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New Warfront Opens in Iraq


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#1    Erikl

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Posted 05 April 2004 - 11:26 AM

New Warfront Opens in Iraq Three Months before Handover

DEBKAfile Special Analysis

April 5, 2004, 1:00 PM (GMT+02:00)

In the last 24 hours, Shiite radicals of Baghdad and southern Iraq have gone on the warpath, vying with the Sunni Triangle’s al Qaeda and Baathist guerrillas in anti-US violence. One year after ending the combat phase of the Iraq war, the US-led coalition finds itself fighting therefore on the two fronts.

Monday, April 5, US forces opened a major offensive called Vigilant Resolve against Iraqi guerrilla-al Qaeda strongholds in Falluja and Ramadi, leaving many casualties. They quickly blocked highways linking the two towns to Baghdad and the Jordanian frontier.

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This is bad. Really bad. ph34r.gif  

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#2    jimma

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Posted 05 April 2004 - 11:53 AM

agreed, methinks we could be seeing the beginning of WWIII sad.gif

There was never any terror link between the Ba'athists and Al Qeada, there is NOW.  Cheers George, Cheers Tony.  You've really made the world a safer place -NOT

Edited by jimma, 05 April 2004 - 11:55 AM.


#3    Stamford

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Posted 05 April 2004 - 12:19 PM

The war has united many disparate groups, which was always the fear amongst those who opposed this war in the first place.

As commented on another topic on this board, we are now harvesting the hatred of a people who all view us as a Western Crusade against Islam.

My money is on the following:

We will continue to suffer more and more Coalition deaths in the forthcoming months as violence against us increases.

An interim Iraqi Council will be formed as a prelude to the US leaving Iraq and these people will be assassinated or react to the violence in a way not unlike Saddam's regieme.

We will be forced to remain in Iraq to protect the new Council, Army and Police and have to turn a blind eye to the violence they will use to put down the numberous unprisings that will occur.

We have opened a hornets nest.



"The future's uncertain and the end is always near."

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"When you laugh about people, so very, very lonely their only desire is to die, well I'm afraid it doesn't make me smile. I wish I could laugh. But that joke isn't funny anymore, it's too close to home and it's too near the bone... "

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#4    Naveed

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Posted 05 April 2004 - 03:00 PM

QUOTE (jimma @ Apr 5 2004, 12:53 PM)
agreed, methinks we could be seeing the beginning of WWIII sad.gif

There was never any terror link between the Ba'athists and Al Qeada, there is NOW.  Cheers George, Cheers Tony.  You've really made the world a safer place -NOT

I don't really consider it the start of WWIII because it's all taking place in one spot. Sure there are other nations then us involved, but not on a scale comparable to a world war. I think all we're doing is pissing off fundamentalist muslims, many of which are in Al-Qeada or other terror groups. It will eventually stop, whether we either abandon Iraq or just say forget it, or use more force then we are now, or say screw and nuke the country just because the factions and regimes don't want to cooperate with us just because we're not muslim.  


#5    mowo

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Posted 05 April 2004 - 03:06 PM

I think we should start an intensive bombing campaign.

Oh wait, we already tried that...


#6    Erikl

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Posted 05 April 2004 - 03:20 PM

Naveed, I don't agree.
I believe it is a world war, but of a different kind then the other two.
This IS a GLOBAL (aka world) WAR AGAINST TERRORISM.
Almost the entire world is involved:

The allies: USA, UK, Itally, Poland, Spain, Denmark, Australia, Morrocco, Turkey, Israel, Jordan, Russia and China (fighting each against their enemies alone and don't want others to interfere), Indonesia, Kenya, Pakistan (uncertain), India, Japan and recentlly Libya.


The enemy: Muslim terror groups and their supporters (known supporters: Iran, Syria, ex leader of Iraq, former regime of Afghanistan, N. Korea for selling any country and organization Nukers and missiles. Unknown or uncertain: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Egypt).

