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Obama NOT anti-war


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#61    Fluffybunny

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 03:11 PM

supercar on Oct 15 2008, 12:17 AM, said:

The people who have blood on their hands are the people who criticize the Iraq war:

On Monday, the potentates of the press finally discovered a study completed last month by Harvard University researchers about what we have been saying for years: There is a direct connection between adverse U.S. news coverage about Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) and intensified attacks on civilians and Coalition forces in Iraq. "Is There an 'Emboldenment' Effect? Evidence from the Insurgency in Iraq," shows that negative media coverage and adverse commentary by U.S. political luminaries produce a statistically measurable increase in enemy activity. To produce the study, analysts researched the number of insurgent attacks and fatalities per week from the beginning of OIF in March 2003, to January 2008. They also examined the number of "anti-resolve statements" per week by U.S. politicians from November 2004 to January 2008 and American public opinion polls on the war from November 2004 to January 2008. The researchers found "a positive correlation" between spikes in war-critical statements in the media and the number of attacks and fatalities. They also showed that attacks increased between 7 to 10 percent following a spate of anti-resolve statements by leading political figures. The authors of the study, Radha Iyengar and Jonathan Monten, boldly state that, "We find that in periods immediately after a spike in anti-resolve statements, the level of insurgent attacks increases." Well, duh! This carefully researched study verifies what many of us who have spent months in the field concluded long ago: The drumbeat of negative "news" coverage about events in Iraq and the careless commentary from the political left in Washington have increased the jeopardy for U.S. troops and our allies.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,342868,00.html

Stirring the hornet's nest? It's a proven fact when we put more troops in violence goes down:

linked-image

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(charts prepared by General David Petraeus for testimony before Congress in April 2008)

Ahhh...fox news..gotta love it...parsing data to its limit. Do yourself a favor and widen your horizons a bit...

Your graph doesn't address my point. Unfortunately there is more to that picture than you'd care to admit. You are leaving out a point. My point was that made clear in earlier post and had to do with violence and death that occurs to civilians and how it spurs further aggression, not anything to do with the amount of troops in a region. Perhaps you'd like to pull out the graph of how many iraqi tribal leaders we are paying off right now in order to keep them quiet...keep them calm. Do you have that graph? Do you have a graph that addresses how things are going to melt down when we stop paying tribal leaders to keep them quiet and keep them from attacking each other?

Does your graph address the latest car bombs in the region of Camp Taji and how close those bombings were to firefights were with US troops in which apartment buildings had to be taken out to stop aggressors? Do you have graphs that address the relation of car bombings to US operations? Do a bit of searching between car bombings and see how close they are to major US operations.

You can parse data all day long to make it say what you want, but you are trying to apply the graphs you provided as some kind of response to my comment when it isnt even close, perhaps if you were to take the time to stop watching fox news(your first mistake) and get a hold of a copy of the latest US Army manual on counter insurgency operations( the folks that actually do it for a living) then you would know what the heck I am talking about.

For someone who claims to be such a supporter of the war, you seem to be so focused on the drivel fox news puts out that you dont even know what the US Army actually is saying...if fox news doesnt report it that is...

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#62    supercar

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 05:32 AM

Fluffybunny on Oct 15 2008, 08:28 AM, said:

Isnt saying that I am not very nice a personal attack?


Nope. I said 'antiwar people' were not very nice. When you single me out by name that makes it a personal attack.

Fluffybunny on Oct 15 2008, 08:28 AM, said:

By your grand logic warmongers are nice people with an excess of sunshine, lollypops, and Ms. Congeniality sashes across their chests


So it's OK if you call people 'warmongers' but it's not OK if I say antiwar people aren't very nice? What a hypocritical double-standard.

Fluffybunny on Oct 15 2008, 08:28 AM, said:

Perhaps since you "pro war nice people" are so knowledgeable


Wrong again. I am not pro-war. I am pro-victory with regards to Iraq.

