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Obama chooses Biden as running mate


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#31    Plainbob13

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 08:08 PM

glyndowers heir on Aug 23 2008, 03:06 PM, said:

God I need my glasses changing,

I could have sworn the title said Obama chooses Bin Laden as running mate! geek.gif


So much for a president of change huh.


#32    CosmicStaR

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 08:09 PM

Plainbob13 on Aug 23 2008, 03:08 PM, said:

So much for a president of change huh.

Sooo
Someone should give stats on Joe Biden so everyone can see what exactly this guy is about

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#33    Guardsman Bass

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 08:24 PM

Hillary Clinton would have been a terrible choice. Aside from that fact that you'd really be getting two of them (Hillary and Bill), Hillary would spend half of the time feathering her nest for a 2012 run in case Obama loses. Biden, at least, doesn't need to do that; he's already getting long in the tooth, and he could always go back to his Senate seat if Obama loses. Besides, I suspect the power of the Hillary diehards is over-rated (just like Tim Kaine is vastly overrated as a VP choice, along with Evan Bayh and Sebellius, although I liked Sebellius).

Like Startraveler has pointed out, it's not just the foreign policy experience. Assuming Obama can keep Biden from making any outright stupid remarks, Biden is an excellent attack dog for Obama, and is very knowledgeable about congressional politics in general as well as international politics. Not to mention that he has a very compelling working-class story; he actually came from a working-class background.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours." -Sir Charles Napier

"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted."  — D.H. Lawrence

#34    Siara

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 08:26 PM

Pinky Floyd on Aug 23 2008, 08:35 PM, said:

If McCain doesn't screw up and put someone in there that is totally from outerspace, he's all but won the election.

God, I hope not.  It's ironic that I should say that because I actually like McCain quite a bit.  The problem is that Bush has done such an appallingly horrible job that we need someone who's more opposite Bush than McCain is.  Don't get me wrong... I like Obama (also Biden) and when I vote Democratic in the upcoming election, it won't be just an anti-Republican vote.  But sometimes I can't help wondering why McCain wasn't elected instead of Bush.  He's so much more intelligent and savvy about international politics.  Why did the Republican party make such a stupid decision last time around?

I think Bush was elected because he was 'the kind of guy people would like to sit down and have a beer with'.  Next time y'all go out for a beer look around the bar.  You see any presidential material there?  Of course, religious Americans all gave Bush a knee-jerk vote because he said "God", "Jesus", and "Bible" more than the other candidates.  I guess we got what the general public deserved.

Edited by Siara, 23 August 2008 - 08:30 PM.


#35    stevewinn

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 08:27 PM

whats a running mate?

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#36    Startraveler

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 08:29 PM

stevewinn on Aug 23 2008, 04:27 PM, said:

whats a running mate?


In terms of importance to the outcome of modern U.S. presidential elections? Nothing.

Edited by Startraveler, 23 August 2008 - 08:30 PM.


#37    InHuman

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 08:31 PM

stevewinn on Aug 23 2008, 01:27 PM, said:

whats a running mate?


You don't have the 3 legged races in the queen's country?

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#38    Guardsman Bass

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 08:36 PM

stevewinn on Aug 23 2008, 02:27 PM, said:

whats a running mate?


It's a presidential candidate's choice for Vice President over here in America-land. More or less, it's a rather almost useless post in most cases, which is kind of sad; I really think the Vice President should take a very active role in promoting the President's goals in Congress, and should participate in an equivalent to Question Time.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours." -Sir Charles Napier

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#39    Pinky Floyd

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 08:52 PM

Guardsman Bass on Aug 23 2008, 03:24 PM, said:

Assuming Obama can keep Biden from making any outright stupid remarks,


He will need luck on that one...Biden is not as bad as he once was, but he is still somewhat of a loose cannon with the mouth..

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ABC'S George Stephanopoulos asking Biden during a debate while he was still contesting Obama for the nomination: "You were asked, 'Is he ready?' You said, 'I think he can be ready but right now, I don't believe he is. The presidency is not something that lends itself to on-the-job training.'

"I think that I stand by the statement," Biden is shown replying.

"And what does he say about John McCain?" the announcer asks.

"I would be honored to run with or against  blink.gif  John McCain, because I think the country would be better off," Biden is shown replying .

Source

With or against?  huh.gif  What was he thinking?  I'm not a political pro, but my guess is this ain't good. (This is damn near an endorsement for McCain over Barak-by Barak's VP choice!). OUCH...Guardy, I'm guessin' that this one does qualify as 'outright stupid'.  Repubs will have a field day with just this one quote..(there are other gaffes to dissect as well..)

Edited by Pinky Floyd, 24 August 2008 - 03:30 AM.


