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Thylacoleo carnifex


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#1    Undeadskeptic

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 11:40 PM

Thylacoleo carnifex

that050.jpg

Since the first arrival of humans to the shores of Australia, rumours have existed concerning a greatly-feared, extremely dangerous animal that the modern aboriginie tribes call the Yarri.
Many Aboriginal tribes have legends of the predatory animal, and many consider it to be thriving secretly today, lost in the shadows.

Sightings of the Yarri appear almost exclusively from Queensland, earning it the name 'The Queensland Tiger." Take, for example, this sighting from 1920, recorded by Munna Creek.

"A large animal of the cat tribe standing about 20 yards [18 metres] away, astride of a very dead calf, glaring defiance at us and emitting what I can only describe as a growling whine ... he was nearly the size of a mastiff, of a dirty fawn colour, with a whitish belly and broad blackish tiger stripes. The head was round with promenient lynx-like ears, but unlike that feline there were a tail reaching to the ground and large pads."

Afterwards the creature ran off and threatened the men from far away, before disapearing from sight totally.

This is a remarkably accurate description of Thylacoleo carnifex, the marsupial lion, extinct for ten thousand years at the least.

Wikipedia:

Quote

Pound for pound, Thylacoleo carnifex had the strongest bite of any mammal species living or extinct; a 100 kg (220 lb) T. carnifex had a bite comparable to that of a 250 kg (551 lb) African Lion and is thought to have hunted large animals such as Diprotodon spp. and giant kangaroos. It also had extremely strong forelimbs, with retractable catlike claws, a trait previously unseen in marsupials. Thylacoleo also possessed enormous hooded claws set on large semi-opposable thumbs, which were used to capture and disembowel prey. The long muscular tail was similar to that of a kangaroo. Specialized tail bones called chevrons allowed the animal to tripod itself, and freed the front legs for slashing and grasping.

Its strong forelimbs, retracting claws and incredibly powerful jaws mean that it may have been possible for Thylacoleo to climb trees and perhaps to carry carcasses to keep the kill for itself (similar to the leopard today). Due to its unique predatory morphology, scientists repeatedly claim Thylacoleo to be the most specialized mammalian carnivore of all time.

Thylacoleo was 71 cm (28 in) at the shoulder and about 114 cm (45 in) long from head to tail. The T. carnifex species is the largest, and skulls indicate they averaged 101 kg (223 lb) to 130 kg (287 lb), and individuals reaching 124 kg (273 lb) to 160 kg (353 lb) were common.


The similarities between modern sightings and the prehistoric animal are simply too much to ignore. The yarri is a tree climber, like the Thylacoleo and has a black stripes, a useful adaptation for any tree climber looking for some camoflauge. Both are the sam size, shape and have the same bizaare tusk-like teeth.

Far over two hundred accounts of Yarri sightings have been recorded since 1800, all sharing the remarkable similarities to Thylacoleo.
Fustratingly, many farmers during the 1800's and early 1900's found Yarris to be a miserable pest, and killed many that got onto their property. As the animal was alledgedly very common to anyone who knew the bush well back then, not a single carcasse was preserved as it was assumed that it was a well-known scientific species. Sadly the Yarri has become very rare now, partially due to hunting and the pest control methods used by farmers, but largely due to the amount of natural land being cleared daily in Australia.

Apart from sightings there is a small bank of evidence for the Yarri, including two photographs, footprints, and a video.

The first photograph was taken in 1975 by two beachcombers (One account claims it occured in 1990, so these may be two seperate events, but as the latter failed to produce the actual photo in question I cannot properly determine that.).
They were searching the dunes by the Margaret River in south-west Oz when they cam across the corpse of an animal they had never seen before. They choose not to try and take it but instead took a photograph of the animal. It has since earned the name 'Jaws' dues to it's incredible, Thylacoleo-like teeth.

that050.jpg

No one at the Austrlain Museum or the Queensland Museum was able to identify the animal in the photograph as either a living or dead species. It remains a ture mystery.

