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Jesus Christ = Saint Issa?


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#1    Blue^Hunter

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 09:37 AM

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Ancient scrolls reveal that Jesus spent seventeen years in India and Tibet ???



Interesting coincidence theories of Jesus 'Fake' resurrection? and..Did Jesus travel to India and Tibet?

Quote

6 Three days after, the governor sent his soldiers to carry away the body of Issa to bury it elsewhere, fearing otherwise a popular insurrection.

7 The next day the crowd found the tomb open and empty. At once the rumor spread that the supreme Judge had sent his angels to carry away the mortal remains of the saint in whom dwelt on earth a part of the Divine Spirit.
http://reluctant-messenger.com/issa4.htm



Quote

The Lost Tomb of Jesus will
undoubtedly spark debate, the
following will help to clarify
its implications on Resurrection
and Ascension.
http://www.jesusfamilytomb.com/movie_overview.html


Anyone care to share his/her opinion here? THank in advance  original.gif

Edited by Blue^Hunter, 19 October 2008 - 09:42 AM.

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#2    Unknown Rebel

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:54 AM

These scrolls are popular for people trying to determine the 'Missing Years' of Jesus between the age of 12-15 up to the age of 30-32. Translated by Notovitch whilst being treated for wounds (thrown from a horse) at the Hemis Monastery, the scrolls apparently talk about the young Jesus arriving at the foothills of the Himalayas and studying with Tibetan Priests (Buddhism). He then traveled throughout the region before returning to the Middle East and then back to India to die / be buried.
However, Notovitch lied. The Hemis Monastery never accepted Notovitch as a visitor (wounded or otherwise) leading to the head of the Hemis Monastical community to produce a statement declaring Notovitch as an outright liar, nor does it hold any scrolls relating to the life of Jesus.

Issa on the other hand is a corruption of 'Isa' the Islamic name of Jesus who, in the Koran / Qur’an, was a prophet of Allah.

Take this as you will but the Historical Community usually clashes with the Religious when facts aren't exactly correct.


#3    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 08 November 2008 - 05:52 AM

That said, there is a degree of correlation between Jesus' teachings and Zen and Mayahna (speeling, sorry) Buddhism.
Perhaps he did go out and meet many teachers during that 15 years. Getting from where he was in the Middle East to India/China isn't out of the question in that time.

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I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

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#4    cboxgo

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 02:14 PM

It has been my own experience, in my thirty-four years, that every account to try to prove a historical Jesus has been nothing but a fraud.  Additionally, every supposed historical reference to Jesus has been so vagued that it could have been describing any person by the same name, which wouldn't be too unlikely given that the name was common for that period.  It seems that the Bible, a book with an obvious bias toward promoting the belief system, is the only source other than other hearsay accounts to actually mention Jesus and it's limited in what it actually mentioned.  I mean, the Bible mentions a lamb more frequently then Jesus.  That having been said, I believe it's more likely that Jesus came from a "hero tale" that floating around the region around that time given it's striking similarities with other, much older, stories that were around for thousands of years prior to his elleged existence.

Maybe if people stopped trying to find evidence to support their belief and looked at the overwelming problems putting any of it to a physical person, then maybe the world would be a better place.  grin2.gif  At least, until we got rid of the people wanting to blow everyone up over their stories.

Edited by cboxgo, 25 May 2009 - 02:16 PM.


#5    DieChecker

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 06:44 PM

Blue^Hunter on Oct 19 2008, 02:37 AM, said:

Ancient scrolls reveal that Jesus spent seventeen years in India and Tibet???

Interesting coincidence theories of Jesus 'Fake' resurrection? and..Did Jesus travel to India and Tibet?

There is a story that Jesus went as far as Japan. And, I believe he supposedly fathered children there. Which I find hard to believe. I find the idea he went to India several times and Tibet equally as hard to believe. Not impossible though.

Becoming a Rabbi would have taken a considerable amount of young Jesus's time, I doubt he would have Young Indiana Jones style adventures, but most likely would spend most of his daylight hours reading and memorizing Scriptures.

cboxgo on May 25 2009, 07:14 AM, said:

It has been my own experience, in my thirty-four years, that every account to try to prove a historical Jesus has been nothing but a fraud.  Additionally, every supposed historical reference to Jesus has been so vagued that it could have been describing any person by the same name, which wouldn't be too unlikely given that the name was common for that period.  It seems that the Bible, a book with an obvious bias toward promoting the belief system, is the only source other than other hearsay accounts to actually mention Jesus and it's limited in what it actually mentioned.

