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A Question for Creationists.


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#1    Diebytheflyguy

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 03:20 AM

Opposite to the "Question For Evolutionists,"

WHY do you strongly believe that some outside (GOD) force created us?

Firstly I must say how dumb it is to see how many religions are out there. Because of this FACT, how can you possibly think that there is a God. Each religion have different beliefs and think that THEY are right. This alone should hint that something is not right. If supposedly every religion believes other are wrong and that THEIR God is God wouldnt this cancel the fact that a God does exist.

Isnt the formation of Governments, Mafias(using examples) the same as the organization call the church. But they do not base themselves on the fact that a "God" created them.

Secondly, how can only believe that basically OUT OF NOWHERE a person, spirit or whatever "God" is created earth and the people and the plants and the animals and the water and the....

Thirdly if all man is created equal. the why was Jesus created better that all humans? Why was moses called instead of someone else to lead the Hebrew people? What was Noah called to be the only survivor of the flood and why did God commit mass genocide when he flooded the earth? Why do other people follow other religions is they are supposed to not worship any other god but YHWH?If God is ever forgiving, why did he condradict his teaching and do what I just listed?

If we have free will why do we have to follow the teaching of the church and the Ten Commandments.

The best way to to look at what people to follow the church is because of fear. They fear the consequences of not believing in God. They find comfort in believing in something, and they need assurance that death will not be the horrible end

Religion is based on fear. With fear comes power, and with power comes control. The church has much power and control over its followers. Look at how many people follow what the church says, and look at how many people support the church by going and praying to a false idea.


#2    Diebytheflyguy

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 04:03 AM

And what about Dinosaurs. The bible states that God created the earth in 6 days and reasted on the 7th...and humans were created sometime during this. And if dinosaurs are considered animals than why would the dinosaurs and humans be on the earth at the same time, when humans werent around with them.

If they arent considered animals then they would have been put on the earth before that(Adam and Eve) which means he did not create the earth in 7 days. In turn this shows that the bible is wrong and therefore the question stating that God exists is WRONG!


#3    DrStrangelove

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 04:35 AM

Well, being the one who wrote "Question for Evolutionists" I feel sort of compelled to post here. I must say though, what I am about to say will have no effect on anyone and there is no reason to post. We all are obviously stubborn and refuse to change our minds contrary to what the opposing side says.

QUOTE
WHY do you strongly believe that some outside (GOD) force created us?


Faith. Besides, the idea of an afterlife of tormoil (Hell, Hades, etc.) being introduced to this world through almost every civilization is enough to make one worry. It is a gamble that is very dangerous. What do you have to lose anyway? I am assuming, though, that you believe there is an afterlife. I guess what I am saying is it too much of a gamble.

QUOTE
Firstly I must say how dumb it is to see how many religions are out there. Because of this FACT, how can you possibly think that there is a God. Each religion have different beliefs and think that THEY are right. This alone should hint that something is not right. If supposedly every religion believes other are wrong and that THEIR God is God wouldnt this cancel the fact that a God does exist.


It would not. I, being a christian, do not claim to any religion. I know half of you are laughing at the sound of that last sentence, but I do not believe christianity is a religion. It is simply a relationship between me and my creator. Religions are just as you say, organizations.

QUOTE
Isnt the formation of Governments, Mafias(using examples) the same as the organization call the church. But they do not base themselves on the fact that a "God" created them.


Well, I don't kno what you mean by "church". I have heard so many definitions tat I can not properly answer you. *dances*

QUOTE
Secondly, how can only believe that basically OUT OF NOWHERE a person, spirit or whatever "God" is created earth and the people and the plants and the animals and the water and the....


Isn't that the Idea of evolution? I mean, seriously, the idea of evolution is that we came out of nowhere. I didn't fully understand the question because of grammer errors but who doesn't mess up now and then? Anyway, another argumen of mine is this: as it may seem illogical that a spirit just automatically creates this stuff out of nowhere but bare in mind, God also created logic. It doesn't matter what is logical or not. Logic is not applicable to God. His will is perfect simply because He says so.

