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The next president of the USA


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#1    danielost

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 08:40 AM

The thing I keep hearing is how much experience everyone has or doesn't have as an executive.


I have been thinking about this a little.  The man in charge doesn't need to know much about anything.  He/she needs to have the ability to accept the blame as well as the glory of the decisions made well in office.  He/She will have enough advisers to make up for anything they lack in experience.


We don't need another president that signs or vetoes things without reading them.  Hillary's I voted for the war without reading the reports.  


Obama's I voted for this and then voted against it kind of stuff really doesn't add up to The buck stops here.


Yes Bush has problems here too specially the war in Iraq he micromanaged it until we almost lost the war.  Instead of taking the blame he fired some generals.

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#2    AztecInca

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 10:18 AM

danielost, what is the purpose of the thread? All I see is horrible grammar and your usual negative remarks about the democrats. Please when starting a thread about the upcoming US presidental election, base it upon an actual news article or story. However should you just wish to discuss a specific issue relating to the election, make sure it is on a clear, concise issue that will create a constructive and interesting discussion.

I will leave this thread open for now, so members can attempt to have a civil and constructive discussion on the leadership qualities of the presidental and vice-presidental nominees.


#3    MasterPo

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 03:15 PM

I think the OP is trying to say "What experience exactly is the 'right' experience for the job?"

If I'm correct, to answer that question I'd say someone who has experience being the top, singular person in charge and responsible for an outcome-based organization like a business. Good social skills and ability to be effective with in an organization is good too but you need to have been the buck-stops-here person on something that has a time frame, budget, and consequences for failure.

Being a member of a committee like the Senate isn't that experience.
Being a volunteer community organizer isn't that either.

Being a Mayor or Governor or Business head/CEO or at least military rank high enough to command and control others is that experience.


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#4    Startraveler

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 03:30 PM

Kudos on recognizing that (former governor) George W. Bush rarely takes responsibility for anything and certain doesn't have a "the buck stops here" mentality (note: "the buck stops here" is most associated with President Truman, a former senator).


#5    Mainpoint

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 03:37 PM

danielost on Sep 7 2008, 09:40 AM, said:

The thing I keep hearing is how much experience everyone has or doesn't have as an executive.


I have been thinking about this a little.  The man in charge doesn't need to know much about anything.  He/she needs to have the ability to accept the blame as well as the glory of the decisions made well in office.  He/She will have enough advisers to make up for anything they lack in experience.


We don't need another president that signs or vetoes things without reading them.  Hillary's I voted for the war without reading the reports.  


Obama's I voted for this and then voted against it kind of stuff really doesn't add up to The buck stops here.


Yes Bush has problems here too specially the war in Iraq he micromanaged it until we almost lost the war.  Instead of taking the blame he fired some generals.


We dont need no education---pink floyd

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#6    SQLserver

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 04:03 PM

Well you know, I'd say:
--At least taking a class at a university on the Constitution should be a MUST.
( And, of course, Obama TAUGHT the class!)
McCain?

--I'd also say having good experience in business is a must.
(Like Obama's BA)
McCain?

--Being a lawyer or knowing something about law should be a must too.
(Obama was a civil rights lawyer for years, and went to Harvard Law)
McCain?

--Most jobs look at your college grades and rankings for qualification. The most important job in the US should, too.
(Obama gaduated A212 out of T3829, beating the vast majority of Harvard students)
(McCain graduated 5th from the bottom of his class)

--I'd say at least some basic work helping the community and the common people should be neccessary, as many other jobs look for community service.
(Obama was a community organizer)
McCain?

--Definitely at least 10 years in government.
(Obama, McCain, and Biden all qualify.)
Palin?

--I'd say experience in foreign policy should be a must.
(Senate Obama is unique among Senators in that he serves on three of the four Senate Committees dealing with foreign policy issues including the Foreign Relations; Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs; and Veterans' Affairs committees and is the Chair of the Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Relations which is responsible fore U.S. relations with European countries, the European Union, and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (i.e., NATO).)
McCain serves on 1 of these.
Palin?
additionally, Obama service on the Foreign Relations committee has placed him in an unique position in that he is the Chair of the Subcommittee on European Relations and serves on the Subcommittees on African Affairs; East Asia and Pacific Affairs; and International Development and Foreign Assistance, Economic Affairs, and International Environmental Protection.

--I'd say extensive travel to foreign countries should be a must.
(Obama has also traveled extensively in his capacity as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee and has visited Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan in Asia; Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, and the Palestinian Territories in the Middle East; and Chad, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Kenya, and South Africa in Africa. Obama has also co-sponsored the "Lugar-Obama Act" with Republican Senator Richard Lugar who was Chairman of the Committee on Foreign Relations at the time. This act was a bi-partisan effort to increase U.S. security in terms of the elimination of conventional weapons and weapons of mass destruction.)
McCain? Well, he's been to Vietnam...
Palin? Perhaps she's been to Canada?



It seems to me that Obama has a HECK of a lot more experience then McCain.
We've just seen McCain participate in major scandals, create enemies for himself, cheat on his wife, divorce her, and flunk out of college.

He has barely NONE of the experience one should need to become president.

Cheers,
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#7    MasterPo

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 04:30 PM

sqlserver on Sep 7 2008, 12:03 PM, said:

Well you know, I'd say:
--At least taking a class at a university on the Constitution should be a MUST.
( And, of course, Obama TAUGHT the class!)
McCain?


