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human torture


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#16    CosmicStaR

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 05:23 AM

Torture is ruthless and deserves no placement in policy what so ever!

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#17    Brighteyes

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 09:49 PM

paranormalguy on Aug 29 2008, 05:07 AM, said:

I do very well understand empathy by the way. So Brighteyes... I understand these things are crimes against human, that's obvious. A crime in the eyes of the ones who enforce it. But when did being born human MAKE us responsible to do what is considered right or proper? You're making it sound like it isn't a privilege but a responsibility. I'm sure people take the ability to do what's best for themselves and others for granted. And shouldn't they or should they? Apparently being born into this world a human is a gift. But everything that makes us human also hurts us and often others. All these emotions and "responsibilities" that come with being human drag us down. Now I'm not saying to go out raping and killing people, society has dug itself too deep into this hole. Just a few people dare to dig themselves back out. Also I'm not neccesarely blaming religion, though they do instigate some what. I find it disturbing that it is so common and taken so lightly the way that people act and think. Like humans were put on this earth and there fore are responsible for her. My post may have left you feeling sad, but it's the truth, well in my opinion...that's why I wrote it. But you can believe what you please, blame murder, rape and theft on "the devil" and say that people are inherently good, but that isn't the case. People are inherently bad. In the seventeen hundreds the church blamed werewolves for horrible things that happened. Well sooner or later that got ruled out, now it's being blamed on the devil. Something that can be proven or disproved. How convenient. Thge church didn't want to accept that people could do this, that a god could make something capable of this "horrific" things. Did my previous post leave you sad because of my blatent and apparently wrong point of view or because you realized just now what I realized long ago?

p.s. Doing bad things just because we can doesn't make it right, but doing it cause it feels good does.... NB
p.p.s Though it may sound like it I'm not into hedenism!


Hi paranormalguy,

I never said that you didn't understood empathy or you didn't recognize these things as criminal acts. Just want to make that clear. I even agree with most of your post. And while, yes, I do at times tend to have an "idealistic" view on life most of the time, and maybe that's part of the reason I believe that I do believe it is a reponsibility of us all to do what is proper and that we are resposible for this earth. But I'm not naive enough to believe we all will act accordingly. Frankly, most don't even bother. And that's what saddens me. Maybe we are inherently bad....but that doesn't mean we can't be more. And that which makes me human, all my emoitions and resposibilities, can help raise me up, and not just drag me down. What really seemed sad about your previous post is that it almost came across as a "that's just the way it is" kind of a situation so bother try to change. Should we just accept people you choose to commit such crimes because that's more natural and that's just the way it is?

And I'm going to assume that the whole "blame murder, rape and theft on "the devil" and say that people are inherently good" comment and the ones that followed are a result of someone else's comment because I never said anything of the sort, nor do I believe it. And I don't think what you "realized" is nothing people haven't thought or heard of before.

Sidenote: what hole has society dug itself into and how does one dig themselves out? PM with your opinion if you want. I'm just curious; you seem to have interesting opinions (and I mean that in a good way).

Edit: I was leaving work when I first replied. And yes I work in a cubicle and it sucks. disgust.gif

Edited by Brighteyes, 29 August 2008 - 11:52 PM.


#18    Sun Raven

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 07:31 PM

I certainly think the real question, in question here is:

Can a human being really deserve torture? Should a human being who has tortured others, deserve torture? And if so, should the torturer who tortured the other torturer, deserve torture? Don't you see?, what if torture is not always mindless?

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#19    Aubrienne_Ellyrias

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 06:05 PM

u guys mean sympathy?

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#20    Aubrienne_Ellyrias

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 06:15 PM

and as for why some people do these things. i'd say its mostly in your childhood. from my own experience when i was younger i used to get hit alot and treated like crap as a little kid. till i moved with my mom whn i was 10, but by that time i used to like torturing animals i remember i killed a fish and also a baby chiken and a bunny. and i wa sonly 8 then, after it i cried and felt bad for what i did,but in the moment it made me feel powerful, and what people used to do to me i wanted the little animals to feel my pain and i felt glad when thy were in pain and they couldnt defend themselves because it reminded me of me. no im not crazy or psychotic. but after i moved in with my mom she taught me many things about life. and the cruelty of torturing animals and everything else like that,
i'd say people who are like that is because they never get helped they just stayed in that phase and grow up in it and become what they are. i would never hurt an animal i feel so bad for what i did, but i was only 8 trust me your childhood has alot to do with your future and the way you think. and what to you may be right may be wrong for the rest. i can totaly put myself i those crazy peoples heads, but i choose not to and i chose not to become that way, its horrible thanks t0 my mom she changed me and she never hit me and the rest of my years are good =]   idk i was thinking maybe you'd liek to see that point of view i think if i hadnt met my real mom ever i would be crazy by this time and have klled someone by now. its crazy and somepeople dont understand it and wont when they read this, but yeah?

