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Obama's spurious Al-Qaeda claims


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#31    Neognosis

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 02:02 PM

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And how do you know now that there is no WMD?


1- They weren't used when we invaded. If you had a weapon and were losing a war, you would use it
2- We've been looking for years, and haven't found anything.

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Nope, the Chmical weapons he used were made with ingredients that came from different countries and that includes the United States. We didn't give him any Chmical Weapon


We advised him to use them on Iran, and we, along with france, GB, germany, etc, supplied them.

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A PBS Frontline episode, "The Arming of Iraq" (1990) detailed much of the conventional and so-called "dual-use" weapons sold to Iraq. The public learned from other sources that at least since mid-1980s the US was selling chemical and biological material for weapons to Iraq and orchestrating private sales. These sales began soon after current Secretary of State, Donald Rumsfeld traveled to Baghdad in 1985 and met with Saddam Hussein as a private businessman on behalf of the Reagan administration. In the last major battle of the Iran-Iraq war, some 65,000 Iranians were killed, many by gas.




#32    AROCES

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 02:18 PM

Neognosis on Aug 19 2008, 02:56 PM, said:

I said since being kicked out of Kuwait.

Then why were the measures not withdrawn on Iraq if they were not a threat aymore?

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Are you kidding? We didn't encourage Iraq to go to war? WE SUPPLIED HIM. We gave him the weapons he used to go to war. Hello? And then, behind his back, we gave Iran weapons too. Then we wondered why Iran and Iraq didn't like us anymore.

AGAIN, Middle East instability is something we would not encourage really.
What weapons? You mean those during the Shah era?


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We don't have the military capability to remain stuck in Iraq and also have leverage to influence policy. We simply are not strong enough to hold down Iraq, fight terrorism, and influence Russia and China. We just don't have the juice anymore. And Iraq has both contributed to this and exposed this.

You mean like how we have Military presence in Europe and some other parts of the world?


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Sure. But then what? Hit them and then leave? What do you imagine will happen then? Will these terrorists say to themselves "well, we better not be terrorists anymore" or will they come back in and establish a bigger following, and take advantage of a weakened gov't to set up ligitimate controll? Think it through.

Well, when we didn't do anything we kept getting hit by terrorist, so far we not been hit yet.
Think it through.

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In addition, as Iraq continues to suck the stregnth and money out of the US, other countries that are watching are seeing more and more chinks in our armor, more weakness, more inability to fight a war on more than two fronts. And the american people display weakness too. We want to fight terrorism and wave the flag and invade all these countries, but we wont' tolerate a draft or gas or food rationing. We want a war to feel good about, but we don't want to sacrafice any comforts at home for it.

We are fighting a different enemy, and slowly we are figuring them out and learning how to fight them, it's really the other way around.
Be patient.

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I said INTELLECTUALLY LAZY. We are ignorant and we prefer to remain so. We accept what is spoon fed to us, we would rather hear what panties brittney and paris are wearing than educate ourselves about what is going on in the ME, in Georgia, etc. Many countries don't WORK as hard as we do, and that's fine. What's unacceptable is intellectual laziness.

The people was never this well informed since the advancemant in modern Technology, communication, media and world wide web.
So what you are saying is untrue and was the case 20 years ago.


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It's only too expensive because we have a throw away culture. Instead of buying one american watch that costs 100 dollars and keeping it for 10 years, we buy a 10 dollar chinese watche that breaks and get thrown away and replaced every year. We don't want to pay extra for quality and take care of things, we just want cheap crap NOW. And we are sacraficing our country for it.

Not many can afford a $100 watch really.

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And where does GE MAKE it's products? China. So the idea that we have more than a few american countries exporting is a distortion. Yea, GE is an american company and they sell things abroud. but they make their stuff in china, largly.

I am not talking about toasters, GE makes jet engines for one thing.

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The Japanese economy took a nosedive because they lacked....what? Anyone know? Their own Natural resources and manufacturing. Two things China has in abundance.

Nope, Japanese manufacturing became expensive as well. Why do you think Toyota and Honda has plants here now?

