of their consciousness that was left in the ether or astral when their bodies left. It could also be an aspect of their current consciousness be communicating while they're actually  incarnated in their new body.

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#14    aquatus1

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 01:56 PM

Yes, but then you are making one of the same mistakes that this study made, namely using a method which has not been validated (mediums) to provide proof of a process which has not yet been validated (after-life).

After several hours, I was finally able to get a copy of the statistical data from a friend of mine.  As soon as it gets here in the mail, I'll take a look at the results.  But I admit to a bias, as my friend already told me that it consists of 'Cold-Reading 101'.


#15    WorkMonkey

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 02:23 PM

QUOTE (Chris_com28 @ Mar 26 2004, 11:32 AM)
Have you considered the fact that aliens being reincarnated on other planets can equal out the imbalance. Reincarnation could also be a more permanent thing. The Source could be constantly sending out souls in a purification process so it seems that reincarnation cannot be disproven this way.

I can't disproove reincarnation because a "source" could be permanent? the source could be constantly sending out souls?

Thats alot of coulds, It would seem then by your logic that I could disproove any prooven scientific fact by saying that "ghosts" did it.

And yes, I considered the fact that aliens might be being reincarnated on other planets....then I dismissed it. It is sheer human egotism that is making you assume "aliens" will be consciously and spiritually connected to us, if indeed life does exist out there, then it formed independantly and why would it be collectively joined to us?


no "Because it just is..." replies please.

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