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an interesting philosophy


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#16    man_in_mudboots

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 07:12 PM

mr spartan, that certainly is an interesting idea
ive heard it before;
and i cant say i agree with it
but this came to me in its defense:
viruses are not considered scientifically alive because they do not eat,
nor do they drink,
nor grow or develop,
only reproduce and move;
that is only 2 out of 6 of the charicteristics of living things;
what if the earth is like them?
sorry about the prose-
i just had to try it, you see;
it will not become a habit.



#17    Spartan

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 05:53 PM

QUOTE (man_in_mudboots @ Mar 8 2004, 07:12 PM)
mr spartan, that certainly is an interesting idea
ive heard it before;
and i cant say i agree with it
but this came to me in its defense:
viruses are not considered scientifically alive because they do not eat,
nor do they drink,
nor grow or develop,
only reproduce and move;
that is only 2 out of 6 of the charicteristics of living things;
what if the earth is like them?
sorry about the prose-
i just had to try it, you see;
it will not become a habit.

Pose is cool
its for the smart,hahaha
i belive that solids are the mother if you will and any type of energy is the father
when these to meet ,shazam,life.
ofcourse this is to basic to prove
but i think you get the message
one more thing,do viruses evolve
i think they do
thumbsup.gif  

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#18    strichar

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 08:18 PM

Well, the comet didn't hit head on, it just kind of grased one side of Earth. I'm not saying that all planets are indeed alive. I'm just speaking hypothetically, since evolution can only be attributed to lifeforms.

QUOTE
You don't think that would have an effect sort of like a wrecking ball hitting an orange?


grin2.gif I agree on that point though. thumbsup.gif  

Edited by strichar, 11 March 2004 - 08:21 PM.

Avatar Animation done by thBarman. Thanks Barman.

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"A man's dreams are an index to his greatness."

-- Cardinal Durand XVIII

The point is to discover that core of uniqueness that is in each of us, that is beyond all social roles and to make that the point from which we act, live, and think in the world.

#19    swj20

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 09:13 PM

Hi, Spart-
And Mr. Man who works hard, in boots!

If I may help this proceed, let me just say that I am no poet,
but I would guess that the term prose is derived from proceed.
To proceed is to go straight forward.
To not tarry in the abstract.
So, to me, prose is directness.

I assume Man views Sparty's efforts as briefly written thoughts,
which look like measured meter, or poetry.

As for me, they are neither, as he writes. But rather, they are
short decriptions of things he may not have grappled with,
except in an intuitive, personal feeling way.

I will admit, I know little on Mendleleav, or whatever his name was,
and even less about Darwin.

Please let me make an observation. Dad had a pigeon coup.
When he was a boy, that coup in our yard was his hobby.  He raised racing pigeons. He raced his neighbor. His neighbor always won.
Dad said his pigeons always looked  the same, but the neighbor's
got more and more fancy-  through breeding.

The man next door understood selective breeding. That took place over
several years. Imagine thousands of years, or millions of days
of different weather, habitat changes, food deprivation and migration.

Those who 'adapted', but were caught short when serious changes,
or a cataclysmic event occured, those comfortable and able ones
may not have made the change to the new situation.

But, if there were some that had new and unique random characteristics,
and if they enabled those members of that group to survive into the
new situation, then they were lucky. And they got fat and sassy, and
reproduced. The situation maybe repeats. Time went on, the bulk
of the population 'adapts', a few odd-ones are created, who are odd,
but healthy, then events happen. The mass dies off, the odd characters
survive, and so on.
So, the odd ones are few. The mass is many. The odd ones depend
on the mass for reproduction opportunities, if necessary.

So, I see evolution as mutually interdependent classes of individuals,
both common and odd; and along with events in the environment,
species change.

Nature is limited, in how it cares for living creatures. It only has so much
to give. Continents move, weather changes when volcanoes
erupt, like Krakatoa, the plentiful food disappears.
Times get lean, and the tough get going.

Do not underestimate the soft side of nature. Love is real. I have seen
animals that adore their mates. They feel love, I have seen adoration
between animals. O.K., maybe its biology, but it happens...

Sparty- educated people argue the whys and wherefores of evolution.
It has many levels of study, from molecules, to mountaintops.

If you want to fight with the best of them, get a basic idea, or a feel
for the well studied versions. And you MUST round it out with a basic
understanding of the overlapping fields, like basic chemistry, and
basic paleontology- very, very basic will do...

If you went out, like they did, and dug around, and looked at samples,
and did laboratory studies, and held conferences, then at least give them
an ounce of credit.

By the same token- be open minded to new ideas, your own, especially.

