91 replies to this topic

[Aztec Warrior]

BlindMessiah on Sep 12 2008, 01:09 PM, said:

You are so delusional. They're slimy politicians. Don't you get it. Not one of those four is a class act.

McCain is a hot-headed, rich senator who is using every smear tactic in the book to win the election.

Palin is a religious nut who jumped to power because of one man's pick and is now playing a helpless victim to get votes.

Obama is a another rich, elitest senator who is a great speaker and is easily manipulating the masses.

Biden is... not really a central issue... poor Biden...

We are all doomed. I going to brush up on my Russian now.

[Gustavo]

BlindMessiah on Sep 12 2008, 01:42 PM, said:

He went to church twice a month so maybe he's telling the truth. Let's face it, the man has wanted to be president for years. He went to the church for political power in Chicago and as Giuliani pointed out last night, voted present on many different votes in the senate. He's been setting himself up to be president so I don't take his connections to Wright very seriously.

So for 20 years, twice a month, Obama sat in to listen to Wright and you are saying he is telling the truth with respect to not knowing Wright was a racist, America hater? Wow, now that is a stretch.  Does that mean he didn’t have a clue about who Ayers was also?  I believe he knew exactly who and what Wright is. Remember he is so smart. You can’t have it both ways, He is either a dolt who couldn’t even identify hate and racism or he is brilliant.  I take his association with Wright as very serious. Just as I take his wife’s word that she has not been proud of her country until her husband ran for office. Her statement fits right in with 20 years of listening to Wright.  Personally, one of the important qualifications to be president should be patriotism. Ayers is an America hater and so is Wright.  Those who support such men are suspect as to their true allegiance.

[BlindMessiah]

Gustavo on Sep 14 2008, 06:12 PM, said:

So for 20 years, twice a month, Obama sat in to listen to Wright and you are saying he is telling the truth with respect to not knowing Wright was a racist, America hater? Wow, now that is a stretch.  Does that mean he didn’t have a clue about who Ayers was also?  I believe he knew exactly who and what Wright is. Remember he is so smart. You can’t have it both ways, He is either a dolt who couldn’t even identify hate and racism or he is brilliant.  I take his association with Wright as very serious. Just as I take his wife’s word that she has not been proud of her country until her husband ran for office. Her statement fits right in with 20 years of listening to Wright.  Personally, one of the important qualifications to be president should be patriotism. Ayers is an America hater and so is Wright.  Those who support such men are suspect as to their true allegiance.

If you're going to quote Sean Hannity you need to quote him as the source. But seriously, ignoring the staw man arguments you provided...

Based on his statement, we can conclude that he heard 480 of Wright's 960+ sermons. The clips that were played were taken from less than five sermons. Obama missed over 480 sermons. So mathematically speaking, is is highly probably that he did not see these sermons. Now, as I was saying before, he most likely attended that church for political reasons. So even if he did hear these sermons, there is a good chance he did not agree with them and stayed anyway for political ends.

[Incorrigible1]

BlindMessiah on Sep 14 2008, 02:45 PM, said:

If you're going to quote Sean Hannity you need to quote him as the source. But seriously, ignoring the staw man arguments you provided...

Based on his statement, we can conclude that he heard 480 of Wright's 960+ sermons. The clips that were played were taken from less than five sermons. Obama missed over 480 sermons. So mathematically speaking, is is highly probably that he did not see these sermons. Now, as I was saying before, he most likely attended that church for political reasons. So even if he did hear these sermons, there is a good chance he did not agree with them and stayed anyway for political ends.

Did BHO register "present" in those sermons?

[Gustavo]

BlindMessiah on Sep 14 2008, 12:45 PM, said:

If you're going to quote Sean Hannity you need to quote him as the source. But seriously, ignoring the staw man arguments you provided...

Based on his statement, we can conclude that he heard 480 of Wright's 960+ sermons. The clips that were played were taken from less than five sermons. Obama missed over 480 sermons. So mathematically speaking, is is highly probably that he did not see these sermons. Now, as I was saying before, he most likely attended that church for political reasons. So even if he did hear these sermons, there is a good chance he did not agree with them and stayed anyway for political ends.

