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Terrorists Win


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#1    Gazz

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 12:54 AM

With the revelation that Al-Qaeda was
behind the recent train bombings in
Madrid Spain, just before the elections.
it seems that the attack changed the
outcome of the spanish election of their
top leader.... Just the way Al-Qaeda
planned it to be?

The new elected leader already claims
he will pull all spanish troops out of
Iraq and tone down the support of the
US led war on terrorism.

This is already seen in the radical
muslim world as a great victory in
bringing down the USA.

In my opinion it will only make their
cause seem more just (in their eyes)
and in time will bring many new terrorists
into their ranks.

Does terrorism work?

Can terrorists ever win?

with the current events in Spain the
answers to the above questions is YES!

Gazz  


#2    Spartan

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 01:06 AM

Apart from why was Spain in iraq in the first place.
i really dont see why any countrie needs bombs,to do what the people of spain wanted to do in the first place,useing votes.
I dont like terriosts,if you are going to war,then war with the army.
But, if you guys did all that stuff to Greece,hahahahah
DUCK. thumbsup.gif

Edited by Spartan, 16 March 2004 - 02:08 AM.

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#3    Buddy_Hongster

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 02:03 AM

I thought ETA was involved, although the bombing is still link to Al- Qaeda.

With all the hype about war on terrorism, it is still sad to hear this kind of story

sad.gif  

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#4    Gazz

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 02:08 AM

Some information on this topic available
in the news media today....

The Associated Press

MADRID, Spain - Spain's next prime minister, saying "you cannot organize a war with lies," promised Monday to bring Spanish troops home from Iraq unless the United Nations took control from the United States.

A day after his Socialists swept Spain's ruling conservatives from power in elections overshadowed by terrorist bombings, the new leader, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, insisted that he would seek "cordial relations"¯ with Washington. But at a news conference in Madrid, he condemned the U.S. invasion last year as "disastrous¯" and added, The occupation of Iraq is [also] a disaster.¯

Zapatero also promised to lead a more pro-European government that would restore "magnificent relations" with France and Germany, which both opposed the Iraq war, unlike Spain's outgoing government.

Upset knocks out U.S. ally
In a surprise defeat Sunday, the conservative Popular Party of Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar became the first government that backed Washington in Iraq to be voted from office.

The election was held amid charges that Aznar made Spain a target for terrorists by supporting the war and that his government concealed possible connections between the train bombings Thursday "the worst terrorist attacks in Spain's history" and Islamic terrorists for political gain. The attacks killed 201 people and wounded 1,500 others.

Zapatero campaigned on a pledge to order Spain's 1,300 troops home. He made it clear Monday that he was prepared to fulfill that pledge.

BY THE NUMBERS Troops in Iraq

Which countries have provided military support

United States 120,000

Britain 11,000

Albania 70

Australia 1,000

Azerbaijan 150

Bulgaria 470

Czech Rep. 92

Denmark 496

Dominican Rep. 300

ElSalvador 360

Estonia 55

Georgia 70

Honduras 370

Hungary 300

Italy 3,000

Japan 250 (750 on the way)

Kazakhstan 25

Latvia 120

Lithuania 105

Macedonia 28

Moldova 25

Mongolia 180

Netherlands 1,100

NewZealand 60

Nicaragua 230

Norway 150

Philippines 95 (175 on the way)

Poland 2,400

Romania 400

Singapore 200

Slovakia 69 (120 on the way)

South Korea 675 (3,000 on the way)

Spain 1,300 (may be pulled out soon)

Thailand 443 (30 on the way)

Ukraine 2,000


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Gazz


#5    Xenojjin

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 02:23 AM

sorry bout the image size , couldnt help it ...

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#6    stillcrazy

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 03:04 AM

Total troops All nations 142,573

Total non U.S. Troops 22,573

Total Non U.S. and Britain Troops 11,573

Spain pulls out less than 1% total troops. 10% non-U.S./British troops.

I think it's Spains right to do so.    


#7    DC09

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 04:20 AM

To pull out now is only going to encourage the terrorists. They're sadly mistaken if they think this will stop attacks against them.  sad.gif  


#8    stillcrazy

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 04:29 AM

QUOTE
To pull out now is only going to encourage the terrorists. They're sadly mistaken if they think this will stop attacks against them.