IF YOU BELIEVE NOT ALL IS KNOWN, AND A REVOLUTION IN THINKING
ABOUT OUR HUMAN ANCESTRY IS POSSIBLE, YOU ARE ENTITLED
TO THAT BELIEF. CERTAINLY, AND ACCELERATION MY HAVE OCCURRED
SOMEWHERE, SOMETIME... UNEXPLAINED.

You must realize the implications. There is a lot to consider, a lot of
inferring about manipulations. By whom, when, where, and by what
generation would someone arrive at the desired change?

You see? Did they induce instant change, over a few years?
Did they wait with the patience of generations?
What was the timeline for advanced biological manipulation?
Was it to reap instant results, steal the results, and scoot off to
the next world? Was it to keep us from going extinct?
Why would they care? How long do they live, these manipulators?
What is their timeline and agenda?
See?
Questions... See ya...

Edited by swj20, 12 March 2004 - 01:47 AM.


#20    man_in_mudboots

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 09:19 PM

QUOTE (Spartan @ Mar 11 2004, 05:53 PM)
one more thing, do viruses evolve
i think they do

absolutly, viruses and bacteria mutate more than any other thing on earth. do you know why you cant cure the common cold? because as soon as a cure is developed, the bacteria has already mutated into a hundred thousand new forms which are now unharmed by the medicine. people have realized that unless they can control its mutations, a cure will never be developed.  wink2.gif  


#21    Spartan

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Posted 15 March 2004 - 03:45 PM

QUOTE (man_in_mudboots @ Mar 11 2004, 09:19 PM)
QUOTE (Spartan @ Mar 11 2004, 05:53 PM)
one more thing, do viruses evolve
i think they do

absolutly, viruses and bacteria mutate more than any other thing on earth. do you know why you cant cure the common cold? because as soon as a cure is developed, the bacteria has already mutated into a hundred thousand new forms which are now unharmed by the medicine. people have realized that unless they can control its mutations, a cure will never be developed.  wink2.gif

Maybe the aids virus is a advanced cold virus,wich changes to attack the white cells.

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#22    ScreaminEagle

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 07:20 AM

It is totally irresponsible and selfish to believe that we are the only planet harboring life in the universe. Not too long ago "we" believed that there wasn't water on Mars, now what? This will sink in to nay-sayers over time and after a few more yrs. there will be another "little" announcement. I think that the gov't is just gearing us up for the big announcement that we are not alone. I believe with Bush wanting a manned mission to Mars that we will all find out the truth. Maybe not right then but soon after.

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#23    Seahorse

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Posted 24 March 2004 - 12:48 AM

I tend to believe that there is life on other planets.  How it got there, if a God put it there (or, for that matter, put us here), I don't know.  It just seems ridiculously closed-minded and ethnocentric (no, that's not quite right...speciescentric?  earthcentric?) to assume that we're IT, here on earth.

But mainly, what's up with the "don't write in prose" stuff?  ALL of our posts are prose.  That is, prose is just regular written language (as opposed to poetry).  Short stories, newspaper articles, the back of a cereal box -- all prose.

What some members are writing in is a sort of "chopped up" prose, kind of like a prose poem.  


#24    WorkMonkey

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Posted 24 March 2004 - 10:47 AM

QUOTE (PsychicPenguin @ Mar 7 2004, 06:48 PM)
huh.gif What??????????????????

Dude, the theory of evolution is only applicable to iological lifeforms. Tell me how a planet get mutated and go through natural selection...  rolleyes.gif

Well the earth changed from a hunk of molten rock into a vegetated world.
And I guess the natural selection would be survivng long enough to be able to harbour probiotic life.

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#25    ScreaminEagle

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 05:02 AM

I really don't know how to put this but I have a theory on life and the universe. I have no formal knowledge, really, of biology besides high school or astronomy but have been trying to learn more on my own. With that said....

I believe that one of the basic structures of our bodies the cell is much like the earth and the stars. Cells have a nucleus, protons, electrons, cell wall. To me the earth is just another cell making up something bigger, maybe God. We are the protons and electrons running around making stuff happen. Growth.

I look at the night sky and see many different areas of spiralling star systems. Like DNA double-helix. The Dogon peoples of Africa believe that a race of reptilians came from the dog star Sirius system and it's sister star and cross-bred with a species from earth so they could survive. Until recent times Westerners thought that there wasn't another star with Sirius. When the two were studied they moved in the double-helix pattern much like DNA.

Does this sound logical about the whole earth cell thing?

