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Professor Slams Biden In Scathing Editorial


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#16    Caesar

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 08:13 AM

Fluffybunny on Sep 10 2008, 12:40 PM, said:

So(refer to my bolding) does that mean that everyone is finally on the same page that bush lied and manipulated his way into Iraq? I mean if you are using this article to justify your point, you must finally see the light of bushs' lies about iraq...thats not my opinion, but the opinion of the article you posted...

How could Bush make the whole thing up if people like Biden have been saying Iraq had wmd before Bush was president?


#17    supercar

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 03:22 AM

Caesar on Sep 20 2008, 03:13 AM, said:

How could Bush make the whole thing up if people like Biden have been saying Iraq had wmd before Bush was president?


Exactly. Biden was calling for military action against Iraq two years before Bush was even President.



#18    Guardsman Bass

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 05:58 AM

One thing to keep in mind is that the Democrats in the Senate and House only had access to the information provided to them by the CIA (which greatly exaggerated the threat), plus whatever outside sources they could collect. They may have genuinely thought Iraq was a real threat. That said, there are other reason why the Iraq War should not have been conducted, and Obama pointed out one of them - the abandonment of the Afghan campaign.

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#19    Caesar

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 01:51 AM

supercar on Sep 26 2008, 11:22 PM, said:

Exactly. Biden was calling for military action against Iraq two years before Bush was even President.

These are the facts that Fluffybunny and other Liberals here on U.M. won't discuss. or Bill Clinton and his air attacks for WMD and other U.N. res violations. but they still blame Bush. its makes no sense at all!


#20    ninjadude

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 03:44 AM

Caesar on Sep 27 2008, 08:51 PM, said:

These are the facts that Fluffybunny and other Liberals here on U.M. won't discuss. or Bill Clinton and his air attacks for WMD and other U.N. res violations. but they still blame Bush. its makes no sense at all!


It makes plenty of sense. Bush invaded. No one else did. You can't weasel out of it.



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#21    Leonardo

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 04:09 AM

Caesar on Sep 20 2008, 09:13 AM, said:

How could Bush make the whole thing up if people like Biden have been saying Iraq had wmd before Bush was president?



supercar on Sep 27 2008, 04:22 AM, said:

Exactly. Biden was calling for military action against Iraq two years before Bush was even President.


This appears to be a curious phenomenon of Republicans and Democrats that their memories of events seem to be linked only to the previous Government of the opposite camp.

Do I dare mention Bush Snr.?

Remember him, the President before Clinton? The one who originally went to war with Iraq (legally that is)?

After Saddam was declared persona non grata by this (Bush Snr's) administration there was a concerted effort by US Intelligence Agencies to continue to discredit his regime - including the building of the case for the nonexistent WMD's (of course, the Saddam regime did have chemical shells for ground artillery - and possibly biological, but there is no evidence they had delivery systems capable of reaching beyond their own border). The Clinton administration had access to this 'information' of course - as did the Bush Jnr administration. However, the US WMD propaganda campaign against Saddam began largely with the Bush Snr administration (although it may have begun under Regan).

Edited by Leonardo, 28 September 2008 - 04:10 AM.

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#22    Fluffybunny

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 05:21 PM

Caesar on Sep 27 2008, 08:51 PM, said:

These are the facts that Fluffybunny and other Liberals here on U.M. won't discuss. or Bill Clinton and his air attacks for WMD and other U.N. res violations. but they still blame Bush. its makes no sense at all!

Good try, but I am not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination. I am not a democrat or a republican. I do like the generalization you make though... I simply dont like liars...

answer one question, which president invaded? Even after inspectors found no weapons?

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#23    Caesar

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 09:46 PM

Fluffybunny on Sep 28 2008, 01:21 PM, said:

Good try, but I am not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination. I am not a democrat or a republican. I do like the generalization you make though... I simply dont like liars...

answer one question, which president invaded? Even after inspectors found no weapons?

December 16, 1998 Clinton ordered air stricks against Iraq

"Saddam (Hussein) must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons," Clinton said

"Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces," Clinton said.

"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton.
Source and full report

dispite all this you and many others on this forum insist that Bush made the whole Iraq and WMD yet its been reported before Bush was even elected. inspectors never had full access to all sites of intrests, even under Clinton

So how can you claim Bush made all this up if our resource have been saying he had these WMD years before Bush was elected?


#24    Caesar

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 09:49 PM

ninjadude on Sep 27 2008, 11:44 PM, said:

It makes plenty of sense. Bush invaded. No one else did. You can't weasel out of it.