The second photograph is part of a terrifying ordeal that four RAAF personnel were put through in 2005.

Wherelightmeetsdark.com:

Quote

The creature

linked-image

The official Royal Australian Air Force newspaper contained an article which describes an encounter between "four trained Air Force members and [their] tracking dog" and a "creature" that "stood about waist high on all fours, had a small head, was spotted and moved like a cat".

The date
The same article says the military personnel were at the base for "exercises Northern Awakening and Kakadu". The Australian Government Department of Defence website gives from 26 July until 12 August 2005 as the timeframe for Excercise Kakadu.

The first sighting
"Leading Aircraftmen Mathew Cash, Cy Holland and Chris Hey ... accompanied by a dog and its handler had been sent out [as part of the excercise] to intercept a Mauveland special forces team that had launched a raid on the base and was withdrawing along a creek line near their position.

"[The group] moved from the creek line to the other side of the quarry, planning to intercept the enemy group as they entered the clearing.

"Leading Aircraftman Cash explained what happened next.

"'We came across the quarry and pulled up, looked around and this creature was sniffing on the ground, following exactly where we‚��d come through,' he said.

"'It pulled up on a mound [about 50m away] and just sat there.

"'We had our night weapon sight and our [night vision] on, watching it, and [the creature] was just sitting there sniffing and watching us.'

"... 'The two front legs were bigger than the two back legs, [with] big shoulder blades,' he said. 'I would have said it was a hyena, but obviously we don‚��t have hyenas here.'

Even the trained tracking and attack dog seemed put off by the sight of the unusual creature; it quietly crept to the back of the group and stayed out of sight.

"[Said Leading Aircraftman Hey], 'It wasn‚��t a pig and it was no dog. Even the dog handler said it wasn‚��t a dog; it didn‚��t move like
a dog.

"'It was weird looking and it was something that weird all never seen before."

The footprint

linked-image

The sighting just described occurred on a full moon. Following the sighting some patrol members scanned the quarry for evidence of the animal and located the unusual paw print.

The second sighting
"Two nights later, the next time the Air Force dog was with the patrol, the creature appeared again at about 5am
and lingered within 10m of the observation post. Again, the ADGs could not identify it."


This horrifying event is easy to write off as fake, but the number of witnesses, the evidence left by the creature, and it's similarities to a Yarri make it at least slightly credible. The photo checks out, it is unlikely to have been modified to produce that effect and the footprint matches that of Thylacoleo.

Sadly the article was sensationalised by the media who calle dit a werewolf, meaning few zoologists took the genuine account seriously.

A video exists of what is purpotedly a Yarri.

linked-image

Link to Article.

The author claims it is a Thylacine, or a Tasmanian Tiger, but it's overall shape is more similar to a Thylacoleo in my opinion.

It would truly be a great day when it is proven that these beasts still roam the Australain rainforests, lost in the shadows.

-UDS

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#2    Stormcrow

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 11:59 PM

I don't know what to say about Thylacoleo, because that first image you've posted looks very much like a Thylacine. The story, too, I think describes something that behaves more like a Thylacine. That is a very, very large gap in time to consider since the Thylacoleo went extinct, and I would think that with such a span to live and procreate, we would have more subsistence to the story--as we do with the Thylacine.

I think it  perfectly plausible this creature is still in existence. It's very difficult to say, with an animal like this having only gone extinct a short time ago, that this creature has truly disappeared. When the "last tiger" died in captivity, it's almost arrogant to say that it was most certainly, 100%, the last Thylacine in existence. I think what we have points to the fact it's still around, and it really shouldn't be such a giant idea to grasp. But, with Thylacoleo, you have both time and environment to consider. Since the Thylancine "died out", the time that's passed has been less than a single drop to the bucket.