Fluffybunny on Oct 15 2008, 08:28 AM, said:

I know that it has been your tactic in the past to try and shut people up that


Would you care to provide an example,a link to a thread or a post in this Forum,where I tried to shut people up?

Fluffybunny on Oct 15 2008, 08:28 AM, said:

I have tried to correct you


What an arrogant statement. You actually think it's your place to 'correct' people. This just confirms my belief that antiwar people think they're better than everyone else.

QUOTE (Fluffybunny @ Oct 15 2008, 08:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I could care less what you think


Thank you for proving my point about antiwar people being arrogant. And if you could care less what I think then why have you posted so much in this topic? Your actions belie your words.

QUOTE (Fluffybunny @ Oct 15 2008, 08:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Perhaps you "pro war nice people" (Who have never actually been to war or the military- how convenient is that...hmmm I wonder why that is?)


So someone who has never served in the military isn't good enough for you? President Franklin Roosevelt never served in the military. He beat the Germans and the Japanese but since he never served in the military I guess winning World War 2 just wasn't good enough.





#63    supercar

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 05:55 AM

Fluffybunny on Oct 15 2008, 10:11 AM, said:

My point was that made clear in earlier post and had to do with violence and death that occurs to civilians and how it spurs further aggression


Over 90% of civilians killed in Iraq have been killed by Muslim insurgents and militias,not American troops. There may be 3,000 Iraqis who have had family members killed by American troops but there are over 80,000 Iraqis who have had a family member killed by an insurgent group. This is why so many Iraqis have joined the 'Awakening' movement. The Iraqi people know that it is al-Qaeda and militias,not American troops,who are killing Iraqis.

Fluffybunny on Oct 15 2008, 10:11 AM, said:

Do you have a graph that addresses how things are going to melt down when we stop paying tribal leaders to keep them quiet and keep them from attacking each other?


You mean how things are going to melt down if Obama wins the election and pulls our troops out? Isn't that want Obama wants to do? Obama wants to end the war. Obama wants to pull troops out of Iraq. You've just admitted pulling troops out of Iraq will cause Iraqis to attack each other. You've just admitted Obama's plan will lead to more bloodshed.

Fluffybunny on Oct 15 2008, 10:11 AM, said:

Do you have graphs that address the relation of car bombings to US operations? Do a bit of searching between car bombings and see how close they are to major US operations


You call handing out candy to children a major operation?

July 13, 2005 BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A suicide bomber blew up a vehicle Wednesday near a U.S. military convoy and a large group of Iraqi children in Baghdad, killing 27 people, Iraqi police and hospital officials said. Iraqi police said most of the dead were children. The attack also left 20 people wounded. The U.S. military said at least seven children and a U.S. soldier died in the attack. Three U.S. soldiers were wounded. The soldiers were handing out treats to the children when the bomb went off, police said. The attack -- which happened around 10:50 a.m. (2:50 a.m. ET) in the eastern Baghdad neighborhood of al-Jaddeda -- also set a nearby house on fire, police said. "The car bomber made a deliberate decision to attack one of our vehicles as the soldiers were engaged in a peaceful operation with Iraqi citizens," Maj. Russ Goemaere said in a statement. "The terrorist undoubtedly saw the children around the Humvee as he attacked. The complete disregard for civilian life in this attack is absolutely abhorrent."

Fluffybunny on Oct 15 2008, 10:11 AM, said:

For someone who claims to be such a supporter of the war, you seem to be so focused on the drivel fox news puts out that you dont even know what the US Army actually is saying


Hello? The charts I posted are from the US Army.

That's why I posted this:

supercar on Oct 15 2008, 12:17 AM, said:

(charts prepared by General David Petraeus for testimony before Congress in April 2008)


The charts are available on this US Army website:

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=c...&Itemid=128

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/images/stories/Pre...eus_handout.pdf

Edited by supercar, 17 October 2008 - 06:53 AM.


#64    Fluffybunny

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 12:51 PM

supercar on Oct 17 2008, 12:55 AM, said:

You mean how things are going to melt down if Obama wins the election and pulls our troops out? Isn't that want Obama wants to do? Obama wants to end the war. Obama wants to pull troops out of Iraq. You've just admitted pulling troops out of Iraq will cause Iraqis to attack each other. You've just admitted Obama's plan will lead to more bloodshed.

