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The Dems and GOP are just marketers?


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#1    SoCrazes

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:55 PM

My cynical side must ask:

"Could a case be made that currently the political parites are nothing more than marketing machines for something bigger?"  Does one shade the products/services blue while the other shades them red and in the end we still get the same product in a differnt colored wrapper?

"The unexamined life is not worth living." - Socrates

#2    ninjadude

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 05:53 AM


No. This is what one side tends to do when it is about to loose. Try to get voters to not vote by painting the contest as not meaningful. If you actually think that you are not paying attention. This may be one of the most important elections in the modern history. The "shades" are not shades at all but very clear and different ways forward on a number of issues. It will remain to be seen if after the election the ways hold true to those convictions but the ideologies are vastly different.

"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!""
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#3    SoCrazes

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 10:13 PM

ninjadude on Aug 20 2008, 06:53 AM, said:

No. This is what one side tends to do when it is about to loose. Try to get voters to not vote by painting the contest as not meaningful. If you actually think that you are not paying attention. This may be one of the most important elections in the modern history. The "shades" are not shades at all but very clear and different ways forward on a number of issues. It will remain to be seen if after the election the ways hold true to those convictions but the ideologies are vastly different.

I hope you're correct.  Can you elaborate on how they are different?  I have my perspective, would like to read yours.  Thanks.

"The unexamined life is not worth living." - Socrates

#4    ninjadude

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 11:41 PM


There are literally millions of websites comparing the two. Here's one to get you started.

comparison

"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!""
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#5    Incorrigible1

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 12:13 AM

SoCrazes on Aug 20 2008, 05:13 PM, said:

I hope you're correct.  Can you elaborate on how they are different?  I have my perspective, would like to read yours.  Thanks.

As is typical, you got a link to someone else's thoughts.

If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose that too. -- W. Somerset Maugham
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#6    SoCrazes

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 01:20 AM

Incorrigible1 on Aug 21 2008, 01:13 AM, said:

As is typical, you got a link to someone else's thoughts.

Isn't that the purpose of a forum...to share ideas and thoughts?  Learning doesn't take place in a vaccuum.

"The unexamined life is not worth living." - Socrates

#7    __Kratos__

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 01:49 AM

Kind of sucks, I can find that excellent speech from Alan Shore on Boston Legal that discussed this... Some nazi took it from youtube.

Basically each side is like pepsi and coke. Both massive billion dollar giants that sling mud at each other. But as long as they do that, they suggest they are the biggest and best. As long as they keep at it slinging the mud at each other, nobody is going to pay attention to the great tasting RC cola. And everybody is just going to keep on drinking pepsi and coke because they each validate each other as top rivals and keep their word out about each other.

If more Americans just had some more RC cola, we wouldn't have this huge stage show being put on for us all.

Edited by __Kratos__, 21 August 2008 - 02:52 AM.

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#8    BlindMessiah

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 04:09 AM

ninjadude on Aug 20 2008, 05:53 AM, said:

No. This is what one side tends to do when it is about to loose. Try to get voters to not vote by painting the contest as not meaningful. If you actually think that you are not paying attention. This may be one of the most important elections in the modern history. The "shades" are not shades at all but very clear and different ways forward on a number of issues. It will remain to be seen if after the election the ways hold true to those convictions but the ideologies are vastly different.


Being that I have no side this is not the case. I can however see how the two party system is a politcal tool to control the masses. You present one option as a supposed choice. It's like saying, you can vote for A or B. While you can choose A or B, they're both still letters and country needs numbers. The two party system prevents 1, 2, 3, 4 etc from being elected.


#9    danielost

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 05:08 AM

__Kratos__ on Aug 20 2008, 08:49 PM, said:

Kind of sucks, I can find that excellent speech from Alan Shore on Boston Legal that discussed this... Some nazi took it from youtube.

Basically each side is like pepsi and coke. Both massive billion dollar giants that sling mud at each other. But as long as they do that, they suggest they are the biggest and best. As long as they keep at it slinging the mud at each other, nobody is going to pay attention to the great tasting RC cola. And everybody is just going to keep on drinking pepsi and coke because they each validate each other as top rivals and keep their word out about each other.

If more Americans just had some more RC cola, we wouldn't have this huge stage show being put on for us all.



or it would be bigger.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#10    BlindMessiah

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 05:10 AM

danielost on Aug 21 2008, 06:08 AM, said:

or it would be bigger.


What would be bigger?


#11    danielost

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 05:12 AM

BlindMessiah on Aug 20 2008, 11:09 PM, said:

Being that I have no side this is not the case. I can however see how the two party system is a politcal tool to control the masses. You present one option as a supposed choice. It's like saying, you can vote for A or B. While you can choose A or B, they're both still letters and country needs numbers. The two party system prevents 1, 2, 3, 4 etc from being elected.



If you live outside of the usa, you cannot vote for the leader only the party.  The party with the most votes or enough votes picks the leader.  True the electoral college vote is the one that only counts for president, but the people still get to vote for whom they want.


I think that all states should do it like the two states do and each college vote goes to the person that the people in that area vote for instead of all votes for the state going to one person.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#12    BlindMessiah

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 05:20 AM

danielost on Aug 21 2008, 06:12 AM, said:

If you live outside of the usa, you cannot vote for the leader only the party.  The party with the most votes or enough votes picks the leader.  True the electoral college vote is the one that only counts for president, but the people still get to vote for whom they want.


I think that all states should do it like the two states do and each college vote goes to the person that the people in that area vote for instead of all votes for the state going to one person.


I was referring to the fact that third parties can't win.


#13    Lt_Ripley

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 12:29 PM

the only way we are going to break away from this system is to restrict funds ........... keep campaigns to facts alone and hold nothing but debates to be televised and let the average joe make a decision from there.

no more promises that are never kept. no more half truths or lies about your opponent . .... you get the drift.

it's sickening to see how much money is spent . One should just put the list out there of what they want to accomplish, their idea of how to go about doing that  and where they stand on issues and leave it at that .... one only needs to stump via in depth debates for a couple of weeks before the vote.  More than enough time . And that would allow a more even footing for other parties .

substance not crap.


#14    Mr Honeybadger

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 01:36 PM

Both sides are about greed and power.  Once elected, their main goal is to do whatever it takes to get re-elected.  Their principles and honesty go right out the window.



#15    Incorrigible1

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 02:51 PM

Lt_Ripley on Aug 21 2008, 07:29 AM, said:

the only way we are going to break away from this system is to restrict funds ........... keep campaigns to facts alone and hold nothing but debates to be televised and let the average joe make a decision from there.

no more promises that are never kept. no more half truths or lies about your opponent . .... you get the drift.

it's sickening to see how much money is spent . One should just put the list out there of what they want to accomplish, their idea of how to go about doing that  and where they stand on issues and leave it at that .... one only needs to stump via in depth debates for a couple of weeks before the vote.  More than enough time . And that would allow a more even footing for other parties .

substance not crap.

Thanks for the lobbed slowpitch:

The Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002 (BCRA, McCain–Feingold Act, Pub.L. 107-155, 116 Stat. 81, enacted 2002-03-27) is United States federal law that amended the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971, which regulates the financing of political campaigns. Its chief sponsors were Senators John McCain (R-AZ) and Russell Feingold (D-WI). The law became effective on 6 November 2002, and the new legal limits became effective on 1 January 2003.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartisan_Campaign_Reform_Act



If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose that too. -- W. Somerset Maugham
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