Depends on the school. Some schools are teaching very odd things about the Constiution.

Quote

--I'd also say having good experience in business is a must.
(Like Obama's BA)
McCain?


A BA in Business is nothing. Certainly not equivalent to having actually run a business.

Though if we go by that standard there are very few candidates who would pass the test!

Quote

--Being a lawyer or knowing something about law should be a must too.
(Obama was a civil rights lawyer for years, and went to Harvard Law)
McCain?


The country hates lawyers. The are not viewed as trust worthy and honorable people.

Quote

--Most jobs look at your college grades and rankings for qualification. The most important job in the US should, too.
(Obama gaduated A212 out of T3829, beating the vast majority of Harvard students)
(McCain graduated 5th from the bottom of his class)


Yes and no. Mostly just your first job. After several years it's your experiences that count much more than your grades.

Quote

--I'd say at least some basic work helping the community and the common people should be neccessary, as many other jobs look for community service.
(Obama was a community organizer)
McCain?


Why?

QUOTE
--Definitely at least 10 years in government.
(Obama, McCain, and Biden all qualify.)
Palin?


So much for having a fresh perspective and not being influenced by the establishment!

QUOTE
--I'd say experience in foreign policy should be a must.
(Senate Obama is unique among Senators in that he serves on three of the four Senate Committees dealing with foreign policy issues including the Foreign Relations; Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs; and Veterans' Affairs committees and is the Chair of the Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Relations which is responsible fore U.S. relations with European countries, the European Union, and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (i.e., NATO).)
McCain serves on 1 of these.
Palin?


In case you haven't noticed Alaska is surrounded by foreign powers! (Canada to the East and South, Russia to the West). I am sure the Alaksa government has deals with Canadian authorities and probably some Russian as well (for offshore fishing, safe passage rights, etc)

QUOTE
additionally, Obama service on the Foreign Relations committee has placed him in an unique position in that he is the Chair of the Subcommittee on European Relations and serves on the Subcommittees on African Affairs; East Asia and Pacific Affairs; and International Development and Foreign Assistance, Economic Affairs, and International Environmental Protection.


Have your *** in a committee chair is faaaaaar from the same as being on the ground in a foreign country dealing with the powers there. Besides, of his 140 days actually in the Senate how much experience can Obama really have with anything?!

QUOTE
--I'd say extensive travel to foreign countries should be a must.
(Obama has also traveled extensively in his capacity as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee and has visited Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan in Asia; Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, and the Palestinian Territories in the Middle East; and Chad, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Kenya, and South Africa in Africa. Obama has also co-sponsored the "Lugar-Obama Act" with Republican Senator Richard Lugar who was Chairman of the Committee on Foreign Relations at the time. This act was a bi-partisan effort to increase U.S. security in terms of the elimination of conventional weapons and weapons of mass destruction.)


Can you document any of these "extensive" travels during his 140 days?



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#8    SQLserver

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 08:50 PM

Quote

Depends on the school. Some schools are teaching very odd things about the Constiution.

Of course. After all, colleges ARE liberal atheist conspiracies!
Seriously though. Obama got his degree at Harvard(considered 1st or 2nd best school in the country), and he taught at the University of Chicago.

So, this time I'll phrase it in a question to make it easy, as last time you(accidentally, I assume) missed the point.
Do you agree that an education in the constitution should be a requirement, or at least is extremely useful for a president?

Quote

A BA in Business is nothing. Certainly not equivalent to having actually run a business.

Oh, sorry, Obama's done that too.
After graduating he worked at the Business International Corporation and New York Public Interest Research Group.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles...finance/?page=1
http://www.marquiswhoswho.com/products/WAprodinfo.asp

He also was the director of the Developing Communities Project. During his three years as the DCP's director, its staff grew from 1 to 13 and its annual budget grew from $70,000 to $400,000, with accomplishments including helping set up a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants' rights organization in Altgeld Gardens

In 1993 Obama joined Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, a 12-attorney law firm specializing in civil rights litigation and neighborhood economic development, where he was an associate for three years from 1993 to 1996

Quote

The country hates lawyers. The are not viewed as trust worthy and honorable people.

LOL, nice reply. This time, actually reply to the point.
Do you agree that an education in our jurisdiction would be beneficial to a president?

Quote

Yes and no. Mostly just your first job. After several years it's your experiences that count much more than your grades.

And, as I've explained many times, McCain doesn't have ANY experience outside the military and the senate.

Quote

Why?

Because Community work helps build teamwork skills, and you really get to know the common man. It also shows you are hard working and you care.

QUOTE
So much for having a fresh perspective and not being influenced by the establishment!

I'm a HECK of a lot more scared that Palin were influence the establishment rather then vice versa. She's a lot scarier.

QUOTE
In case you haven't noticed Alaska is surrounded by foreign powers! (Canada to the East and South, Russia to the West). I am sure the Alaksa government has deals with Canadian authorities and probably some Russian as well (for offshore fishing, safe passage rights, etc)

If "Surronded" you mean: "Shares a border with Canada and is near Russia" then you've got Alaska.
If you are serious with this, then please point to ACTUAL examples of Palin dealing with such.

QUOTE
Can you document any of these "extensive" travels during his 140 days?

If you are talking about time in a government position, then that's 12 YEARS.
If you are talking about time as a US Senator, then that's 3 YEARS.

Cheers,





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