Were not IT..were just the other side, the empty unimportant consiquence trying to be a problem and solve itself..we are stuck, we are shadows, an echo of reality.

#21    LogicalPiccolo

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 09:58 PM

Lost Souls on Sep 10 2008, 11:05 AM, said:

u guys mean sympathy?


No...pretty sure they mean empathy. Though sympathy is pretty important too.

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#22    Fenzo

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 04:16 PM

This all makes me wonder how screwed up this world would be if we didn't have any laws and never heard anything of "The Ten Commandments"
Do not kill, no not steal etc
We're all used to living in a world with rules to follow.
This effects the way you grow up and get educated since childhood

Imagine what the world would be without it, no punishments for killing etc, which makes it look normal
And as said before, psychopaths mostly have a screwed up childhood.
We'd grow up as a psychopath =o


But yeah, I myself wouldn't ever be able to torture or kill someone..

Read somewhere that a tumor in your head can also effect social behaviour and such, also giving you urges to rape people or kill them. As well schizophrenia, so there are a lot of reasons why people can bring themself to kill others..but torture!
Thats way worse and it sickens me XD

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#23    morrigan

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 12:05 AM

paranormalguy on Aug 28 2008, 09:52 AM, said:

START  [WARNING * MAY BE CONTROVERSIAL OR TAKEN THE WRONG WAY]  START
[I don't intend to start a fight or argue with anyone, this is the way I look at it and don't try to change or influence my point of view...I've heard it all!]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread so I can't be sure if some one has already said this, but I'm sure that all the things you claim are "against human nature" are in fact some of the most natural things left that anyone does anymore. Rape, murder and torture all stem from traits that every human has, those being greed and a want for pleasure. What humans have become is so un-natural that it disguists me. Sharing, being considerate, holding back urges, waiting for some one to say "yes". All these things are just soooooooo damn un-natural. Rarely if ever found in nature. So though they may be against many peoples common interest and there morality in the big scheme of things they're more natural than a human spending eight hours a day making spread sheets in a 10 x 10 cubical on a computer. Now I agree with you on the topic of holding people in dungeons for years, that is against all nature. But in my opinion murder, rape, abuse and torture for sport are all natural. Before religion came and told us what was right these were all natural. (nothing against religion, I guess it was done with best intentions {kind of} but none-the-less religion has got us playing a game we never really agreed to ourselves) And I just glanced over a thread and saw the word "Psychopath". People who are insane or supposedly sick or defficient in some manner of the mind I believe are just people who could have just realized where they are and what they're doing...if that makes any sense. Anyways, sorry for the long post but I had to get this off my back.

Relgious Agenda/intent DOESN'T = Human nature

END  [WARNING * MAY BE CONTROVERSIAL OR TAKEN THE WRONG WAY]  END


edit: Now looking back on this the term "Human Nature", it could be a pretty broad term. And one could argue that human nature now isn't neccesarily what human nature was 100 or 1000 years ago. I don't, but just thought I'd bring that up.

edit 2: To Shankpin - You say people who can cut people up like just another piece of meat are "anti-social" or something. So am I missing something?! What the hell are we, pieces of friggin meat. I think some one who thinks less of a cow or a pig than of a human is the one that's messed up. I feel pain, cow feels pain, I got family, cow got family. You've never met me so there fore you've got just as much of a personal and emotion connection to me as you do towards the cow (other than the fact that we're both human...big whoop.) So what makes me any different than the cow. Cow's have just as much reason and urge to live just as humans do. That's just confusing. You're calling these people evil! I'm calling them hungry and realistic. Peoples mind are so twisted now, and because the majority of the population is twisted the only people who've actually got it right in the head are the ones called crazy, they're the only sane ones left. But the government and church prosecute them and lock then in correctional facilities. SICK!!


Just to make sure I understand you properly, you are stating that killing and raping for fun, power, or whatever floats your boat is sane while respecting life and protecting one another is crazy? If that is truly what you feel then wow....just...wow.

For what it's worth, I am not religious in any way. You see, I was raised in an abusive environment. Not as bad as some, but far worse than most. I've been on the receiving end plenty of times. I know how it feels to be victimized. Sure, I could have become just like them. It would have been easy to do. But I chose not to. I saw the damage that your train of thought causes, and I chose not to be a part of it. Negativity breeds negativity. I refused to cause the fear and pain that I was subjected to in anyone else.

From your post I can surmise one of two things: that you have never been victimized at the whim of a cruel, sadistic person and lack the ability to empathize with those that have OR you have been victimized and see no point in breaking the cycle. Either way, I can only hope that time and perspective causes you to reflect and eventually change your mind.