With the help of Congress and people like Joe Biden who has been saying years before Bush was elected President that Suddam had WMD.


#25    Fluffybunny

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 02:24 AM

Caesar on Sep 28 2008, 04:46 PM, said:

December 16, 1998 Clinton ordered air stricks against Iraq

"Saddam (Hussein) must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons," Clinton said

"Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces," Clinton said.

"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton.
Source and full report

dispite all this you and many others on this forum insist that Bush made the whole Iraq and WMD yet its been reported before Bush was even elected. inspectors never had full access to all sites of intrests, even under Clinton

So how can you claim Bush made all this up if our resource have been saying he had these WMD years before Bush was elected?

There was a president that had a plaque on his desk that said "the buck stops here". He felt he was ultimately responsible for his actions. Times have changed since then, now presidents work hard to pass the buck when there were reports that there were no WMDs(anymore) and no terrorist links, but they go ahead anyway in questionable evidence.

So hey, as I said I am not a democrat, so throwing "but a democrat said"... doesnt work on me. it means squat. If a democrat is lying then they are lying, if they are being told a lie(as they have been by parsed intelligence), then that needs to be dealt with too.

saddam had wmd's at one point. There was plenty of evidence that it wasnt the case anymore, but that evidence was overlooked...

So bush went in with flawed intelligence and a flawed plan. He screwed up from the getgo, from the ground up. A lot of people died that didnt have to. People I served with and cared about. There used to be a time that a man would take responsibility for his mistakes, but not anymore, not this guy...and he has a whole army of people to make excuses for him...

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#26    Caesar

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 02:32 AM

Fluffybunny on Sep 28 2008, 10:24 PM, said:

There was a president that had a plaque on his desk that said "the buck stops here". He felt he was ultimately responsible for his actions. Times have changed since then, now presidents work hard to pass the buck when there were reports that there were no WMDs(anymore) and no terrorist links, but they go ahead anyway in questionable evidence.

So hey, as I said I am not a democrat, so throwing "but a democrat said"... doesnt work on me. it means squat. If a democrat is lying then they are lying, if they are being told a lie(as they have been by parsed intelligence), then that needs to be dealt with too.

saddam had wmd's at one point. There was plenty of evidence that it wasnt the case anymore, but that evidence was overlooked...

So bush went in with flawed intelligence and a flawed plan. He screwed up from the getgo, from the ground up. A lot of people died that didnt have to. People I served with and cared about. There used to be a time that a man would take responsibility for his mistakes, but not anymore, not this guy...and he has a whole army of people to make excuses for him...

I'm not trying to throw the idea that just because a democrat said this that it makes it right but the flawed intelligence was there way before Bush was elected. Biden used many of the info from the Clinton admin


#27    Fluffybunny

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 02:37 AM

Caesar on Sep 28 2008, 09:32 PM, said:

I'm not trying to throw the idea that just because a democrat said this that it makes it right but the flawed intelligence was there way before Bush was elected. Biden used many of the info from the Clinton admin

You do realize that there was a lot of information that came up that showed that there was not wmd's after clintons time? The intelligence didnt stop, and the intelligence didnt always show wmd's to be in iraq. There may very well have been parsed security to make it look like there was more of a risk than there was.

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#28    Caesar

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 02:43 AM

Fluffybunny on Sep 28 2008, 10:37 PM, said:

You do realize that there was a lot of information that came up that showed that there was not wmd's after clintons time? The intelligence didnt stop, and the intelligence didnt always show wmd's to be in iraq. There may very well have been parsed security to make it look like there was more of a risk than there was.

LOL please this is pure nonsense so as soon as Bush was elected they were no WMD


#29    Fluffybunny

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 02:53 AM

Caesar on Sep 28 2008, 09:43 PM, said:

LOL please this is pure nonsense so as soon as Bush was elected they were no WMD

There actually was intelligence gathered that lead to the conclusion that there was no wmd's...but bush.s people decided to not rely on it and instead went for the intelligence that said he did. I dont expect you to believe it(as it appears you already have your mind set), but it is documented. Its out there if you want to read about it...

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#30    Caesar

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 02:55 AM

Fluffybunny on Sep 28 2008, 10:53 PM, said:

There actually was intelligence gathered that lead to the conclusion that there was no wmd's...but bush.s people decided to not rely on it and instead went for the intelligence that said he did. I dont expect you to believe it(as it appears you already have your mind set), but it is documented. Its out there if you want to read about it...

Was this information locked away from Joe Biden and other members in Congress?





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