I'm not sure what the second picture is illustrating though... it doesn't look anything like... anything, imo. It looks altered and completely unreal, I don't even see a proportionate being in it.


#3    louis_last

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 12:53 AM

I'm pretty sure the picture from the beach is a decomposing koala.

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#4    Undeadskeptic

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 01:40 AM


Quote

I don't know what to say about Thylacoleo, because that first image you've posted looks very much like a Thylacine. The story, too, I think describes something that behaves more like a Thylacine. That is a very, very large gap in time to consider since the Thylacoleo went extinct, and I would think that with such a span to live and procreate, we would have more subsistence to the story--as we do with the Thylacine.


The thylacine is almost certainly still alive IMO.

Quote

I think it  perfectly plausible this creature is still in existence. It's very difficult to say, with an animal like this having only gone extinct a short time ago, that this creature has truly disappeared. When the "last tiger" died in captivity, it's almost arrogant to say that it was most certainly, 100%, the last Thylacine in existence. I think what we have points to the fact it's still around, and it really shouldn't be such a giant idea to grasp. But, with Thylacoleo, you have both time and environment to consider. Since the Thylancine "died out", the time that's passed has been less than a single drop to the bucket.


Yes, we do have to consider the vast time in which it had to keep hidden but if the accounts of farmers shooting heaps in 1800 are true then perhaps it found some neglected area of bushland in which to survive undiscovered for that length of time?

Quote

I'm not sure what the second picture is illustrating though... it doesn't look anything like... anything, imo. It looks altered and completely unreal, I don't even see a proportionate being in it.


I was originally skeptical of the pic too, but upon seeing pictures of birds and wallabies taken by the same camera it is safe to say that the image is not altered. The kangaroo one was clearly not fake, but because bits stuck out randomly (due to the overall crappiness of the camera I guess ) it looked surreal. I'm not saying the monster in querstion is a kangaroo mind, in the kanga pic you can clearly tell what it is despite the surreal-ness

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#5    Stormcrow

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 01:45 AM

Undeadskeptic on Dec 10 2008, 08:40 PM, said:

The thylacine is almost certainly still alive IMO.

Yes, we do have to consider the vast time in which it had to keep hidden but if the accounts of farmers shooting heaps in 1800 are true then perhaps it found some neglected area of bushland in which to survive undiscovered for that length of time?

I was originally skeptical of the pic too, but upon seeing pictures of birds and wallabies taken by the same camera it is safe to say that the image is not altered. The kangaroo one was clearly not fake, but because bits stuck out randomly (due to the overall crappiness of the camera I guess ) it looked surreal. I'm not saying the monster in querstion is a kangaroo mind, in the kanga pic you can clearly tell what it is despite the surreal-ness


I think the Tylacine is alive, 100%. thumbsup.gif It's like the ivory billed woodpecker. Supposedly it was extinct, but only a little bit ago (like two years or something like that?) it was 'rediscovered'.

That's completely possible. Australia is very big, and a lot of it is rather uninhabited in comparison to places like North America.

Could you post links to some of the other pictures? I'm interested in seeing what they look like. It does definitely look surreal--I'd compare it to something out of a video game. laugh.gif


#6    Undeadskeptic

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 02:15 AM

Ebonykrow on Dec 11 2008, 02:45 PM, said:

I think the Tylacine is alive, 100%. thumbsup.gif It's like the ivory billed woodpecker. Supposedly it was extinct, but only a little bit ago (like two years or something like that?) it was 'rediscovered'.

That's completely possible. Australia is very big, and a lot of it is rather uninhabited in comparison to places like North America.

Could you post links to some of the other pictures? I'm interested in seeing what they look like. It does definitely look surreal--I'd compare it to something out of a video game. laugh.gif


I'm not sure about the Ivory Billed Woodpecker. Not enough evidence, so I'm saying it's dead.

