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No truth


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#1    chaostrom

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 05:57 AM

I've been mulling over this idea for a while now. That we cannot know the truth. It's gotten too complex in my head (as often happens) to explain in much detail, so I'll just jot down the main points.

1. People aren't honest.
Regardless of how people demand the truth, they try to do that without divulging any truth themselves. Especially groups.

2. Falsity
There will always be someone who will make up lies, hoaxes and such for whatever reason.

3. The Unknown
There will always be something we do not know, and even of those things we think we know, there's nothing definite. Example - scientific fact turning out to be false

4. Perception
There is no proof that we perceive reality at all. We have our senses, all quite limited, not to mention the mindsets society instills in its people, and nothing more to verify that something is indeed real. Think Plato's cave. We cannot be sure that what we perceive is what it really is.

I hope I haven't fudged anything. I tend to be vague, word things in a strange manner, or just simply not be able to get my point across. Your thoughts?


#2    BabelPlatz

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 06:09 AM

You, like many others in the age of neurology and CAT Scans, like all of us plagues by this post-modern disease decree "Truth" as something unkowable. You, as though symptomatic of our time, platitudinally decry any endeavour for transcendant or universal Truth as naive. Two questions:
1) The lesser of my objections: How do logically reconcile your assertion that its all BS with your statement that "Its all BS"; it seems to me thats quite a statement about the general nature of "Truth" despite your admission that no such thing is possible {there's an answer to this}
2) This thing your calling Truth -it lacks a definitive ontology. You cant definitively state what this thing is or isnt -how can you adopt a position relative to it? If you are unable to do this why discuss it at all (why not discuss your skepticism about the talking iguanas, tea-pots orbitting the sun or some other nonsensical concept) ?
3) I'm drunk.

Love ya, peace!


#3    John from Lowell

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 08:36 AM

The skill of discernment will come in handy when you are being told something. Simply asking yourself various questions about the information is a good start.

In many ways, truth is relative to each one of us. This applies with things that are related to desires or beliefs. It is subjective. The biggest aspect of self discivery is the art of discovering one's own values and desires. Most of the time these values and wishes are planted in our minds by family, friends, and by the culture in which we live.

It is rare to find a person who consciousally aligns themself with their true inner being.

John


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#4    eight bits

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 11:21 AM

Well, I think you're right, chaos. People who wrestle with the issue seriously for any of a variety of reasons (from philosophers, to people building robots and who want to program them how to think like us), are pretty much in agreement, or as much as any large group ever is, that we don't know any contingent truths.

"Contingent" just means not strictly and logically necessary. The Pythagorean Theorem must be true, given the meanings of the words that express it. It is a necessary truth. That my keys will drop rather than float away when I let go of them is contingent.

So, we play the odds. I have a lot of confidence in the key thing. I have some confidence the stock market will recover in a few months, but I have less confidence in that than the key business. And so on.

So, what's the matter with that, really? It would be nice if we were gods, but that didn't work out. It would have been nice if I had bought Goggle at 125 and sold at 700. That didn't work out, either.

The universe is fun anyway, we're in the game, so let's play with the cards we are dealt. Good that we notice that we weren't dealt a straight flush, but maybe three aces will serve (or even just putting on a brave front that I've got the third ace will do).

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#5    Ziggy Stardust

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 11:42 AM

Truth is the absence of humanity laugh.gif

The world needs more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.

#6    Arcanus.

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 09:31 AM

Ziggy Stardust on Oct 11 2008, 11:42 AM, said:

Truth is the absence of humanity laugh.gif


Absence of human's minds. To be more exact.


Pity... clearly, fame isn't everything, is it, Mr. Potter?

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#7    Shadowmalerenamon

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 03:45 PM

"One who seeks truth, will learn it does not exist. One who finds truth is more foolish than one who finds nothing. One who finds nothing truely sees"-Shadow

Edited by Knight of the Twilight, 17 October 2008 - 03:46 PM.

"Beatus vir qui, suffert tentationem"-Lilium (2nd verse)

#8    John from Lowell

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 04:34 PM

Knight of the Twilight on Oct 17 2008, 11:45 AM, said:

"One who seeks truth, will learn it does not exist. One who finds truth is more foolish than one who finds nothing. One who finds nothing truely sees"-Shadow


Don't forget that "The one who chooses their truth, empowers themself".




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#9    Shadowmalerenamon

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 05:35 PM

John A Spera on Oct 17 2008, 11:34 AM, said:

Don't forget that "The one who chooses their truth, empowers themself".


"If more than one truth exists, none are correct, nor are any incorrect, creating a paradox where truth is nonexistent. One does not choose their truth, one chooses thier own belief. To choose a truth is impossible, as truth does not exist."-Shadow

Edited by Knight of the Twilight, 17 October 2008 - 05:36 PM.

"Beatus vir qui, suffert tentationem"-Lilium (2nd verse)

#10    John from Lowell

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 06:46 PM

Knight of the Twilight on Oct 17 2008, 01:35 PM, said:

"If more than one truth exists, none are correct, nor are any incorrect, creating a paradox where truth is nonexistent. One does not choose their truth, one chooses thier own belief. To choose a truth is impossible, as truth does not exist."-Shadow


Belief is a concept. When applied it can lead to an experiencing of knowing - One's Truth.

John



What We Are Never Changes !!

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