Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Bara's "Ken Johnston Jet Pilot" Claim


  • Please log in to reply
62 replies to this topic

#1    JimOberg

JimOberg

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,798 posts
  • Joined:03 Sep 2007

Posted 07 January 2009 - 03:30 PM

The Hoagland/Bara book 'Dork Mission' relies heavily on claims of lunar imagery falsification and coverup, on testimony of Ken Johnston, supposedly the head of the photo archive department at the Lunar Receiving Lab during the Apollo program. It accuses, inter alia, Thornton Page of falsifying raw lunar surface imagery.

Johnston's fundamental credibility depends on his status at the time -- a High School graduate in his late 20's who, he claims, was put in charge of all the scientists doing photo archiving work. He was then ordered to purge original images from the archives, so goes the claim.

In a series of credentials-claims, Johnston begins with his pilot status. Here's how Bara recently restated it:

http://darkmission.blogspot.com/2009/01/blog-post.html

Bara: “I have no reason to ask Ken if he was “ever a pilot, as [my] book insists,” because I know for a fact he was. During his training, he flew T-37’s, T-28’s, T-2J’s, DC-3’s and F-4 Phantom’s. I also know that as a civilian he flew Piper Colts, Cessna 150’s, 172’s, Grumman single engine planes, Piper twin Aztec's and logged hundreds of hours on the Boeing 727, 757, 767, and 747 simulators.
Oh, and he also logged over 3,000 hours in the Lunar Module and the LM simulators, where he taught all of the Apollo astronauts to fly the LM. I'm not sure why NASA would hire him as a flight instructor if he was never "a pilot, as [my] book insists,” but I'll leave it to you to work out the logical contortions of that one.”

But Johnston's military records, obstained via FOIA (see www.stolenvalor.com for how-to), showed Ken Johnston, an E-5 (Lance Corporal), enrolled in MARCAD (Marine Air Cadet) training, receiving no completion certificate, and returning to his previous duties at El Toro as an F-4 avionics maintenace tech. He separated from the USMC with that grade and duty.

His service was honorable and competent, and I appreciate his stepping forward -- at a time when large segments of the nation wanted the other side to win. Likewise -- so I can presume -- commendable work on the Apollo program, at NASA, without any need to exaggerate it. The LM 'switch monkeys' were not astronaut instructors, there was an entirely different team for that purpose, and those lunar module flight trainers never needed 'test pilots', they needed avionics testing and maintenance as described in the letters you have posted -- honorable and precision work, no doubt about it. But not exactly as hyped.

Here's his photo from that FOIA file:



His training summary lists his aviation cadet training as 'incomplete'.

Attached File  johnston_03x.JPG   182.17K   37 downloads


Now, where's any documentation that shows Johnston ever completed any pilot training or certification? Bara refuses to provide it.

I also have talked with lots of people who had served in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory, where Ken did creditable and honorable work, I've found out, as a lunar sample shipping clerk. As far as I can tell, the LRL never even HAD a "photographic division", that was an entirely different division in a different building. There's no indication he ever had anyone else working for him. His responsibility there has been exaggerated, I conclude.
  
I've also talked with the head of the "Reformed Baptist Seminary" (or whatever) in Colorado, the organization that Ken got his 'doctor of philosophy' certificate (the one that is presented as a "PhD in Meta Physics"). The guy I talked to even signed that certificate, as posted on Bara's site -- look at his name. He told me all about the actual requirements for being mailed such a piece of paper. Academic achievement had nothing to do with it.

Johnston seems to be a sweet human being who did honorable service to his country in the military and in the Apollo program, but whose qualifications as a credible expert seem stretched. Those qualifications could be established, even at this late date, by the display of relevant documents. So far, apparently, nothing but bluster and bluff.

Edited by JimOberg, 07 January 2009 - 03:34 PM.


#2    eqgumby

eqgumby

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,576 posts
  • Joined:15 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida Panhandle

  • If you have genuine psi-powers, you can change the world overnight. So do it, or stop playing Dragon-Ball Z with my brain!

Posted 07 January 2009 - 03:35 PM

Shocking!
You mean, he's NOT a "top military" person?