In the role of America before Pearl Harbor: France, Germany, Belgium and the rest of the EU.

Edited by Erikl, 05 April 2004 - 03:21 PM.

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#7    Stamford

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Posted 05 April 2004 - 03:28 PM

I agree Erikl, this is an ongoing war that is surfacing in various parts of the world and at different times.

The Al Quida network operates in a hit and run style: Bali, Istanbul, Madrid and USA, not forgetting the recently thwarted attempts in my own country.

I do not belive that there was any connection between Iraq and Al Quida, not at the time of the invasion, although I believe that they are probably in the country now stirring up resentment against the coalition.

What the West must demonstrate now is that we are not against Islam, just the fundamentalist faction that wants to wage war on us.



"The future's uncertain and the end is always near."

Jim Morrison

"When you laugh about people, so very, very lonely their only desire is to die, well I'm afraid it doesn't make me smile. I wish I could laugh. But that joke isn't funny anymore, it's too close to home and it's too near the bone... "

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#8    jimma

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 07:45 AM

QUOTE (Erikl @ Apr 5 2004, 04:20 PM)
Naveed, I don't agree.
I believe it is a world war, but of a different kind then the other two.
This IS a GLOBAL (aka world) WAR AGAINST TERRORISM.
Almost the entire world is involved:

The allies: USA, UK, Itally, Poland, Spain, Denmark, Australia, Morrocco, Turkey, Israel, Jordan, Russia and China (fighting each against their enemies alone and don't want others to interfere), Indonesia, Kenya, Pakistan (uncertain), India, Japan and recentlly Libya.


The enemy: Muslim terror groups and their supporters (known supporters: Iran, Syria, ex leader of Iraq, former regime of Afghanistan, N. Korea for selling any country and organization Nukers and missiles. Unknown or uncertain: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Egypt).

In the role of America before Pearl Harbor: France, Germany, Belgium and the rest of the EU.

Agreed but that is absolutely not what I meant.  This is going to expand to include Nations, not just fundamentalists.  WWII started in a very similar way. ie. UK saying in 1939 thats 1939 not 1942 "No Mr Hitler, you are a very bad man etc etc etc" then WALLOP


#9    Erikl

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 12:00 PM

QUOTE
Agreed but that is absolutely not what I meant. This is going to expand to include Nations, not just fundamentalists. WWII started in a very similar way. ie. UK saying in 1939 thats 1939 not 1942 "No Mr Hitler, you are a very bad man etc etc etc" then WALLOP


Huh? huh.gif  blink.gif  wacko.gif  

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"We live in a world where when Christians kill Muslims, it's a crusade; When Jews kill Muslims, it's a massacre; When Muslims kill Muslims, it's the weather channel. Nobody cares"

#10    jimma

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 01:34 PM

QUOTE (Erikl @ Apr 6 2004, 01:00 PM)
QUOTE
Agreed but that is absolutely not what I meant. This is going to expand to include Nations, not just fundamentalists. WWII started in a very similar way. ie. UK saying in 1939 thats 1939 not 1942 "No Mr Hitler, you are a very bad man etc etc etc" then WALLOP


Huh? huh.gif  blink.gif  wacko.gif

The allies: USA, UK, Itally, Poland, Spain, Denmark, Australia, Morrocco, Turkey, Israel, Jordan, Russia and China (fighting each against their enemies alone and don't want others to interfere), Indonesia, Kenya, Pakistan (uncertain), India, Japan and recentlly Libya.



Only the UKs useless politicians are allies, i think you'll find that most Brits are totally against this war and have NO respect for the Bush administration.  