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#26    DC09

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 12:32 PM

It's possible there is life on other planets but not as likely as people think.
Sorry to burst your bubble but 80% of those stars are Red Dwarfs and are not capable of being a life supporting sun to planets.
One reason is they emit most their radiation during their red phase and photosynthesis needs both red and blue light. These stars are also of considerably less mass than our sun and a planet would have to orbit very close to generate enough heat to maintain a liquid surface.
The problem with that is tidal force gets stronger as you move in so the planet would end up in tidally-locked state. This means that it would always present the same face toward the sun. The lit side would be very hot and dry and the unlit side extremely cold and icy.
Red dwarfs also dont produce much ultraviolet light which you need early on to build up oxygen in the atmosphere.
There are also there types of galaxies.
Spiral, which is our own Milky Way.
Elliptical, which are egg shaped and are dangerous places not likely to have life supporting planets. Most galaxies are elliptical.
Irregular, which is disorganized and distorted and are even more dangerous than elliptical.





#27    swj20

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 11:07 PM

Mr. Man Whose Feet are Immaculate, No Doubt, and So Protected

If I gave you a large amount of hydrogen, and given its really neat
properties, do you think that by itself, it might come up with life?
I mean, it has some very distinguishing charateristics, non?
You may ask, how did it arrive at those neat qualities?
The ability to keep on rolling the dice...

To walk outside on a spring day, and see the first pink blooms on a
peach tree, that makes me stop wondering, and start appreciating.
And when, on the fourth or fifth day, it suddenly grows leaves
two inches long, overnight, I stop wondering. And when I smell the
new grasses, I just accept it all.

How many times would a god need to create its life drama?
How many earths would be needed to possibly enrich the meaning
of the Universe? The question becomes academic.

As for me, I'll be content knowing my lack of knowledge does,
in no way, constrain the inventiveness of all creation.



#28    man_in_mudboots

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 11:23 PM

QUOTE (swj20 @ Mar 26 2004, 12:07 AM)
If I gave you a large amount of hydrogen, and given its really neat
properties, do you think that by itself, it might come up with life?
I mean, it has some very distinguishing charateristics, non?

huh? are you talking to me? am i 'mr man whose feet are immaculate, no doubt, and so protected?' if so, my feet are by no mean immaculate, considering there is as much mud inside the boots as out!

anyway, what you say is right, but according to the priciples of evolution, only an extreme temperature lasting for an instant would 'do the trick' and change the hydrogen into a functioning cell. just about the only way this could happen is in a lightening strike, where the atoms make three times as much heat as the surface of the sun, yet it lasts for millionths of a second. lightening striking the water could fuse a few atoms of hydrogen into an organism (albiet the simplest of simple) in a chain reaction. this is so far the only resonable suggestion of how life got is start, and would seem to go with the second senario. dig?  


#29    Pharoahe

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 03:05 AM

Ok I'm going out on a limb here...The theory of how we got here that I believe really doesn't go along with how the Bible is. I have been warned before for speaking down about religion. I did not believe in God or anything of the Bible until I met a person who is a good friend of mine now. He has taught me and shown me many books about life in general.

Life does exist on other planets and all over the universe. The fact that Earth is such a small part of the universe and has life should show the human race that there is obviously life out there somewhere, otherwise I don't think we would even be here. Life exists on other planets in other dimensions. We live on the 3rd dimension on Earth. There is still 11 other dimensions on Earth along with 12 octaves for each one. It is a hard concept to understand for a lot of people. The way we look at life is the only way we know how to. There is other dimensions here on Earth some of which could be very devistating. Fact is we can only understand the dimension we are in.

Some of you might think I am crazy or something but I have my beliefs. Fact is I don't believe in religion. What I believe happened is that there was a form of life on the planet Pluto which needed the element Gold to survive. They created 2 little monkey like creatures which we unable to reproduce until they ate the certain fruit quite similar to how the Bible puts it. They were created to mine gold and mine gold only. The foreign race did not want them to reproduce to create what is now today a human. They found the fruit and they started the human race. The 2 creatures are Adam and Eve I suppose. They found the fruit and they created our race. They decided to come here to mine the gold because the Earth's supply of gold at that time was extraordinary. They got tired of mining gold all day themselves so they created 2 slaves almost to do their work for them. This may make me sound insane but I have seen a few pictures floating around portraying Adam and Eve as primate type creatures with fur on their bodies. This theory almost combines evolution with the bible, think about it...ya never know!

Aliens exist...that simple

#30    man_in_mudboots

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 01:55 PM

QUOTE (Pharoahe @ Apr 14 2004, 04:05 AM)
Life exists on other planets in other dimensions. We live on the 3rd dimension on Earth. There is still 11 other dimensions on Earth along with 12 octaves for each one. It is a hard concept to understand for a lot of people.

yeah, and its really hard when nobody explains it. basically your going with #1, huh?





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