I didn’t quote Sean Hannity. They were my thoughts. I guess great minds think alike. You are almost comical with your continued labeling of the actual facts as straw man arguments. Its ridiculous. Nothing personal but thats just silly.  I brought up facts as reported by most news agencies, for or against Obama. Character counts to me when I’m voting.  Are you so naive that you think that 480 sermons over 20 years wouldn’t reveal Wrights racism and America hate? You seriously think that the clips we have seen are the only instances of his racist America hate speak? Did Obama know that Farrakhan was a speaker there? Do you think Obama knows what Farrakhan is about? Please dont try your dishonest rationale with me. Making up your own data like he only went for political reasons. Where do you get off making that up and then presenting it as the closer for your argument. You gotta do better than that if you actually want to debate this.  It’s a fact that Obama attended a racist, America hating church.  It is all of our responsibility to use reason in our voting decisions, not made up facts like you are doing trying to paint a more palatable picture.

[BlindMessiah]

Incorrigible1 on Sep 14 2008, 08:49 PM, said:

Did BHO register "present" in those sermons?

If his voting present doesn't show you what kind of man he is, nothing will.

[BlindMessiah]

Gustavo on Sep 14 2008, 08:57 PM, said:

I didn’t quote Sean Hannity. They were my thoughts. I guess great minds think alike.

I know you didn't. I said I wasn't being serious. Lighten up.

Quote

You are almost comical with your continued labeling of the actual facts as straw man arguments. Its ridiculous. Nothing personal but thats just silly.

The staw man argument you made that I referred to was,

Quote

Does that mean he didn’t have a clue about who Ayers was also?

I clearly didn't mention Ayers.

Quote

I brought up facts as reported by most news agencies, for or against Obama. Character counts to me when I’m voting.  Are you so naive that you think that 480 sermons over 20 years wouldn’t reveal Wrights racism and America hate? You seriously think that the clips we have seen are the only instances of his racist America hate speak? Did Obama know that Farrakhan was a speaker there? Do you think Obama knows what Farrakhan is about? Please dont try your dishonest rationale with me. Making up your own data like he only went for political reasons. Where do you get off making that up and then presenting it as the closer for your argument. You gotta do better than that if you actually want to debate this.  It’s a fact that Obama attended a racist, America hating church.  It is all of our responsibility to use reason in our voting decisions, not made up facts like you are doing trying to paint a more palatable picture.

You are misrepresenting me. I don't support Barack Obama. I simply don't believe him to be a religious extremist. I believe him to be a power hungry manipulator who is willing to associate with religious extremists so he can achieve the power he so greatly desires. I believe you are misfocusing your attention, on his associations, rather than the things that are actually wrong with him.

[libertyworld]

BlindMessiah on Sep 14 2008, 12:45 PM, said:

So even if he did hear these [about 500!?] sermons, there is a good chance he did not agree with them and stayed anyway for political ends.

If that is the case, then he is a phony, spineless worm in the extreme.
Such a prostituting of ones integrity, character, principles, self respect, manhood and very soul at the alter of expediency constitutes a scathing indictment of one fitness to be trusted with even the slightest access to elected office.
Nobody could attend about 500 seething rants disguised as sermons from such a hate mongering slave-master wacko as Wright and not know very clearly where said nutcase stood.
If, as BHO claims, he did attend for so long and still did not know where Wright stood, then he has what must be the poorest judgment ever evidenced in any such election in our history.
It has to be one of those two.
Either one could only come from the last person any sane country would support as a leader.
Either one more than earns these bitter ingrates a place on the ash heap of history in the eyes of real Americans.
...And gets them filed under "mental cases" in my book.

[BlindMessiah]

libertyworld on Sep 14 2008, 09:17 PM, said:

If that is the case, then he is a phony, spineless worm in the extreme.
Such a prostituting of ones integrity, character, principles, self respect, manhood and very soul at the alter of expediency constitutes a scathing indictment of one fitness to be trusted with even the slightest access to elected office.