#11    bathory

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 01:51 PM

its a war we can't win, its as simple as that, so i say, kill as many of them as we can, although i say this, I respect Bush for trying, instead bowing to a minority of asshats

either that, or go the Israely option and build a wall are the middle east and let them wipe each other out until they decide to evolve:P


#12    Stamford

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 02:19 PM

QUOTE
its a war we can't win, its as simple as that, so i say, kill as many of them as we can, although i say this, I respect Bush for trying


What for trying to kill as many of them as he could?  whistling2.gif  

"The future's uncertain and the end is always near."

Jim Morrison

"When you laugh about people, so very, very lonely their only desire is to die, well I'm afraid it doesn't make me smile. I wish I could laugh. But that joke isn't funny anymore, it's too close to home and it's too near the bone... "

The Smiths

#13    thebarman

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 02:47 PM

I'm not up to date with American politics, so maybe someone can fill me in...

..if later on this year George "Dubya" Bush gets voted out and the other party gets in does that mean the war on terror will end as far as America is concerned?

And if so, is that a good  original.gif or a bad  sad.gif  thing?

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#14    Morpheus

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 09:37 PM

I am by no means an expert on these matters. I am just a man so you will forgive me if I over simplify, but it seems to me we have come to a crossroads, and yet again we are faced with yet more blowback from the first two world wars. Where WWII was in many ways a causal effect from the sanctions placed on Germany courtesy of the treaty of Versailles, and the middle east crisis a result of the redistribution of the former Ottoman empire after WWI, as well as the rending of Palestine in 1949 by the newly ordained UN, thus creating the state of Israel (I am NOT anti Israel, so don’t blitz me on this one) as masters of our own fate we have failed miserably, it seems to me we as a global community have to get our collective $H!T together.

I refuse to lay blame on any single nation for our woes, since we as a people have this annoying habit of looking to one power to solve all the worlds injustices, the United States right or wrong is at war, and given the choice of supporting suicide bombers who will blow up crowded malls or siding with the USA, I will choose the latter.

As for solving the worlds problems, the occupation of Iraq will not end terrorism or injustice, however, a stand MUST be made, nearly a century of hate will not be wiped out in one campaign, anyone who thinks so is truly naive, but the stand MUST be made and held, the world has to stand united in this effort, this I fear is where the United Nations has failed, much like its predecessor the League of Nations.

Cultural identities need to be preserved, but not at the cost of human rights and freedoms. Whether or not you support the war on this we must agree, and if we can find a common ground on this, perhaps there are other things on which we can agree. That is how accords are reached, the only catch is, BOTH sides need to listen, and at this time, neither side is even talking to the other.



#15    Gazz

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 11:35 PM

I think everyone could see this coming.

What is scarey to me is the recent
unification of the many Shiite factions
in Iraq.

It seems kind of ironic when you look at
the source of this.. it all began when
we closed down a Shiite run news paper
that was strongly anti-american.

We in the western culture take pride in
our freedom of speech.. but we shut down
a news paper?

It was said that this paper was printing
lies. and had to be shut down.

Did we underestimate their reaction?

As of right now in fighting west of Baghdad
12 US marines have been killed... and the
Shiites are putting up a strong fight.

I am afraid that before this is done
we are going to have to kill thousands
of them.

Think about it.. these men (Shiite) are
very well armed, and they were unwilling
to fight for Saddam in this war, but now
we have given them a reason to fight,
something they are willing to die for.

And then of course there will be further
unification among the Shiite factions.

I think the last thing we need in this
war is to make it look like it is now
the USA against the Shiites or Islam.

It will only cause more and more radical
nuts to cross into Iraq to join the
'jihad'.

Of course with the election in the USA
not that far off and the scheduled hand
over of power to the Iraqis in June
things will only get worse.

I thought this was all being done to
make americans lose support for the war
and demand for us to pull out of Iraq.

But it seems it is more a battle with
radical Islam.

This is really one F'ed up situation no
matter how you look at it or what your
opinion is.

We win if we lose and we are really damned
if we do and damned if we don't.

Gazz

Edited by Gazz, 06 April 2004 - 11:44 PM.





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