Kellalor, While I agree with your statement and that the next attacks will be on other countries that the population was less that happy about the war. It is Spains right to pull out. But I feel that once they do, they will open the door for any group who wants to pressure Spain into capitulation, will now find it easier to do so.

And the only people who die are the innocent.  




#9    DC09

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 04:33 AM

QUOTE (stillcrazy @ Mar 15 2004, 11:29 PM)
It is Spains right to pull out.

Oh, I agree its their right.
I just don't think its the right thing to do, ya know?


#10    stillcrazy

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 04:43 AM

I agree. For the protection of the Spanish people they should stay the course.
I can't fault the Spanish for not wanting to be involved, but now they will be targets of their own doing. Then who are they going to blame?


#11    strichar

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 04:56 AM

Terrorism never wins. No act of violence ever turns out good. There will always be a violent reaction to every violent action. It may seem as though one side has won, then the other side eventually fight back. It is a never ending seige on humanity. We will never find peace if such things keep occurring.

Edited by strichar, 16 March 2004 - 04:57 AM.

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#12    Dowdy

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 06:29 AM

QUOTE
Japan 250 (750 on the way)


I thought Japan wasn't allowed to have an Army anymore as part of WW2 treaty.



QUOTE
Kazakhstan 25


Good ol Kazakhstan. I wonder if Borat is with them? tongue.gif  

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#13    Spartan

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 06:29 AM

QUOTE (strichar @ Mar 16 2004, 04:56 AM)
Terrorism never wins. No act of violence ever turns out good. There will always be a violent reaction to every violent action. It may seem as though one side has won, then the other side eventually fight back. It is a never ending seige on humanity. We will never find peace if such things keep occurring.

YES AMEN  . thumbsup.gif  

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#14    stillcrazy

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 07:59 AM

QUOTE
Terrorism never wins. No act of violence ever turns out good.


The simple truth is that Terrorist do not have to win a war and take over the government in order to win. If they change your lifestyle or your civil freedom/liberties. They have won. Once a freedom or liberty is taken away by law, it is very rare case that you get it back.
As in Spain, they caused a change in a government.  While this may or may not be directly attributable to the attacks in Spain, it achieved a victory in the minds of radical groups. If this attack caused a leader to fall, what will more attacks do to other countries. Britain and the U.S. both have elections coming up. If there are going to be more attacks, I would look for them in the time of those elections. The date of 3/11 was not done by accident, but more as a cue to persuade a people to oust a leader because he went against his people in an unpopular war.  

The terrorist bombed the U.N. headquarters in Iraq, the U.N. pulled out with no sign of returning any time soon. (Much of the problem lies with the U.S.'s insistence that they, the U.S. remain in charge.) However, the attack caused the U.N. to pull out until it feels safe, and the U.S. agrees to let the U.N. do it's job.  


#15    Stamford

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 09:10 AM

What people forget is that before the invasion of Iraq there were predictions that the War would increase terrorism.

This has been proven correct.

There wasn't any proof that Iraq had anything to do with Al Quida or 911, but the war has resulted in many moderates, both in Iraq and elsewhere, uniting against what they see as a common threat - the West.

No, we shouldn't bow to terrorism; equally, we should look at ways of treating the cause of this ill-feeling towards us, which the war in Iraq has not done (in fact it has done the opposite).

The majority of the Spanish people were against the war in the first place and the bombings last week were obviously the last straw.

A large percentage of people here in the UK were also against the war and a poll I heard on the radio this morning said that 75% now feel that it has led to us being more vulnerable.

The only difference between us and the Spanish is that we do not have a credible alternative to Blair and he is likely to win the next election, even though many here now belive that, at best, he misled us regarding the threat Iraq posed.

Are the Spanish cowards? No.

Are they bowing to terrorism? Well, that depends how you look at it; if the majority of Spaniards had been for the conflict and now voted out the Government because of this bombing then the answer would be 'yes'. But, as the vast majority were opposed to the War, then I think they are simply showing their anger at what has been brought upon them because of their Government's support of Bush.

"The future's uncertain and the end is always near."

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