Credentials/Background<--This is a link!


It's not about tolerance and it's certainly not about searching for truth. It's about the chic of the intelligentsia. ---  Harmon-E Cherry
http://chzgifs.files...chucknorris.gif

#3    JimOberg

JimOberg

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,798 posts
  • Joined:03 Sep 2007

Posted 07 January 2009 - 03:36 PM

The period when he attended aviation cadet training in Florida -- and returned without any certification.

Attached File  johnston_02x.jpg   203.08K   23 downloads


#4    badeskov

badeskov

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,959 posts
  • Joined:27 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please - Mark Twain

Posted 07 January 2009 - 04:40 PM

JimOberg on Jan 7 2009, 07:30 AM, said:

The Hoagland/Bara book 'Dork Mission' relies heavily on claims of lunar imagery falsification and coverup, on testimony of Ken Johnston, supposedly the head of the photo archive department at the Lunar Receiving Lab during the Apollo program. It accuses, inter alia, Thornton Page of falsifying raw lunar surface imagery.

Johnston's fundamental credibility depends on his status at the time -- a High School graduate in his late 20's who, he claims, was put in charge of all the scientists doing photo archiving work. He was then ordered to purge original images from the archives, so goes the claim.

In a series of credentials-claims, Johnston begins with his pilot status. Here's how Bara recently restated it:

http://darkmission.blogspot.com/2009/01/blog-post.html

Bara: "I have no reason to ask Ken if he was "ever a pilot, as [my] book insists," because I know for a fact he was. During his training, he flew T-37's, T-28's, T-2J's, DC-3's and F-4 Phantom's. I also know that as a civilian he flew Piper Colts, Cessna 150's, 172's, Grumman single engine planes, Piper twin Aztec's and logged hundreds of hours on the Boeing 727, 757, 767, and 747 simulators.
Oh, and he also logged over 3,000 hours in the Lunar Module and the LM simulators, where he taught all of the Apollo astronauts to fly the LM. I'm not sure why NASA would hire him as a flight instructor if he was never "a pilot, as [my] book insists," but I'll leave it to you to work out the logical contortions of that one."

But Johnston's military records, obstained via FOIA (see www.stolenvalor.com for how-to), showed Ken Johnston, an E-5 (Lance Corporal), enrolled in MARCAD (Marine Air Cadet) training, receiving no completion certificate, and returning to his previous duties at El Toro as an F-4 avionics maintenace tech. He separated from the USMC with that grade and duty.

His service was honorable and competent, and I appreciate his stepping forward -- at a time when large segments of the nation wanted the other side to win. Likewise -- so I can presume -- commendable work on the Apollo program, at NASA, without any need to exaggerate it. The LM 'switch monkeys' were not astronaut instructors, there was an entirely different team for that purpose, and those lunar module flight trainers never needed 'test pilots', they needed avionics testing and maintenance as described in the letters you have posted -- honorable and precision work, no doubt about it. But not exactly as hyped.

Here's his photo from that FOIA file:



His training summary lists his aviation cadet training as 'incomplete'.

Attached File  johnston_03x.JPG   182.17K   37 downloads


Now, where's any documentation that shows Johnston ever completed any pilot training or certification? Bara refuses to provide it.

I also have talked with lots of people who had served in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory, where Ken did creditable and honorable work, I've found out, as a lunar sample shipping clerk. As far as I can tell, the LRL never even HAD a "photographic division", that was an entirely different division in a different building. There's no indication he ever had anyone else working for him. His responsibility there has been exaggerated, I conclude.
  
I've also talked with the head of the "Reformed Baptist Seminary" (or whatever) in Colorado, the organization that Ken got his 'doctor of philosophy' certificate (the one that is presented as a "PhD in Meta Physics"). The guy I talked to even signed that certificate, as posted on Bara's site -- look at his name. He told me all about the actual requirements for being mailed such a piece of paper. Academic achievement had nothing to do with it.

Johnston seems to be a sweet human being who did honorable service to his country in the military and in the Apollo program, but whose qualifications as a credible expert seem stretched. Those qualifications could be established, even at this late date, by the display of relevant documents. So far, apparently, nothing but bluster and bluff.