Using such standards you would be hard pressed to proove that anyone other then the rulers of kingdoms actually existed. Even then much of what is known was passed down by state historians, so those histories are suspect too. There is no real way to know that anything or anyone was ever real, it could all be fake or contrived. Either in the past when it was written, or when it was translated.

The fact is that starting soon after he left, like 50 years, plus or minus, people started writing letters and full accounts about Jesus, and that the stories, even after 50 years were only a little different from one another. Try passing on the book The Hobbit by oral tradition for 50 years and see if there are not a few differences when it is again written down by several different people. I hardly think an imaginary person would hold such weight so soon after supposedly living and dying and accending to Heaven.

Also, Relgions do not kill people or start wars, individual people do. People with Power and Control issues. Fanatics exist in all Religions and they only see what they want to see.

Edited by DieChecker, 25 May 2009 - 06:46 PM.

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#6    KRS-One

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 01:22 AM

A few questions spring to mind:

Who here believes in Jesus?
Who here would get upset and offer evidence to the contrary if I said "No evidence for Jesus as a real human exists"?

For those of you left standing and who are considering this article,

Do you feel the lower middle class son of a jewish carpenter would be allowed to travel freely outside his immediate area by the local Roman authorities for any reason whatsoever?

"Who's this, then?  Un-accompanied jewish youth from nazareth says he'd like to travel to India.  Let 'em on through!"


#7    Lt_Ripley

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 01:27 AM

cboxgo on May 25 2009, 10:14 AM, said:

It has been my own experience, in my thirty-four years, that every account to try to prove a historical Jesus has been nothing but a fraud.  Additionally, every supposed historical reference to Jesus has been so vagued that it could have been describing any person by the same name, which wouldn't be too unlikely given that the name was common for that period.  It seems that the Bible, a book with an obvious bias toward promoting the belief system, is the only source other than other hearsay accounts to actually mention Jesus and it's limited in what it actually mentioned.  I mean, the Bible mentions a lamb more frequently then Jesus.  That having been said, I believe it's more likely that Jesus came from a "hero tale" that floating around the region around that time given it's striking similarities with other, much older, stories that were around for thousands of years prior to his elleged existence.

Maybe if people stopped trying to find evidence to support their belief and looked at the overwelming problems putting any of it to a physical person, then maybe the world would be a better place.  grin2.gif  At least, until we got rid of the people wanting to blow everyone up over their stories.


I agree.


#8    Lt_Ripley

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 01:35 AM

DieChecker on May 25 2009, 02:44 PM, said:

There is a story that Jesus went as far as Japan. And, I believe he supposedly fathered children there. Which I find hard to believe. I find the idea he went to India several times and Tibet equally as hard to believe. Not impossible though.

Becoming a Rabbi would have taken a considerable amount of young Jesus's time, I doubt he would have Young Indiana Jones style adventures, but most likely would spend most of his daylight hours reading and memorizing Scriptures.


Using such standards you would be hard pressed to proove that anyone other then the rulers of kingdoms actually existed. Even then much of what is known was passed down by state historians, so those histories are suspect too. There is no real way to know that anything or anyone was ever real, it could all be fake or contrived. Either in the past when it was written, or when it was translated.

The fact is that starting soon after he left, like 50 years, plus or minus, people started writing letters and full accounts about Jesus, and that the stories, even after 50 years were only a little different from one another. Try passing on the book The Hobbit by oral tradition for 50 years and see if there are not a few differences when it is again written down by several different people. I hardly think an imaginary person would hold such weight so soon after supposedly living and dying and accending to Heaven.

Also, Relgions do not kill people or start wars, individual people do. People with Power and Control issues. Fanatics exist in all Religions and they only see what they want to see.


actually Jesus wasn't a 'rabbi' in the real sense. anyone preaching , and there were many just like 'Jesus' would have been called 'teacher or rabbi' .

The gospels are very different from one another...

# Only 8 of the 27 books of the New Testament were actually written by the authors to whom they're attributed. Others are likely forgeries.
# The gospels provide remarkably divergent portrayals of Jesus.
# The message of the Apostle Paul and the message of gospel writer Matthew are completely at
odds over the question of whether a follower of Jesus also had to observe the Jewish law.
# The Nicene Creed and the Trinity were constructs of the later church and are not found in the pages of the Bible.
# Traditional doctrines such as the suffering Messiah, the divinity of Christ, and the notion of heaven and hell are not based on the teachings of the historical Jesus.
# The commonly told story of Jesus -- his birth, death, and resurrection is actually a composite of
four vastly different gospel narratives.