Yeah, I'm getting sick of people saying "The PNW! The PNW!" If there were that many unknown beasties living in the goddam PNW it would be a goddam ZOO for chrissake!

Sozzlecopter, no can do right now. I need to get my dial up to work on my laptop again so I can find them and upload. They're saved on my laptop coz the link on the net is corrupt I think, but it was a while back. A google of RAAF camera kangaroo might work?


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#7    Stormcrow

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 02:25 AM

Undeadskeptic on Dec 10 2008, 10:15 PM, said:

I'm not sure about the Ivory Billed Woodpecker. Not enough evidence, so I'm saying it's dead.

Yeah, I'm getting sick of people saying "The PNW! The PNW!" If there were that many unknown beasties living in the goddam PNW it would be a goddam ZOO for chrissake!

Sozzlecopter, no can do right now. I need to get my dial up to work on my laptop again so I can find them and upload. They're saved on my laptop coz the link on the net is corrupt I think, but it was a while back. A google of RAAF camera kangaroo might work?


Oh, no! It was actually found, there's video and everything from April of... 06 or 07 or something. I really can't remember, but it was everywhere. They found it in Arkansas or something.

The Google search didn't come up with anything other than airplanes. XD

(PNW? I'm not familiar with acronyms, sorry. D: I'm lame like that.)


#8    Undeadskeptic

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 02:57 AM

Ebonykrow on Dec 11 2008, 03:25 PM, said:

Oh, no! It was actually found, there's video and everything from April of... 06 or 07 or something. I really can't remember, but it was everywhere. They found it in Arkansas or something.

The Google search didn't come up with anything other than airplanes. XD

(PNW? I'm not familiar with acronyms, sorry. D: I'm lame like that.)


Oh real? Coolio!

laugh.gif Soz for that!

(Between youy and me, I have no idea what it stands for! In the bigfoot topics they say that's where BF lives I think laugh.gif)

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#9    louis_last

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 03:01 AM

PNW - pacific north west.

the night vision image looks more like a dinosaur than a big cat? also i don't know how big those trees are but unless they are very small trees then that thing must surely be bigger than the witnesses describe?

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#10    psyche101

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 06:14 AM

Ebonykrow on Dec 11 2008, 11:45 AM, said:

That's completely possible. Australia is very big, and a lot of it is rather uninhabited in comparison to places like North America.


Lots of that uninhabited land is pretty harsh.

The Thylacine has been extinct on the mainland for over 2,000 years though, the extinction is attributed to competition from indigenous humans and invasive dingoes, Tasmania was where the last of the species resided. That was where we wiped them out, along with the Tasmanian indigenous culture. Every Tasmanian Aborigine was also erradicated. Almost every Tassie indigineous language has been lost.

We managed to wipe out the people, why not the Thylacine?

Of course it is not a ridiculous or impossible notion, David Fleay caught one after the extinction was announced, but it escaped the trap. I do not discount David Fleay. I feel there is no doubt the species survived the 1930 extinction date, but was the MVP big enough? What a pity David Fleay did not manage a capture. Had he done so, I doubt the animal would be considered extinct today.

Undeadsketic, PM a member called Tia. She had a print analysed in her backyard of a suspected Thylacoleo Carnifax. She is from the Blue Mountains. Intruiging.

Personally I find the idea hard to believe (I know, that is going to SHOCK a great deal of people).

Mostly because the creature would be feeding on livestock, which is heavily monitored and the bite would be unmistakeable. Having grown up on a farm, I have reasonbable experience in hunting predators.
I am quite sure the early famers would have been mistaken, or a little drunk. I assure you, I never heard such a rumour in rural Queensland. We have Ostriches, Deer, German Shepards and Feral cats, but never seen or heard of someone claiming a Thylacoleo. As mentioned, this is a big place, and avoiding men with guns 200 years ago was not all that hard. Some would be still around, and killing livestock, and one bite mark from this unique beastie would be easily identified.