Jim, thanks a lot for your time and effort. I hope you don't mind, but I took the liberty of saving your text and scanned document for future reference thumbsup.gif

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#5    JimOberg

JimOberg

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,798 posts
  • Joined:03 Sep 2007

Posted 18 February 2009 - 02:48 PM

QUOTE (JimOberg @ Jan 7 2009, 03:30 PM)
The Hoagland/Bara book 'Dork Mission' relies heavily on claims of lunar imagery falsification and coverup, on testimony of Ken Johnston, supposedly the head of the photo archive department at the Lunar Receiving Lab during the Apollo program. It accuses, inter alia, Thornton Page of falsifying raw lunar surface imagery.

Johnston's fundamental credibility depends on his status at the time -- a High School graduate in his late 20's who, he claims, was put in charge of all the scientists doing photo archiving work. He was then ordered to purge original images from the archives, so goes the claim... [snip]
  
I've also talked with the head of the "Reformed Baptist Seminary" (or whatever) in Colorado, the organization that Ken got his 'doctor of philosophy' certificate (the one that is presented as a "PhD in Meta Physics"). The guy I talked to even signed that certificate, as posted on Bara's site -- look at his name. He told me all about the actual requirements for being mailed such a piece of paper. Academic achievement had nothing to do with it.

Johnston seems to be a sweet human being who did honorable service to his country in the military and in the Apollo program, but whose qualifications as a credible expert seem stretched. Those qualifications could be established, even at this late date, by the display of relevant documents. So far, apparently, nothing but bluster and bluff.


Here are the details on his questionable (to phrase it politely) 'PhD' that he used on his  CV for the NASA 'Solar system ambassador' program. When they asked him about documentation for it, he quit in a huff and claimed he was 'fired' (from a volunteer position, no less). Bara/Hoagland still insist he is a real "Dr.".

---



The 'Doctor of Metaphysics' certificate is found here:  http://bp1.blogger.c...ics_Deploma.jpg (note the misspelling of 'diploma', possibly deliberate to avoid a clear-cut false claim).

The issuing authority was identified as the 'Reform Baptist Theological Seminary', from a company named "Colorado Reform Baptist Church, Inc."  Remember, this is the 'school' that when you google search it, it only returns links to Bara's Blog and a porn site and one or two generic Baptist seminaries elsewhere. There's no other trace of the school. Nobody else on the entire Internet seems to have cited it as a credential.

In November 2007 I located and talked with William Conklin, the man identified on the 'deploma' as "Dean of the Seminary". He gave me (and doubtless would give anyone else who called him at 303-455-0837) a much better understanding of what the piece of paper represents. To begin with, he insisted that a 'Doctor of Metaphysics' degree is NOT a 'PhD' and nobody has any right to term it as such. The 'school' was never accredited and never had any academic standing. He had set up as a money-making venture and operated for about a decade, in the 1980s.

Currently, Conklin runs an anti-IRS site (http://www.anti-irs.com/) telling people they can avoid paying the federal income tax. This claim is criticized at http://tpgurus.wikid...william-conklin.

His description of the "'Reform Baptist Theological Seminary'" seems to meet the characteristics of a 'diploma mill', a mail-order certificate printing operation. Many hundreds of such organizations have operated around the US and the world in recent decades.

See Wikipedia's description of a 'diploma mill'..
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Diploma_mill

Government agencies, in particular, have taken a very, very dim view of employees using such certificates in place of genuine, accredited degrees, for hiring or assignments or promotion. In practice this has been a firing offense for decades, or – if the certificate was falsely used for monetary gain (NOT done in Johnston's case) – criminal prosecution. Using such certificates to expropriate the title "Dr." is also considered fraud. Those guys mean business, as the web links detail.