QUOTE
Thirdly if all man is created equal. the why was Jesus created better that all humans? Why was moses called instead of someone else to lead the Hebrew people? What was Noah called to be the only survivor of the flood and why did God commit mass genocide when he flooded the earth? Why do other people follow other religions is they are supposed to not worship any other god but YHWH?If God is ever forgiving, why did he condradict his teaching and do what I just listed?


Heh, I hear that alot from people. Jesus wasn't btter than anyone else. He just didn't sin. He was God, yet, He was man. If that seems illogical... then you're right! I don't get it but that's what it was. Logic doesn't apply to God. He made Logic. Also, to use a cliche', we are like ants in terms of intelligence compared to God. He knows, so don't worry about it. Why was Moses called instead of someone else? I don't know, I'm not God. I am surehis reasons were justified, as they always are. Why Noah? Well, the Bible said because he was righteous (I am not saying he didnt sin, though). He commited mass genocide simply because He saw that what He made was doing very decpicable and wrong things. I immagine it was like todays inmorality only a billion times worse (the pre-flood era, anyway). God did kill all the people in the flood. He did this totally justified, however. They sinned against Him and He has every right to be the judge.

QUOTE
If we have free will why do we have to follow the teaching of the church and the Ten Commandments.


Again, the church thing throws me off. I obey no church. I obey the Bible. He gives us free will so we can follow the Bible by our own accord; as opposed to obeying Him by His will. Think about that, it makes sence.

QUOTE
The best way to to look at what people to follow the church is because of fear. They fear the consequences of not believing in God. They find comfort in believing in something, and they need assurance that death will not be the horrible end


Pastors, preachers, even the Pope are all sinners. The church (in my opinion) is simply a group of people getting together and learning about God. It's just fellowship. God told us about Hell not to make us fear it, but to show us what He is saving us from. If you were to look into christianity closer many of your arguments against religion simply would not apply. You don't have to do good things to get into heaven and escape hell. All you have to do is eccept Gods forgivenss and profess your sinful nature and the fect the Jesus Chritsts death on the cross saed you from your eternity from hell. I am not afraid of hell and I am not supposed to be afraid of it. I do, however, know what God has saved me from.

QUOTE
Religion is based on fear. With fear comes power, and with power comes control. The church has much power and control over its followers. Look at how many people follow what the church says, and look at how many people support the church by going and praying to a false idea.


I don't know about religion being based on fear because I am not a part of any religion. The fear, powr, control thing is right, though. Again, church is just a establishment were believers can learn more about God. My church leader doesn't control me by fear, he tells me about God through the Bible.

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#4    DrStrangelove

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 04:38 AM

My mom says I have to go to bed, but I will answer your question tomorrow. Thank you for your questions though.

Edited by DrStrangelove, 25 March 2004 - 04:39 AM.

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#5    TheNeutralBuddhist

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 06:45 AM

DrStrangelove, good Im glad your in the mood for answering questions because I have some, and your arguements are mere assertions you have no evidence besides the bible said it to prove your claims. if you were to say for instance : Does God exist ?The Bible is true because God exists, and God exists because the Bible says so.That would be begging the question, this leaves the question still being asked unanswered, you cant use the bible or God as their own evidence for existing. Give us facts and independant proof.
Lets being shall we.....

Prayer
1. God is PERFECT
2. GOD is Absolute, as in complete and lacking nothing needing or wanting nothing!.
3. God knows All, Past-Present-Future.
4. How does prayer benefit God in any sort of way at all?
In hospitals there have been experiments conducted to see if prayer works and basically it has been concluded unreliable. In that case if it was, why are there "still" children and adults suffering from Aids and other diseases? Iím more than sure they all pray to God to heal them, yet they all die painfully or eventually just die in general from their disease.