#9    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 04:13 AM

KRS-One on May 26 2009, 11:22 AM, said:

A few questions spring to mind:

Who here believes in Jesus?

I do, for one.

Quote

Who here would get upset and offer evidence to the contrary if I said "No evidence for Jesus as a real human exists"?

Nope, I can accept faith in something without evidence - that is rather what faith is, after all.


Quote

Do you feel the lower middle class son of a jewish carpenter would be allowed to travel freely outside his immediate area by the local Roman authorities for any reason whatsoever?

"Who's this, then?  Un-accompanied jewish youth from nazareth says he'd like to travel to India.  Let 'em on through!"

Why would the Romans care?
Within the borders of the empire, one could travel anywhere.

IIRC the Roman empire's borders were open to anyone who wanted to leave (getting in was the trouble, and even then he'd have just wandered across where there wasn't guards).
It's not as if there was a huge fence around the empire.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

You may think you're cool, but you'll never be as cool as Peter Capaldi with an electric guitar, on a tank, playing the Doctor Who theme.

#10    DieChecker

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 06:43 PM

Lt_Ripley on May 25 2009, 06:35 PM, said:

actually Jesus wasn't a 'rabbi' in the real sense. anyone preaching , and there were many just like 'Jesus' would have been called 'teacher or rabbi' .

Do you have any proof of that Ripley, or is this just an assumption?

There is no way to know what training Jesus had. But, the fact he was called rabbi would indicate that he knew the Scriptures because either, 1)  he was a divine being, or 2) because he had extensive training in them.

Quote

The gospels are very different from one another...

# Only 8 of the 27 books of the New Testament were actually written by the authors to whom they're attributed. Others are likely forgeries.

I don't think this is provable one way or the other. If they were not written by the named author, then they were written from oral tradition within a lifetime of the death of the author. This is generally accepted of the conventional books of the New Testament.

Quote

# The gospels provide remarkably divergent portrayals of Jesus.

I don't believe that to be true. Have you studied them? There are some differences. Some have some major disparities, but I would not call them divergent, just written from different perspectives, as any biography would be. They must not have had very many copy editors doing fact checking for them back then.  grin2.gif

Quote

# The message of the Apostle Paul and the message of gospel writer Matthew are completely at odds over the question of whether a follower of Jesus also had to observe the Jewish law.
# The Nicene Creed and the Trinity were constructs of the later church and are not found in the pages of the Bible.
# Traditional doctrines such as the suffering Messiah, the divinity of Christ, and the notion of heaven and hell are not based on the teachings of the historical Jesus.
# The commonly told story of Jesus -- his birth, death, and resurrection is actually a composite of four vastly different gospel narratives.

Facts are facts, so I can not argue with most of these. I can only say that all religions are subject to change over time. Even the Koran, which is supposed to be the iron firm word of God, is open for interpretation these days and there are many denominations in Islam these days.

Edited by DieChecker, 26 May 2009 - 06:45 PM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#11    MARAB0D

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 10:57 PM

KRS-One on May 26 2009, 01:22 PM, said:

A few questions spring to mind:

Who here believes in Jesus?
Who here would get upset and offer evidence to the contrary if I said "No evidence for Jesus as a real human exists"?

For those of you left standing and who are considering this article,

Do you feel the lower middle class son of a jewish carpenter would be allowed to travel freely outside his immediate area by the local Roman authorities for any reason whatsoever?

"Who's this, then?  Un-accompanied jewish youth from nazareth says he'd like to travel to India.  Let 'em on through!"


The fact is that the Gospels describe a person, which they name Jesus, who was expressing very original, consistent and specific philosophical views on religion and values of common daily life; and these views were by themselves a NEW interpretation of the existing doctrine. In fact this would be the best proof that there was someone existing who created these philosophical views and was popularizing them - and why would we refuse to accept that this person was called by the name the books call him?

There also are some historical references to his existence, say in Tacitus, but these can be suspected in being a later forgery by 9th century Catholic monks.

Travels to India in Hellenic world were if not common but possible. Legend of 6th century BC was saying Athenian politician Solon was travelling to India. Greeks knew about India from Ethiopians, who came after being banished for killing their Radja from India and settled in Africa, where their temples were attracting Egyptian philosophers and priests, as well as travellers from Europe. Alexander of Macedonia knew about Indian philosophy, and his desire to talk to the wizards was a strong component of his drive to conquer this remote land - as soon as he accomplished this desire and spend few days in one of the monasteries, he turned back. In Jesus' times (slightly later) later Apollonius of Tiana was visiting India with the same intent, to learn from Indian monks.