Guess what supercar. I have said this dozens of times, and may times to you, but it never seems to sink in, and it is telling. I am not obamas buddy. You seem to have some kind of mental block whereby any kind of negative reaction to the war in iraq gets an immediate alignment with democrats and liberals, I am neither. You keep having this kneejerk reaction to me that has become rather comical at this point.

Did I mention obama? No. Thats your little trip, not mine. I said no such thing. You are telling lies now. How desperate.

Quote

You've just admitted Obama's plan will lead to more bloodshed.

That is simply not true. You are now lying. Whats it like to be so out of control that you have to start inserting words in other peoples posts that were not there? Here was my post:

Quote

Ahhh...fox news..gotta love it...parsing data to its limit. Do yourself a favor and widen your horizons a bit...

Your graph doesn't address my point. Unfortunately there is more to that picture than you'd care to admit. You are leaving out a point. My point was that made clear in earlier post and had to do with violence and death that occurs to civilians and how it spurs further aggression, not anything to do with the amount of troops in a region. Perhaps you'd like to pull out the graph of how many iraqi tribal leaders we are paying off right now in order to keep them quiet...keep them calm. Do you have that graph? Do you have a graph that addresses how things are going to melt down when we stop paying tribal leaders to keep them quiet and keep them from attacking each other?

Does your graph address the latest car bombs in the region of Camp Taji and how close those bombings were to firefights were with US troops in which apartment buildings had to be taken out to stop aggressors? Do you have graphs that address the relation of car bombings to US operations? Do a bit of searching between car bombings and see how close they are to major US operations.

You can parse data all day long to make it say what you want, but you are trying to apply the graphs you provided as some kind of response to my comment when it isnt even close, perhaps if you were to take the time to stop watching fox news(your first mistake) and get a hold of a copy of the latest US Army manual on counter insurgency operations( the folks that actually do it for a living) then you would know what the heck I am talking about.

For someone who claims to be such a supporter of the war, you seem to be so focused on the drivel fox news puts out that you dont even know what the US Army actually is saying...if fox news doesnt report it that is...

Tell me supercar, where in there do I say "Obama's plan will lead to more bloodshed." You are seeing things that are not there, and that is a serious problem. Either that or you have lied. Which is it?

So give me a direct answer supercar, are you a liar or delusional? Which is it?

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#65    Fluffybunny

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 01:01 PM

supercar on Oct 17 2008, 12:55 AM, said:

You call handing out candy to children a major operation?

July 13, 2005 BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A suicide bomber blew up a vehicle Wednesday near a U.S. military convoy and a large group of Iraqi children in Baghdad, killing 27 people, Iraqi police and hospital officials said. Iraqi police said most of the dead were children. The attack also left 20 people wounded. The U.S. military said at least seven children and a U.S. soldier died in the attack. Three U.S. soldiers were wounded. The soldiers were handing out treats to the children when the bomb went off, police said. The attack -- which happened around 10:50 a.m. (2:50 a.m. ET) in the eastern Baghdad neighborhood of al-Jaddeda -- also set a nearby house on fire, police said. "The car bomber made a deliberate decision to attack one of our vehicles as the soldiers were engaged in a peaceful operation with Iraqi citizens," Maj. Russ Goemaere said in a statement. "The terrorist undoubtedly saw the children around the Humvee as he attacked. The complete disregard for civilian life in this attack is absolutely abhorrent."



Hello? The charts I posted are from the US Army.

That's why I posted this:



The charts are available on this US Army website:

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=c...&Itemid=128

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/images/stories/Pre...eus_handout.pdf

You are posting an attack that occurred in July of 2005? What does that have to do with this? How does that relate to what I have brought up? Because it mentions soldiers handing out candy? How does that have anything to do with the topic at hand? I realize that the charts are from the Army(and I pointed out they had nothing to do with what I was talking about), prey tell where was your news story from? Faux News! You cant even seem to find the recent attacks that have occurred?

