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Do You Favor Increased Fuel Prices?


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#16    Startraveler

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 02:56 PM

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No. Take whatever steps are necessary to get the price lower while at the same time invest more resources in developing alternative fuels.


You want to keep prices artificially low and just hope that alternatives catch on?



#17    MasterPo

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 05:59 PM

Startraveler on Aug 30 2008, 10:56 AM, said:

You want to keep prices artificially low and just hope that alternatives catch on?


The other side of the count is ever increasing prices w/o a realistic alternative?

Face it people: Just as some say drilling won't matter now because it will take 10 years to get the oil to market (if we had done this 10 years ago we'd have it now!) it's going to take 10 years at least to bring realistic alternative sources to market and make the switch on a national level.



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#18    Teej

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 10:56 PM

MasterPo on Aug 30 2008, 01:59 PM, said:

The other side of the count is ever increasing prices w/o a realistic alternative?

Face it people: Just as some say drilling won't matter now because it will take 10 years to get the oil to market (if we had done this 10 years ago we'd have it now!) it's going to take 10 years at least to bring realistic alternative sources to market and make the switch on a national level.


I'll take 10+ years with a solution over 10 years of wishful thinking and delaying the problem.

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#19    danielost

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 07:10 AM

IrishAidan on Aug 30 2008, 02:51 AM, said:

Well, not directly, but I dun think he'll propose it. Do you?



He already has been saying he will increase taxes on the oil companies to do the same thing.  Raise taxes on a company prices go up to pay for it.

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#20    Aztec Warrior

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 03:57 PM

MasterPo on Aug 30 2008, 12:59 PM, said:

The other side of the count is ever increasing prices w/o a realistic alternative?

Face it people: Just as some say drilling won't matter now because it will take 10 years to get the oil to market (if we had done this 10 years ago we'd have it now!) it's going to take 10 years at least to bring realistic alternative sources to market and make the switch on a national level.

I hope you realize that the 10 years to bring oil to market is a Democratic talking point and NOT a fact. Please, do a little research. I happen to own stock in several US small oil producting companies and I know for a fact is does not take 10 years. The longest portion probably involves the red tape, ie envirormental reports and leases. Once a geologist has determined a likely area for drilling, a rig is moved in and can begin producing a productive well in weeks or months.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/oil-drilling.htm



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#21    Startraveler

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 04:22 PM

Bush's own Department of Energy says:

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The projections in the OCS access case indicate that access to the Pacific, Atlantic, and eastern Gulf regions would not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030. Leasing would begin no sooner than 2012, and production would not be expected to start before 2017. Total domestic production of crude oil from 2012 through 2030 in the OCS access case is projected to be 1.6 percent higher than in the reference case, and 3 percent higher in 2030 alone, at 5.6 million barrels per day. For the lower 48 OCS, annual crude oil production in 2030 is projected to be 7 percent higher—2.4 million barrels per day in the OCS access case compared with 2.2 million barrels per day in the reference case (Figure 20). Because oil prices are determined on the international market, however, any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant.


Edited by Startraveler, 31 August 2008 - 04:23 PM.


#22    Guardsman Bass

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 04:29 PM

Aztec Warrior on Aug 31 2008, 09:57 AM, said:

I hope you realize that the 10 years to bring oil to market is a Democratic talking point and NOT a fact. Please, do a little research. I happen to own stock in several US small oil producting companies and I know for a fact is does not take 10 years. The longest portion probably involves the red tape, ie envirormental reports and leases. Once a geologist has determined a likely area for drilling, a rig is moved in and can begin producing a productive well in weeks or months.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/oil-drilling.htm


Assuming, of course, that they have a rig to do so. You're arguing this from an "all other things being equal"  perspective, when it's clearly not; assuming the Republicans get everything they want on this, you're going to have a delay while they try to scale up current offshore drilling to the larger possibilities that turn up after prospecting, caused by things such as moving around rigs, building new ones, and so forth.



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#23    Teej

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 05:25 PM

Aztec Warrior on Aug 31 2008, 11:57 AM, said:

I hope you realize that the 10 years to bring oil to market is a Democratic talking point and NOT a fact. Please, do a little research. I happen to own stock in several US small oil producting companies and I know for a fact is does not take 10 years. The longest portion probably involves the red tape, ie envirormental reports and leases. Once a geologist has determined a likely area for drilling, a rig is moved in and can begin producing a productive well in weeks or months.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/oil-drilling.htm


Give me a break, don't act like the Republicans are free from political games and are fighting for this so hard because it's a legitimate solution.  This whole issue is a Republican talking point to distract from other issues that they're severely lacking in.  

What's the best way to fight a better alternative energy plan?  Claim (lie) that we don't have to convert to alternative energy until later because we have a few oil reserves.

Edit:  Owning stock isn't very impressive as a credential.  But then again, that was coming from the guy who downplayed Obama's credentials here because he held an esteemed academic position at a university without a Ph.D.

Edited by Teej, 31 August 2008 - 05:40 PM.

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#24    MasterPo

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 07:13 PM

Aztec Warrior on Aug 31 2008, 11:57 AM, said:

I hope you realize that the 10 years to bring oil to market is a Democratic talking point and NOT a fact. Please, do a little research.