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#24    Kazahel

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 07:24 AM

I think its more common than whats thought of. Especially since "torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted"..

So I think people only notice the more vile(extreme)kinds of torture, while at the same time we plod along abusing the same beggars in the street everyday. If you know what I mean.


#25    paranormalguy

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 07:39 PM

To morrigan: I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I clearly stated that I in no way encourage the said actions. But simply said that although thought by the majority to be wrong (thanks to religion and Gov't) they are still the most natural things that anyone does anymore.


#26    rek_nietzlawe

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 06:16 AM

Not many people really responded to the main question.

Torturers of this kind, they experience an endorphin rush deep in the gut. When they m********, they experience a gut-wrenching feeling in their stomach, its a mixture of being horrified, but at the same time there is an overwhelming excitement. The excitement part will dominate and allow the torturer to actually take pleasure in the sadism or domination of whatever it is they are torturing. Their imagination is also enjoying the victim's helplessness and comparing it to their own sense of power and control and while they experience this feeling, the more they will get that endorphin rush in the stomach and eventually they will climax.

Some torturers will cry after ejaculation because they know what they are doing is wrong, yet they are at the mercy of the sexual gratification it gives them to experience that particular kind of endorphin rush. It is a bigger rush for them than an ordinary sexual experience.

What is interesting, is that the divide line is very fine. Our world is full of sane people who openly practice sadism and masochism in everyday relationships. Those people are strong minded enough to know which side of the fence to stay on. The serial killers have had a different upbringing and so they are incapable of stopping themselves from going too far.

You have to wonder, if you have a group of people who run the world and are essentially above the law. What is stopping those people from becoming the evil torturers? Nothing. Hence you have corrupt priests, judges, police, politicians, businessmen etc.

And if people of this power and influence succeed in creating a totalitarian world. What is to stop them picking and choosing their victims freely like a piece of candy floss? Nothing.


#27    Alchera

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 03:13 PM

I'd like to think that everyone has remorse whether they think so or not, but I can't always say it's been proven true.

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#28    rek_nietzlawe

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 08:03 PM

Quote

You say people who can cut people up like just another piece of meat are "anti-social" or something. So am I missing something?! What the hell are we, pieces of friggin meat. I think some one who thinks less of a cow or a pig than of a human is the one that's messed up. I feel pain, cow feels pain, I got family, cow got family. You've never met me so there fore you've got just as much of a personal and emotion connection to me as you do towards the cow (other than the fact that we're both human...big whoop.) So what makes me any different than the cow. Cow's have just as much reason and urge to live just as humans do. That's just confusing. You're calling these people evil! I'm calling them hungry and realistic. Peoples mind are so twisted now, and because the majority of the population is twisted the only people who've actually got it right in the head are the ones called crazy, they're the only sane ones left. But the government and church prosecute them and lock then in correctional facilities. SICK!!


You are right, we are "pieces of meat." But if you asked every single person if they wanted to experience really horrific torture, maybe get sliced with razor blades a thousand times, tiny cuts that don't kill you, just hurt, then someone starts cutting your skin off, piece by piece, pouring salt on your cuts and continuing on and on for months, possibly even years on end.

My point is that none of us want to experience that kind of pain, so we as a majority agree that torture is outlawed. That makes sense to me.

Animals are a different species to us and as long as we kill them quickly and humanely, then that makes sense. We humans are the dominant species on the planet, we are supposed to eat animals, its nature. But torture is painful, whether it is inflicted on us or animals and has no place in this world.

Sadly, extreme amounts of torture and sadism is thriving in the world right now, to animals and people of all ages.


#29    Bunny Munro

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 06:42 PM

There is no single motive for it.

For some it's bitterness and jealousy, they feel that they have suffered and feel bitter about it and think that others should have to suffer the same cruelty. This doesn't just apply to cases like the molested molesting, it also apply to many of those who believe in an eye for an eye in instances like death penalties for murderers, particularly those who feel that their loved ones murderers deserve the same fate.

For others it's simply hatred.

For some it's simply to satisfy curiosity, coupled with moral nihilism.

Then there are the other cases that aren't so general, in my opinion it's a very individualized thing, I highly doubt you could point out a common motif in every scenario.

Grant me this at least, man differs more from man than man from beast....


#30    Crow Woman

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 06:44 PM

Humans are interesting creatures. They all differ in their nature, though we all share some of the same nature.

Now these people are just sick. Sick not only in the mind, but the soul. Something has told them that it is ok to do this to others. There will always be these kind of people in the world because we cannot really change what they think about and where their soul is placed. It is sad.


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