Roman Empire did not have any limitations on traveling for personally free people. There was no passports or visa system which could prevent such travels. There were probably thousands of such traveling beggars and philosophers, as Jesus was. There could be some conditions, imposed by the local authorities on the people who were intended to stay for long or settle permanently in their towns, and only on this occasion the reasons could be asked for in order to make a record. There were secret services in operation, who were screening such traveling people and vagrants in order to identify the criminals and escaped slaves, but this is basically the same as happens today if you get into some place where they do not know you.


#12    CausticGnostic

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 08:35 AM

The "Issa" story about Jesus' "lost years" was popularized back in the 80s by Elizabeth Claire Prophet.  I think it foolish, however, to credit any assertions by a person who claims to be "channeling" the spirit of St. Germaine. . . .


#13    crystal sage

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 08:15 AM

I thought I would add this interesting article/argument  to the mix

The Name of Jesus: Rebuttal
A Refutation to Mohd's Article "

Quennel Gale

http://www.answer-islam.org/ISARebuttal.html


.... and Jesus and Zeus



http://www.scribd.com/doc/7239693/Jesus-and-Zeus


cool.gif and there was a story about Jesus visiting Scotland..

Quote

http://www.sacredconnections.co.uk/holylan...sitscotland.htm
DID JESUS VISIT SCOTLAND?

While visiting the Scottish Hebridean Islands around 1890, Henry Jenner, a former keeper of the manuscripts department at the British Museum in London, came across a surprising oral tradition. In an article published in "The Western Morning News" in 1933, Jenner wrote "I was staying on South Uist, in the Catholic part of the outer Hebrides, and found there a whole set of legends of the wanderings of the Holy Mother and Son in those Islands."

Rather curiously, there is a small Island placename in Dunvegan Bay, off the Scottish Isle of Skye, which is called in gaelic Eilean Isa ("Island of Jesus"). In the Middle East Jesus was known by the Arabic name of Isa ("God saves"). The name Jesus was derived later from the Greek language. Although the gaelic name for Jesus is Iosa, it is interesting to note that this small Scottish Island has been named using the Middle Eastern spelling. Furthermore, there are said to be ancient records in Tibet which refer to Jesus as Saint Isa or Issa and that He visited Nepal and India.

Interestingly, there are no religious sites on Eilean Isa (currently spelt Isay) or anything to suggest that it's name was conceived from a religious dedication. So it could be conjectured that the "Island of Jesus" was so named as a result of it being sanctified by the presence of Jesus (Isa) Himself. During the early centuries A.D. a placename was often given to record the actual presence and sanctification of a specific place by the early Celtic Christian monastic saints. Could this explain why the "Island of Jesus" was thus named to record the actual presence of Jesus on this particular Island. Moreover, legends and folklore also associate Joseph of Arimathea, uncle of Jesus, with the Scottish Isle of Skye.
© copyright 2003 Barry Dunford.


http://www.theroseline.co.uk/index.php?mai...amp;pages_id=61




.... and
http://www.answering-islam.org/Index/J/jesus.html


Quote

JESUS
ISA (occasionally also spelled Esa or Eesa)
SON OF MARY

Gk: Iesous (), equivalent to Joshua, Hebrew Yehoshua (), meaning "God is Salvation" or "God saves".

Jesus is perhaps the most controversial character in Islam, and thus there is a tremendous amount of Islamic literature about Jesus. In general, while Muslims affirm that Jesus performed miracles and has special attributes that other prophets did not have, Muslims still believe that Jesus was no more than a prophet. Muslims believe that He ranks above other prophets, but below the status of Muhammad, despite Jesus having attributes that even Muhammad did not have.

The article The Muslim Jesus, known as ‘Isa is an excellent introcuction on the Islamic beliefs about Jesus in contrast to the Biblical record.


What is Jesus' Islamic Name? Isa, Esau or Yesu?




#14    Alchera

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 11:50 PM

Jesus in Scotland!? Oh my whatever next.

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#15    MARAB0D

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 01:35 AM

Warbringer on May 30 2009, 11:50 AM, said:

Jesus in Scotland!? Oh my whatever next.



Haha! Most interesting is that there was no Scotland when Jesus was alive. Scots moved to Britain from Ireland at least a couple of centuries later, and the Brits first became aware of them only after the Romans abandoned the colony in about 400s AD. Only then they had to hire the Saxons for protection. Meanwhile, the Brits were Christians, baptised by the same Romans, not by any Scottish Christ. Hebrides in Christ times were populated by Ugro-finns, the locals looked like modern Eskimo or Inuits. They were eating walrus and living in wigwams, Jesus and his Mom were only good for food there.





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