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#40    BlindMessiah

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 01:13 AM

Obama is struggling with white women over 30, so he picks a man. He's percieved as an extreme liberal, so he picks a liberal. He says we need change, so he picks a man who has served in the senate for 36 years. Biden was carrying 2% of the states. Hillary was carrying 30% in every state. Hillary won every major state. 28% of democratic delegates wanted to see Hillary as the VP. 6% wanted to see Biden. Obama really doesn't seem to want to be president. His poll numbers have been declining and Clinton is exactly what he needed.

All McCain has do to is spit in the faces of the far right conservatives and pick Lieberman rather than Romney, and he'll be president. The far right fears Obama, and in the end will vote for McCain out of fear of Obama. Clinton supporters on the other hand will be looking at the option of a McCain/Lieberman ticket, and Clinton in 2012.

Which team do you think appeals more to moderates?


#41    Guardsman Bass

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 02:20 AM

BlindMessiah on Aug 23 2008, 07:13 PM, said:

Obama is struggling with white women over 30, so he picks a man.


Many of these women weren't going to support his candidacy anyways, and Biden at least has the "working class roots" on his side, plus a veritable legacy of legislative activity.

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He's percieved as an extreme liberal, so he picks a liberal.


Obama was going to be called an "extreme liberal" by the Republicans regardless of who he picked, even if he had done a Unity Ticket. They do that to every candidate, even centrist ones like Bill Clinton.

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He says we need change, so he picks a man who has served in the senate for 36 years.


You actually need to be able to pass legislation in the US in order for change to come about, and Biden will help immensely on that with his experience. Besides, Obama still has the ultimate say; Biden can only advise.

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Biden was carrying 2% of the states.


That's Biden as a presidential candidate among Democrats. Biden as legislator is much more popular and talented.

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Hillary was carrying 30% in every state. Hillary won every major state. 28% of democratic delegates wanted to see Hillary as the VP. 6% wanted to see Biden. Obama really doesn't seem to want to be president. His poll numbers have been declining and Clinton is exactly what he needed.


No, she's not. Although Biden has shot his mouth off in the past,  that's better than what Hillary would have brought - a running mate whom you could never fully have the last say with, for fear of pissing off the mindless PUMA cultist crowd. She'd be feathering her nest the entire time as she was working with Obama.

Besides, citing current polling as an indication of how the election will turn out at this point is absolutely ridiculous. You have no idea of what might come up in the next three months, not to mention the effect Hillary Clinton might have as VP only. Then there's the whole "energize the Republicans again".

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All McCain has do to is spit in the faces of the far right conservatives and pick Lieberman rather than Romney, and he'll be president. The far right fears Obama, and in the end will vote for McCain out of fear of Obama. Clinton supporters on the other hand will be looking at the option of a McCain/Lieberman ticket, and Clinton in 2012.


Oh, please. You think Clinton voters like Lieberman, the man who got re-elected by defecting from the Democratic Party then winning by saying he would caucus with them? That's not to mention that Lieberman will piss off more than merely the "far right" conservatives; Lieberman is pro-choice and generally Democratic on almost everything except foreign affairs.

Besides, I think the threat of a horde of Clinton voters flooding over to McCain is overrated. Clinton was going to lose many of these voters (the so-called Reagan "Democrats") anyways come the general election against McCain, and the diehard folks like PUMA who are threatening to vote for him managed to raise, what, a pathetic $50,000 as David Schuster pointed out in an interview with one of them?

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Which team do you think appeals more to moderates?


Let's see. I can pick the inspiring Democratic black candidate who promises a better America and who will do it with the help of one of the most experienced and able legislators in Congress - or I can pick the war-mongering, temperamental old "maverick" who has spent the past 6 years coddling the people he once condemned who will fight with a man who once ran on the Democratic ticket with Al Gore back on 2000, and isn't exactly repentant about it. Tough choice.  rolleyes.gif

On a side note, I don't know why so many of the Hillary cultists are rejoicing at the thought of McCain winning and Hillary running again in 2012, especially in light of the deep incompetence and lack of leadership that she showed in the 2008 Democratic primaries. Do they somehow think it will be easier to run against a Presidential incumbent with all the advantages that brings, leading a group of de-moralized Democrats after they had snatched defeat from the jaws of victory?


"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours." -Sir Charles Napier

"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted."  — D.H. Lawrence

#42    BlindMessiah

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 02:32 AM

Guardsman Bass on Aug 24 2008, 03:20 AM, said:

Obama was going to be called an "extreme liberal" by the Republicans regardless of who he picked, even if he had done a Unity Ticket. They do that to every candidate, even centrist ones like Bill Clinton.

Yes, they would label anyone that. That is true. But I as a moderate also view him as fairly radical.

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That's Biden as a presidential candidate among Democrats. Biden as legislator is much more popular and talented.

He may be more talented, but I wouldn't call him popular.

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No, she's not. Although Biden has shot his mouth off in the past,  that's better than what Hillary would have brought - a running mate whom you could never fully have the last say with, for fear of pissing off the mindless PUMA cultist crowd. She'd be feathering her nest the entire time as she was working with Obama.