Yes I know that but the 10 year figure is what's being tossed around so may as well use that as the example because on one will believe it to be less (IMO we could probably have Alaska oil flowing to the pumps in 18-24 months or less).



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#25    Incorrigible1

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 07:17 PM

MasterPo on Sep 1 2008, 02:13 PM, said:

Yes I know that but the 10 year figure is what's being tossed around so may as well use that as the example because on one will believe it to be less (IMO we could probably have Alaska oil flowing to the pumps in 18-24 months or less).

Agreed entirely. Now with Gustaf hammering the off-shore rigs, oil futures are spiking. Ugh!

BTW, I asked a good Democrat (who sings the party line) in an earlier thread, just how much oil was leaked during Katrina. He chose not to respond.

The answer was zero.

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#26    MasterPo

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 07:24 PM

Incorrigible1 on Sep 1 2008, 03:17 PM, said:

The answer was zero.


Yup. Funny no one speaks of that.

Look, it's inevitable. Just as it's inevitable that someday there will be a plane fall from the sky for some mechanical or pilot error reason it's inevitable that someday somewhere oil will leak from a barge or tank or platform or something. That's not a reason to ban air travel or dismiss oil. The fact that airplanes don't fall from the sky every day or oil spill all the time is proof of how good the systems work.



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#27    Incorrigible1

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 07:29 PM

MasterPo on Sep 1 2008, 02:24 PM, said:

Yup. Funny no one speaks of that.

Look, it's inevitable. Just as it's inevitable that someday there will be a plane fall from the sky for some mechanical or pilot error reason it's inevitable that someday somewhere oil will leak from a barge or tank or platform or something. That's not a reason to ban air travel or dismiss oil. The fact that airplanes don't fall from the sky every day or oil spill all the time is proof of how good the systems work.

Yet with Gustaf hammering the off-shore production, subsequent futures gouging, the good Democratic party-singing posters here are probably grinning soundly, since gasoline prices are headed upwards, once again.

Odd logic. Gore inspired?


Edit: Reminds me of a man I once knew, who kept beating his head against a brick wall. I asked, "why."

He said, "Because it feels so good when I stop."

Edited by Incorrigible1, 01 September 2008 - 07:30 PM.

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#28    MasterPo

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 07:30 PM

Incorrigible1 on Sep 1 2008, 03:29 PM, said:

Yet with Gustaf hammering the off-shore production, subsequent futures gouging, the good Democratic party-singing posters here are probably grinning soundly, since gasoline prices are headed upwards, once again.

Odd logic. Gore inspired?



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#29    SRCivic98

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 08:13 PM

ohio traveler on Aug 30 2008, 10:44 AM, said:

No. Take whatever steps are necessary to get the price lower while at the same time invest more resources in developing alternative fuels.  Ask the over-the-road independent truck drivers if they like prices kept high. If you support the idea you'd probably get a lug wrench beating.

You're right there that's for sure. No one likes these prices we pay from day to day. If they do then they're probably the ones that's making the money off of the profit going into the stocks. I agree that the prices should or could be around two dollars a gallon or a dollar and fifty-five cents then we'd be alright. But at the same time, coming up with better ways to improve fuel efficenticy and also offering the choice for people to drive alternative fuel source type cars. If you give the people a choice then they'll take it. but don't kill your people just so you and the other rich scumbags of the USA can live in happiness knowing that they're the only ones that survived this crisis and they can run us over like we're just speed bumps in the road. If people stop driving their cars for two or three days and don't buy gas then there's a start too. But you have to work also, I understand that. Schools around here are packing two or three bus loads onto a bus, going to school less days, and some go less days but way, way! longer hours. Society can only take but so much before the system shuts down and begins to crash. People will eventually, lose control and then.....well then the rebellion against any form of government will start.

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#30    Incorrigible1

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 08:28 PM

SRCivic98 on Sep 1 2008, 03:13 PM, said:

You're right there that's for sure. No one likes these prices we pay from day to day. If they do then they're probably the ones that's making the money off of the profit going into the stocks. I agree that the prices should or could be around two dollars a gallon or a dollar and fifty-five cents then we'd be alright. But at the same time, coming up with better ways to improve fuel efficenticy and also offering the choice for people to drive alternative fuel source type cars. If you give the people a choice then they'll take it. but don't kill your people just so you and the other rich scumbags of the USA can live in happiness knowing that they're the only ones that survived this crisis and they can run us over like we're just speed bumps in the road. If people stop driving their cars for two or three days and don't buy gas then there's a start too. But you have to work also, I understand that. Schools around here are packing two or three bus loads onto a bus, going to school less days, and some go less days but way, way! longer hours. Society can only take but so much before the system shuts down and begins to crash. People will eventually, lose control and then.....well then the rebellion against any form of government will start.

While I agree with most of your posting, the class-envy and resentment I just can't get behind.

Because a person is more wealthy than you makes them "scumbags?" That they can "run you over like you're speed bumps?"

Wow, get your donkey to work and enjoy the American dream yourself, pal. "Rich" people, for the most part, worked damn hard to get where they're at.

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