I think a Tassie Thylacine a much better chance of still being around.

What's Rexy got to say on the Thylacoleo?

*Chuckles - prolly has a pet one*

Edited by psyche101, 11 December 2008 - 06:16 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#11    Undeadskeptic

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 07:23 AM

louis_last on Dec 11 2008, 04:01 PM, said:

PNW - pacific north west.

the night vision image looks more like a dinosaur than a big cat? also i don't know how big those trees are but unless they are very small trees then that thing must surely be bigger than the witnesses describe?


Thanks for that!

You have a very good point. If we assume the footprint is from somthing else then that picture could well be the very first to depict a burrunjor!!! (Google it)

psyche101 on Dec 11 2008, 07:14 PM, said:

Lots of that uninhabited land is pretty harsh.

The Thylacine has been extinct on the mainland for over 2,000 years though, the extinction is attributed to competition from indigenous humans and invasive dingoes, Tasmania was where the last of the species resided. That was where we wiped them out, along with the Tasmanian indigenous culture. Every Tasmanian Aborigine was also erradicated. Almost every Tassie indigineous language has been lost.

We managed to wipe out the people, why not the Thylacine?

Of course it is not a ridiculous or impossible notion, David Fleay caught one after the extinction was announced, but it escaped the trap. I do not discount David Fleay. I feel there is no doubt the species survived the 1930 extinction date, but was the MVP big enough? What a pity David Fleay did not manage a capture. Had he done so, I doubt the animal would be considered extinct today.

Undeadsketic, PM a member called Tia. She had a print analysed in her backyard of a suspected Thylacoleo Carnifax. She is from the Blue Mountains. Intruiging.

Personally I find the idea hard to believe (I know, that is going to SHOCK a great deal of people).

Mostly because the creature would be feeding on livestock, which is heavily monitored and the bite would be unmistakeable. Having grown up on a farm, I have reasonbable experience in hunting predators.
I am quite sure the early famers would have been mistaken, or a little drunk. I assure you, I never heard such a rumour in rural Queensland. We have Ostriches, Deer, German Shepards and Feral cats, but never seen or heard of someone claiming a Thylacoleo. As mentioned, this is a big place, and avoiding men with guns 200 years ago was not all that hard. Some would be still around, and killing livestock, and one bite mark from this unique beastie would be easily identified.


I think a Tassie Thylacine a much better chance of still being around.

What's Rexy got to say on the Thylacoleo?

*Chuckles - prolly has a pet one*


I've got an obsession with Oz now that my best mate's living there. With his hot girlfriend. I mean, damn is she fine. I mean she is the most damndest finest thing on the planet! I mean like holy crap oh my god is she damn fine or what?! That sort of fine.

'We wiped out the people" laugh.gif Oh you whacky Australians.

Tias account sounds very interesting, I shall PM.

Ole' Gilroy? Dunno, still tryna get hold of his book. (100 BUCKS? WTF?!!! We all know it's BS anyway!)



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#12    psyche101

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 07:34 AM

Undeadskeptic on Dec 11 2008, 05:23 PM, said:

Thanks for that!

You have a very good point. If we assume the footprint is from somthing else then that picture could well be the very first to depict a burrunjor!!! (Google it)



I've got an obsession with Oz now that my best mate's living there. With his hot girlfriend. I mean, damn is she fine. I mean she is the most damndest finest thing on the planet! I mean like holy crap oh my god is she damn fine or what?! That sort of fine.

'We wiped out the people" laugh.gif Oh you whacky Australians.

Tias account sounds very interesting, I shall PM.

Ole' Gilroy? Dunno, still tryna get hold of his book. (100 BUCKS? WTF?!!! We all know it's BS anyway!)



Well, when are you coming over, and bringing your mate and his missus around for a beer...............................

That would be those whacky British!