#6    JimOberg

JimOberg

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,798 posts
  • Joined:03 Sep 2007

Posted 18 February 2009 - 04:09 PM



If there remains any doubt that 'William Conklin' of current anti-IRS fame is the signatory of Johnston's 'Doctor of Philosophy' certificate, see an interesting Colorado lawsuit involving the “Colorado Reform Baptist Church, Inc.” and the “Reverend” William Conklin and his wife Mary Ann Tavery, at
http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/3...23.91-1376.html




#7    DONTEATUS

DONTEATUS

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 16,693 posts
  • Joined:15 Feb 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet TEXAS

Posted 18 February 2009 - 06:41 PM

Some of these people want so much to be part of something,they should just sit back and be something. To be a fake at anything is only hurting oneself. The rest of us can just try to be understanding of mankinds other side.

This is a Work in Progress!

#8    JimOberg

JimOberg

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,798 posts
  • Joined:03 Sep 2007

Posted 18 February 2009 - 06:56 PM

DONTEATUS on Feb 18 2009, 06:41 PM, said:

Some of these people want so much to be part of something,they should just sit back and be something. To be a fake at anything is only hurting oneself. The rest of us can just try to be understanding of mankinds other side.



That is a compassionate and insightful comment. It's often the case that we see people tell and retell a dramatic story they heard and gradually migrate themselves into the action, and eventually to the center of the action. I see the process as quite innocent and largely unintentional, but ego-driven and ultimately misleading. Many famous UFO legends can be attributed to this process, in which a newspaper clipping, a half-heard broadcast news flash, or even a dream, becomes a story, and then a story personally witnessed, and then a story participated in, and ultimately led, by the narrator. I'm sure a dozen examples spring into everyone's mind here. It is the ultimate snare lying in wait for all oral historians -- whether of wars, or politics, or crime, or -- UFOs.





#9    Eieam Wun

Eieam Wun

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 316 posts
  • Joined:28 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:long island ny

  • I'm not a pillow....don't sleep on me!

Posted 18 February 2009 - 08:04 PM

Propaganda anyone?

JimOberg on Feb 18 2009, 01:56 PM, said:

That is a compassionate and insightful comment. It's often the case that we see people tell and retell a dramatic story they heard and gradually migrate themselves into the action, and eventually to the center of the action. I see the process as quite innocent and largely unintentional, but ego-driven and ultimately misleading. Many famous UFO legends can be attributed to this process, in which a newspaper clipping, a half-heard broadcast news flash, or even a dream, becomes a story, and then a story personally witnessed, and then a story participated in, and ultimately led, by the narrator. I'm sure a dozen examples spring into everyone's mind here. It is the ultimate snare lying in wait for all oral historians -- whether of wars, or politics, or crime, or -- UFOs.


man you sure get around, every now and then I search other forums to see if I like it or not, and I know I saw you on at least atlantis rising, and at least another forum (not to mention the darkmission blog) where someone else was saying the same thing I am saying.  Dude why do you care so much about richard hoagland/bara, let me guess cause he's miss leading people and you are here to set the record straight?  Well you've come to the right place, lol.  Who cares about hoagland, he is entertainment, and as long as he and anyone else that people feel are misleading laymen, aren't affecting policy, let it be, I'll say this, the only ones your convincing are those who weren't already convinced and had reservations, those that believe will still do so.  But with that said, please by all means continue on... alien.gif

Edited by Eieam Wun, 18 February 2009 - 08:05 PM.

intelligence works to gather information
awarness effortlessly gathers information
and one can be aware of their intelligence
...but vis versa is unintelligible

http://www.myspace.com/thewhynsos  see we

#10    DONTEATUS

DONTEATUS

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 16,693 posts
  • Joined:15 Feb 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet TEXAS

Posted 18 February 2009 - 08:20 PM

So does this mean that we shall ask Deep Thought the ultimate question? We all Know the answer by now. laugh.gif

This is a Work in Progress!