That's what politics has come to be about sir.

[libertyworld]

BlindMessiah on Sep 14 2008, 02:18 PM, said:

That's what politics has come to be about sir.

So the Obama's are no worse than any others, is that it?
More of the usual moral equivalency card?
Speak for yourself...
I can only pity one who embraces such unbridled cynicism.
There are some good, adult people in this world and some of them are even in politics.
Neither McCain nor Palin would ever in a thousand years lower themselves to such a state of rank dishonor and moral poverty.

[Startraveler]

Quote

Neither McCain nor Palin would ever in a thousand years lower themselves to such a state of rank dishonor and moral poverty.

You almost had me! It's tough to spot humor in online discussion forums, you should consider including one of those laughing emoticons after a statement like this.

[BlindMessiah]

libertyworld on Sep 14 2008, 10:47 PM, said:

So the Obama's are no worse than any others, is that it?
More of the usual moral equivalency card?
Speak for yourself...
I can only pity one who embraces such unbridled cynicism.
There are some good, adult people in this world and some of them are even in politics.
Neither McCain nor Palin would ever in a thousand years lower themselves to such a state of rank dishonor and moral poverty.

Sir, McCain has successfully deluded you.

There certainly are good people in politics. They simply never become president.

[Gustavo]

BlindMessiah on Sep 14 2008, 02:14 PM, said:

I know you didn't. I said I wasn't being serious. Lighten up.


The staw man argument you made that I referred to was,

I clearly didn't mention Ayers.


You are misrepresenting me. I don't support Barack Obama. I simply don't believe him to be a religious extremist. I believe him to be a power hungry manipulator who is willing to associate with religious extremists so he can achieve the power he so greatly desires. I believe you are misfocusing your attention, on his associations, rather than the things that are actually wrong with him.

OK Ill lighten up...   Actually this is fun and if I made it sound other than fun I appologize. To the point:  His associations ARE one of the things that are wrong with him. My mention of Ayers absent your bringing him up doesnt qualify as strawman argument. I brought him up as corroborative of my position, not to misrepresent yours. Had I switched all my comments to be about Ayers, and somehow acted as though that is who you were talking about, you would have had a point.   If we went with your pseudo description, ("I clearly didn't mention Ayers") I couldnt mention anything that you hadnt already mentioned and visa versa. That would be dull wouldnt it.


Great post Libertyworld. Stinging and thoughtful. just the way I like em!  

Edited by Gustavo, 14 September 2008 - 11:08 PM.

[HKCavalier]

BlindMessiah on Sep 12 2008, 01:48 PM, said:

Source?

Um, what would you call an adult who described sex acts to a 6 year old?  I thought it was obvious what McCain was implying with his "sex ed for kindergartners" smear.  I guess not.

[HKCavalier]

IamsSon on Sep 12 2008, 01:18 PM, said:

Are those the same 20 years he was attending a church which subscribes to and preaches Black Liberation Theology?  I wonder, since it seems, from what he's asking us to believe (that he never knew Pastor Wright was teaching this), if he must have somehow slept through all 20 years of sermons if he was actually awake during the times he was supposedly providing public service.

Look, y'know, this is seriously old news, but I guess y'all are actually getting a little desperate so you gotta dig.  No one says Obama was not aware that he belonged to a Black Liberation Church.  What he said was that he wasn't in church for the 4 sermons from which all the sound bites we heard on Youtube were taken.  And, get this, he wasn't.  ALL OF WHICH were sermons made soon after Sept. 11, 2001.  The infamous "Not God bless America" sermon was given the very next Sunday after 9/11.  Tempers ran high in those days, and people of every political stripe said crazy, hateful crap.  One of my oldest friends was one of these "bomb Mecca and Medina, make the Mid East a glass parking lot" wackos for a few months--the horrific events of that day hit some of us harder than others.

Also, and this may be too humanistic for some of you, but Obama was raised by his white family almost exclusively.  It makes perfect sense to me that he might join a very black church to, y'know, get in touch with that side of the American experience.