That's a matter of oppinion. We'll have to wait and see how it turns out.

Quote

Besides, citing current polling as an indication of how the election will turn out at this point is absolutely ridiculous. You have no idea of what might come up in the next three months, not to mention the effect Hillary Clinton might have as VP only. Then there's the whole "energize the Republicans again".

Every republican I've spoken with has said they'd prefer Hillary in office over any of the other democratic candidates.

Quote

Oh, please. You think Clinton voters like Lieberman, the man who got re-elected by defecting from the Democratic Party then winning by saying he would caucus with them? That's not to mention that Lieberman will piss off more than merely the "far right" conservatives; Lieberman is pro-choice and generally Democratic on almost everything except foreign affairs.

Of course they don't like him. But who do you think they'll dislike more? Lieberman or Romney? I honestly don't believe the right will vote against McCain no matter who he picks. They'll just whine a lot.

QUOTE
Let's see. I can pick the inspiring Democratic black candidate who promises a better America and who will do it with the help of one of the most experienced and able legislators in Congress - or I can pick the war-mongering, temperamental old "maverick" who has spent the past 6 years coddling the people he once condemned who will fight with a man who once ran on the Democratic ticket with Al Gore back on 2000, and isn't exactly repentant about it. Tough choice.  rolleyes.gif

Let's see. You're a liberal who supports Obama. You're looking at this through a rose colored glass. As a moderate myself I don't know who I'll vote for... neither party represents my views.

QUOTE
On a side note, I don't know why so many of the Hillary cultists are rejoicing at the thought of McCain winning and Hillary running again in 2012, especially in light of the deep incompetence and lack of leadership that she showed in the 2008 Democratic primaries. Do they somehow think it will be easier to run against a Presidential incumbent with all the advantages that brings, leading a group of de-moralized Democrats after they had snatched defeat from the jaws of victory?

I don't have the answer to that. I'm not a Clinton cultist.


#43    Guardsman Bass

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 02:40 AM

BlindMessiah on Aug 23 2008, 08:32 PM, said:

Yes, they would label anyone that. That is true. But I as a moderate also view him as fairly radical.


What's your definition of "political moderate"?

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He may be more talented, but I wouldn't call him popular.


He's very popular in Delaware (admittedly not a factor), but also popular in Pennsylvania (witness the reception he received in Scranton when they heard the news).

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That's a matter of oppinion. We'll have to wait and see how it turns out.


I don't think it is. Biden was a second- or third- tier candidate who almost certainly knew he was going to lose the primaries, and who is getting on the years anyways. Clinton is/was the second place candidate with a large following and strong ambitions to run again if possible. I think it is extremely likely that she would take steps during the Obama campaign to make sure she was well-positioned for the presidency in the future, and would be difficult to control precisely because of the above factors - Obama wouldn't be able to truly overrule her without facing political consequences, and he doesn't want a co-presidency.

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Every republican I've spoken with has said they'd prefer Hillary in office over any of the other democratic candidates.


They say that now. Would they say that if she was on the ticket with Obama?

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Of course they don't like him. But who do you think they'll dislike more? Lieberman or Romney? I honestly don't believe the right will vote against McCain no matter who he picks. They'll just whine a lot.


Lieberman, of course. Romney at least pretends to have Republican positions on things like abortion and the like - Lieberman doesn't even try. As for the Right, they don't need to vote "against" McCain come November; they simply have to stay home instead of being out there fighting for him, and the McCain campaign would suffer enormously (the recent Republican campaigns have heavily depended on the activism of Christian Right voters).

QUOTE
Let's see. You're a liberal who supports Obama. You're looking at this through a rose colored glass. As a moderate myself I don't know who I'll vote for... neither party represents my views.


Again, what are your views, and what is a "moderate" in your views? McCain is pretty conservative on almost every issue except immigration and the environment, the former of which he's shelved until further notice and the latter which seems to have been overridden by an intense desire to drill every and anywhere.

QUOTE
I don't have the answer to that. I'm not a Clinton cultist.


I wasn't calling you one, merely expressing an irritation I've had of late.


"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours." -Sir Charles Napier

"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted."  — D.H. Lawrence

#44    BlindMessiah

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 03:00 AM

I personally feel McCain is far more liberal than he is currently acting. He seems to be pandering to the religious right at the moment.

Edited by BlindMessiah, 24 August 2008 - 06:15 AM.


#45    Siara

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 03:03 AM


Delaware is, interestingly, not a heavily taxed state.  They don't have any sales tax, for example.  

It's true that Biden has a big mouth, but that doesn't bother me too much.  McCain has a big mouth too, and it doesn't bother me in McCain either.

It's interesting to hear that Biden is popular in Pennsylvania.  Is Arlen Specter in the running for McCain's VP?





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