The charts have absolutely no relation to what I was talking about. Nothing. I guess you cant grasp the concept. Too bad, because General Patreaus, the man who made the charts that you mistakenly posted surely does, and has changed the game plan because of it.




Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#66    Fluffybunny

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 01:25 PM

supercar on Oct 17 2008, 12:32 AM, said:

Nope. I said 'antiwar people' were not very nice. When you single me out by name that makes it a personal attack.


And that comment followed my comment, who prey tell were you referring to, if not me? huh.gif  

Quote

So it's OK if you call people 'warmongers' but it's not OK if I say antiwar people aren't very nice? What a hypocritical double-standard.

Its OK if you say antiwar people arent very nice. ironic as all hell, but you can say it. I think the irony was lost on you.

Quote

Wrong again. I am not pro-war. I am pro-victory with regards to Iraq.


If not by war, how do you plan to win in iraq? Rock paper scissor contest? Indian Leg wrestling? Shin Kicking contest?

You cant possibly take your own above comment seriously. Good grief.

Quote

What an arrogant statement. You actually think it's your place to 'correct' people. This just confirms my belief that antiwar people think they're better than everyone else.

Thank you for proving my point about antiwar people being arrogant. And if you could care less what I think then why have you posted so much in this topic? Your actions belie your words.

.


Its funny you keep saying I am antiwar, just like you keep aligning me with obama. You keep doing it over and over again, even though i have said many many times to the contrary. I support the fighting in Afghanistan. I support wars that are necessary. I actually volunteered to fight in one, remember? I dont know what your block is about that, but I wish you could wrap your mind around the idea that a person can disagree with what is going on in iraq, and no be a democrat...its just silly to have to keep repeating myself.

I post in this topic because I want to. And I enjoy showing you for who you are.

Quote

So someone who has never served in the military isn't good enough for you? President Franklin Roosevelt never served in the military. He beat the Germans and the Japanese but since he never served in the military I guess winning World War 2 just wasn't good enough


Did I say that? Did I ever say that Roosevelt wasnt good enough? You are really busy putting words in my mouth. I simply tire of the pro war folks who have no idea what they are talking about who are more than willing to risk other peoples lives without risking ANYTHING of their own. Roosevelt risked a lot personally.

What did you risk personally to win this war?

I see by the little banner at the bottom of your posts you bash obama for not sacrificing anything for the war in iraq. I want to ask YOU what have YOU sacrificed to win the war in Iraq? You must have sacrificed a lot more than obama being such a great American, so now is your chance to let us all know what YOU have sacrificed to help win the war in Iraq.

Please do tell, give us a list...



Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#67    The Silver Thong

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 01:48 PM



I to am curious, tell us Supercar, what have you done to help ensure victory in Iraq. Or are you just another arm chair general with nothing more than an obscure view of whats happeneing in Iraq.  You want to throw out the 80.000 iraqi's have been killed by insurgants fine with me lets say it is 80.000, thats alot of people in a short time. How many Iraqi's died each year befor the war started? Just curious was Saddam the evil mastermind that threated the world with WMD's and global domination. Nope his troops actualy used sling shots but hey they kept the terrorists at bay didn't they, meaning Saddam.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


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#68    Clocker

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 02:04 PM

I'm sure the hornet's nest Fluffy was referring to wasn't just Iraq...but even to try to begin to explain the complexity of the situation would be futile.

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#69    ravergirl

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 02:17 PM

Clocker on Oct 17 2008, 09:04 AM, said:

I'm sure the hornet's nest Fluffy was referring to wasn't just Iraq...but even to try to begin to explain the complexity of the situation would be futile.



kind of like Resistance would be.....




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#70    AROCES

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 05:52 PM

The Silver Thong on Oct 17 2008, 01:48 PM, said:

How many Iraqi's died each year befor the war started?

Hard to say for nobody know if there are more mass graves and how many have Uday and Qusay murdered.





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