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You can answer that in the same post you answer my question about whether or not we found WMDs in Iraq.

Oh yeah, we did not find any WMD in Iraq.
And we all know that now beacsue we went in and verified it, right?

Edited by AROCES, 19 August 2008 - 02:21 PM.


#33    AROCES

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 02:28 PM

Neognosis on Aug 19 2008, 03:02 PM, said:

1- They weren't used when we invaded. If you had a weapon and were losing a war, you would use it

We didn't know then and our Military was even prepared for it.

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2- We've been looking for years, and haven't found anything.

And Saddam would not cooperate , so no one could verify it even after so many years.

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We advised him to use them on Iran, and we, along with france, GB, germany, etc, supplied them.

We advised him mainly on defensive against chemical weapons indeed, but not to strike Iran with any.


#34    Teej

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 03:32 PM

AROCES on Aug 19 2008, 07:58 AM, said:

These people didn't hide, everyone knew they were alive, active and leading a certain organization or a rebellion, they just don't make a daily announcement of where they are which is normal when you have enemies.  
While Bin Laden is just like Saddam, when things got tough he was found in a fox hole hiding. A lion???


That's great.  Let's just pretend bin Laden is dead so he'll just disappear like a bad dream.  If you close your eyes and can't see him, he doesn't exist right?  

True, the people I listed were all known to be alive at the time.  But then again we don't exactly know bin Laden is dead.  And that's the big problem, as long as there's even the idea that he's still alive, he can still have a powerful leadership role.  But hey, no harm ever came from just letting someone go as a non-factor.

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If the Democrats are in charge now, I don't think Bin Laden would even be hiding.


Yes, perhaps the Democrats would have actually stuck to the plan and finished what they started by capturing/killing him.  Guess we'll never know about that, but you did happen to avoid my point:  would you give up on bin Laden if the roles were reversed and the Democrats had been unable to apprehend him?

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#35    AROCES

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 04:10 PM

Teej on Aug 19 2008, 04:32 PM, said:

That's great.  Let's just pretend bin Laden is dead so he'll just disappear like a bad dream.  If you close your eyes and can't see him, he doesn't exist right?

He made himself disappear and you don't even have to close your eyes really.
The thing is, I don't think we have stopped looking for him, we are just easing off a bit and maybe that will make him stick his head out if he is still alive.

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True, the people I listed were all known to be alive at the time.  But then again we don't exactly know bin Laden is dead.  And that's the big problem, as long as there's even the idea that he's still alive, he can still have a powerful leadership role.  But hey, no harm ever came from just letting someone go as a non-factor.

You can assume whatever you want, the thing is he is non- factor now.
I mean what has he been a factor of the past 4 years??? How can you lead when not even ytour own followers knows where you are or if you still exist.
You describing him really as if he is some God then.

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Yes, perhaps the Democrats would have actually stuck to the plan and finished what they started by capturing/killing him.  Guess we'll never know about that, but you did happen to avoid my point:  would you give up on bin Laden if the roles were reversed and the Democrats had been unable to apprehend him?

Oh yeah, even if Kerry is the Presiden now it does not change the fact that Bin Laden is non factor now.
But like i said, we are still looking but have ease off on it.


#36    ninjadude

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 03:55 AM

AROCES on Aug 19 2008, 11:10 AM, said:

He made himself disappear and you don't even have to close your eyes really.
The thing is, I don't think we have stopped looking for him, we are just easing off a bit and maybe that will make him stick his head out if he is still alive.


You can assume whatever you want, the thing is he is non- factor now.
I mean what has he been a factor of the past 4 years??? How can you lead when not even ytour own followers knows where you are or if you still exist.
You describing him really as if he is some God then.


Oh yeah, even if Kerry is the Presiden now it does not change the fact that Bin Laden is non factor now.
But like i said, we are still looking but have ease off on it.


But your hero McCain wants a draft so that he can "chase him to the ends of the earth". Kind of makes McCain and the Republicans think he is a major factor.

"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!""
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