#11    The Silver Thong

The Silver Thong

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 30,117 posts
  • Joined:02 Dec 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary Alberta Canada

Posted 18 February 2009 - 08:25 PM

Eieam Wun on Feb 18 2009, 01:04 PM, said:

Propaganda anyone?



man you sure get around, every now and then I search other forums to see if I like it or not, and I know I saw you on at least atlantis rising, and at least another forum (not to mention the darkmission blog) where someone else was saying the same thing I am saying.  Dude why do you care so much about richard hoagland/bara, let me guess cause he's miss leading people and you are here to set the record straight?  Well you've come to the right place, lol.  Who cares about hoagland, he is entertainment, and as long as he and anyone else that people feel are misleading laymen, aren't affecting policy, let it be, I'll say this, the only ones your convincing are those who weren't already convinced and had reservations, those that believe will still do so.  But with that said, please by all means continue on... alien.gif


Not sure I agree with this part (bolded)  when I first joined U.M. I did have a lot of questions about the moon landing, hollow earth crap, aliens cover, 9/11 cover up ect ect.   I actually learned a ton of stuff from people like JimOberg. At first I didn't like him and that was years ago befor he even joined U.M. lol he was trying to ruin my fantasy place where Hogland was king LOL   I wanted things like aliens and cover ups to be all true, however that is not the case, thank goodness !

Gee, I would almost be embarassed to go and look at some of my early posts LOL  We have new members join everyday and alot of this stuff is probably new to them and to have Hogland go unchecked and questioned would be terrible. Just my 2 cents man.....

Edited by The Silver Thong, 18 February 2009 - 08:27 PM.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#12    The Sky Scanner

The Sky Scanner

    Observer

  • Member
  • 5,374 posts
  • Joined:30 Jun 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

  • The loud ones never last!

Posted 18 February 2009 - 08:32 PM

The Silver Thong on Feb 18 2009, 08:25 PM, said:

Not sure I agree with this part (bolded)  when I first joined U.M. I did have a lot of questions about the moon landing, hollow earth crap, aliens cover, 9/11 cover up ect ect.   I actually learned a ton of stuff from people like JimOberg. At first I didn't like him and that was years ago befor he even joined U.M. lol he was trying to ruin my fantasy place where Hogland was king LOL   I wanted things like aliens and cover ups to be all true, however that is not the case, thank goodness !

Gee, I would almost be embarassed to go and look at some of my early posts LOL  We have new members join everyday and alot of this stuff is probably new to them and to have Hogland go unchecked and questioned would be terrible. Just my 2 cents man.....


Ditto. I can remember looking at my dad when I waas about 16 and saying "Yeah, but how do explain the flag waving on the moon when there's no atmosphere". he looked at me with that disappointment only a parent can do, where you know he's thinking "good god, I'm responsible for that prat being born".

We need more Obergs' and less Hoaglands.


"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure Science". ~ Edwin Powell Hubble

#13    supervike

supervike

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 5,283 posts
  • Joined:16 May 2007
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 February 2009 - 08:40 PM

The Silver Thong on Feb 18 2009, 02:25 PM, said:

We have new members join everyday and alot of this stuff is probably new to them and to have Hogland go unchecked and questioned would be terrible. Just my 2 cents man.....



Well said!


#14    bee

bee

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,942 posts
  • Joined:24 Jan 2007
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:England

Posted 18 February 2009 - 09:32 PM

Eieam Wun on Feb 18 2009, 08:04 PM, said:

Propaganda anyone?


No thank you..... no.gif


The Silver Thong on Feb 18 2009, 08:25 PM, said:

Gee, I would almost be embarassed to go and look at some of my early posts LOL  We have new members join everyday and alot of this stuff is probably new to them and to have Hogland go unchecked and questioned would be terrible. Just my 2 cents man.....


And in the spirit of balance here is The Enterprise Mission Main Site link....A Treasure Trove of info.... yes.gif

http://www.enterprisemission.com/

  



#15    The Silver Thong

The Silver Thong

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 30,117 posts
  • Joined:02 Dec 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary Alberta Canada

Posted 18 February 2009 - 09:38 PM

bee on Feb 18 2009, 02:32 PM, said:

No thank you..... no.gif




And in the spirit of balance here is The Enterprise Mission Main Site link....A Treasure Trove of info.... yes.gif

http://www.enterprisemission.com/



Oh Bee darlin, I to loved the enterprise mission stuff. I will admit that years and years ago I use to hang on Hoaglands word. However today I can't really take any of it with out a grain of salt...  I can't nor will I get into anything resembling a debate about Hoaglands site or his "work".  It has been covered top to bottom and well he is grasping at staws to say the least.  My opinion of course wink2.gif


Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users