What is the purpose of prayer? What can a finite being on Earth possibly tell an omnipotent, omniscient deity that he doesn't know already? If you say, he wants to hear it from your mouth, why would he need to hear it from my mouth if he absolutely knows what Iím thinking? To need more proof or to test would be doubt or second guess  his knowledge, why should I tell him twice if he already infinitely knew once?


Adam and Eve

1. God is All knowing, of Past, Present, and Future.
2. Why the hell did he put the damn tree in the Garden of Eden if he knew deliberately that they would eat of it?! blink.gif  To test them! disgust.gif What would he need to test them for if he is all knowing?! To test would imply that there is doubt in his knowledge; but he is all knowing. whistling2.gif

God Existing.....

1. Give all disbelievers "Absolute" (Undeniable) proof God exist.

Adam and Eve
1. If Adam and Eve were "created" you know, poof just were put on earth, why does it in "every" church where they have pictures on the windows they are shown having a belly button? Thatís for the umbilical cord, from being born....

Have you ever personally spoken to God?

How can you worship a God that displays the negative emotions that we as people strive to overcome?

Why was there a "Tree of Life" in the Garden if Adam and Eve were already immortal? Also, if Adam and Eve were immortal, i.e. could not die, why did they want to eat the fruit from the "Tree of Knowledge" in the first place? Isn't eating a requirement for organisms to survive?

Isaiah 40:28 says, "...the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not (i.e. get tired not), neither is he weary?" If this is true, why did God rest on the seventh day?

The Bible is full of phrases beginning with, "and the lord saw". Didn't he know before hand? blink.gif  laugh.gif

Why does God have a plan? Man is limited in power so we make plans because we are not all-knowing or all-powerful in any given situation, so we formulate a plan to execute in hopes it will succeed. If God has a plan, isn't he reduced to a mere finite being, why would he need a plan if he already knows and is all powerful towards any situation?

And the most important ........for people who believe Jesus and God are One meaning the same person, answer this.

Why would an all-powerful God become flesh in order to sacrifice himself- to-himself so that his creation might escape the wrath of -himself?Why should a sacrifice even be needed?.

Why do you want us to believe in the bible (a mere book) that states Snakes can talk!? Why donít we see anymore talking snakes?

How can you follow a illusion being God that clearly more than once disobeys his own commandments!?

Answer these questions if you can, I would appreciate it and would love to read your response if not go further on the topic.

Edited by TheNeutralBuddhist, 25 March 2004 - 07:07 AM.


#6    aquatus1

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 03:27 PM

DrStrangelove
As far as your personal beliefs go, more power to you.  Out of your entire post, I found nothing that would cause a conflict with my system of congnitive reasoning, science.

There is only one part, however, that I do believe misrepresents my position.  You stated:

  
QUOTE
I mean, seriously, the idea of evolution is that we came out of nowhere.


That is so far off the definition that I wonder if it isn't intentionaly misleading.  Evolution makes no comments as to the origin of living creatures; that is an entirely different field of theories referred to as abiogenesis.  To compare evolution to it is as valid as comparing it to geology.  If I recall my catholic school days, it is not evolution that claims that the universe was created out of nowhere, it was the bible.  Evolution is strictly about how small changes to the genetic code produce immense variety through generations of living creatures.

I will make no derogatory arguments concerning your beliefs, but at the same time I ask that you not simplify mine to such a ridiculous extent.

Edited by aquatus1, 25 March 2004 - 03:29 PM.


#7    X~File_Agent

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 04:19 PM

Wow, I could counterpoint so much of Dr. Strangelove's comments, but I have answered those questions so many times as well as others, that I don't have the energy.  All of your arguments have been posted and countered on the Evolution Vs. Creationism thread.  I suggest you sit down for a few hours and read through the entire thread.  It's very informative.  thumbsup.gif  

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#8    Phantom

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 06:03 PM

Good point, and with that I shall kindly redirect you there.  thumbsup.gif  

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