Ziggy Stardust on Oct 31 2008, 06:12 AM, said:
QUOTE (oslove @ Oct 31 2008, 10:51 AM)
We are talking in telekinesis about a physical phenomenon.
Before anything else, a physical phenomenon must be physically observable even though we cannot enact it in our laboratory, because it is too grand a phenomenon or too complicated, to enact.
Exactly, thank you. Bee, my belief and practice of astral projection has absolutely no relevance to this debate, and your use of it 'against' me, shows a degree of desperation. Astral Projection - an esoteric concept, assuming the existence of an ethereal world. Telekinesis - the practice of moving physical objects, on the physical plane. How are they at all related? Not in the slightest. Bee's lack of evidence has reached the point at which he/she is questioning the nature of the debater rather than the debater's points.
By the way, I thought you were gone?
So I went to your forum:
And read this line:
"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience, we are spiritual beings having a human experience."
I assume you and me, persons, whether having spiritual experiences or human experiences, each one of us is one subject-agent of his experiences, whether human or spiritual experiences.
I looked up astral projection very briefly in the Wikipedia.
My question to you is:
Can the subject agent experiencing the astral projection episode which is I understand exclusively accessed by way of dreams exercise any control over himself in the astral projection state?
Let me explain:
In our existence and operation outside dreams we are normally in control of ourselves, like how much to eat, how to eat properly, what to eat, how to chew our food with lips closed.
Another example, we control how we drive our car.
Still another example, we build a fire in the picnic grounds but we are in control of the fire -- we don't start a fire we can't control, how do we control the fire? by putting it out throwing water on it.
What I want to know from you, a practitioner and advocate of astral projection, is:
Can we decide what to dream about and how to control the dream episode, which is the astral projection world of experience or encounter or even so-called altered consciousness or operation on the ethereal plane or realm?
Thanks for any operative information.
By the way, I am not Bee, but Oslove.