Tia has picture thumbsup.gif

hrrmzz, I am sure Rexy will have a tale on Thylacoleo Carnifax. $100.00 Damn. No online versions? devil.gif

Burrunjor's ate all the Thylacoleo Carnifax's.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#13    Undeadskeptic

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 08:33 AM

psyche101 on Dec 11 2008, 08:34 PM, said:

Well, when are you coming over, and bringing your mate and his missus around for a beer...............................

That would be those whacky British!

Tia has picture thumbsup.gif

hrrmzz, I am sure Rexy will have a tale on Thylacoleo Carnifax. $100.00 Damn. No online versions? devil.gif

Burrunjor's ate all the Thylacoleo Carnifax's.


Don't worry, I'm heading 'round shortly. ( I am a New Zealander after all )

Oh no, his gal is an Ozzie. C'mon she must be australian, I said she was hot. (Oh snap!)

Oh those whacky british with their... tea... and, uh... scones... and... ummm... I hear they have a bunch of rocks in a circle on a hill or somthing. Wow, I'm already dozing off laugh.gif

She has a photo? Woahz, did she start a thread on it at any point? I know ole' Rexy boys said it a billion times before, but those Blue Mountains are damn remote.

NO online versions! I'm melting... melting...

You see, I'm faced with a choice. Either I use my money to fly to Aus for a few weeks in the holidays, or buy his book. Without the book I go to Austrlia, but I have no idea where the cryptids are! But if I do buy the book, I don't go to australia! And if a tree snaps in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? I just don't know!

Actually I have nothing remotely witty to say about burrunjor. huh.gif Weird...




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#14    Stormcrow

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 02:50 PM

Undeadskeptic on Dec 10 2008, 09:57 PM, said:

Oh real? Coolio!

laugh.gif Soz for that!

(Between youy and me, I have no idea what it stands for! In the bigfoot topics they say that's where BF lives I think laugh.gif)


Yup! I went and Googled some stuff, here's some articles about it:

http://www.nature.org/ivorybill/ / http://www.houstonaudubon.org/index.cfm?Me...;MenuGroup=Home / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivory-billed_Woodpecker

XDD! We're in the same boat then, thank goodness.

louis_last on Dec 10 2008, 10:01 PM, said:

PNW - pacific north west.


Thank youuuuuuu! ♥!

psyche101 on Dec 11 2008, 01:14 AM, said:

Lots of that uninhabited land is pretty harsh.

The Thylacine has been extinct on the mainland for over 2,000 years though, the extinction is attributed to competition from indigenous humans and invasive dingoes, Tasmania was where the last of the species resided. That was where we wiped them out, along with the Tasmanian indigenous culture. Every Tasmanian Aborigine was also erradicated. Almost every Tassie indigineous language has been lost.

We managed to wipe out the people, why not the Thylacine?...


Very good points. I still can't help but think the Thylacine has a lot going for it though. Though the videos are blurry and the reports of predation a bit sketchy, I just have one of those stupid feelings that says it's gotta be there. But when you see things like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwOMoC40q6k

and these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUM4B2B3SC4...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7hqwat5Uv8...feature=related

It seems a little more real than before. Some of the similarities to the creatures in those videos is just uncanny--and I'm sure you've seen them before. (Though the first one just reminds me of a mangy dingo, who knows...?)

Like the cougars here in KY, the sightings are definate, and the evidence is there, but then it comes down to just how reasonable is it to say they actually exist here. How plausible is it, and are we just mistaking things because we want to say something strange has happened?

But, yeah, that episode of Animal X Classic convinced me ever so long ago that the thylacine is still alive. laugh.gif They've got that way about them you can't deny. XD (Plus, I'm just a sucker.)


#15    GreatFenris

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 03:28 PM

*shudders*Had I seen that thing the RAAF personnell claimed to have seen I'd most likey would hae opened fire with any service rifle. THat thing looks downright...<i>Evil</i>
Interesting stories and fun thread. thumbsup.gif





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