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The members are sceptics


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#31    buggyelfmaiden

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 05:47 AM

Skeptics?  Where?  Oh... Hm... I'm a bit of one.  I believe in Ghosties, Goblins and all the Sh... Stuff that goes bump in the night.  

With Ghosts though... If I see a photo of one.  I have to make sure that it's not a fake, because it's hard to get good pics of one.  I know a little about photography since my dad's a Professional Photographer and I spent much of my youth playing with cameras, and in the dark room.  I know how to fake a photo (Which the computer Technology has only helped make things easier)  And I know when some 'Unexplained' are just dust bunnies or water drops.

With other beings... I'm a firm beleiver of the creaters of the Fey.  (Fairies for those of you who got lost.)  I personally have never seen one, but who says they can't exist?  

Magic's another thing I beleive in.  This world is full of it.  To me Magic is the very 'soul' of the earth herself.  Magic can be something as simple as a plant sprouting from a sead to a grand waterfall.  It can happen anywhere.  

Gods I'm sounding corny now aint I?  Sorry for the rambling.  Tend to get carried away.  I think that's why I like writing so much....

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#32    The Proposer

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 05:08 PM

youve just reminded me there about an article i read about George Adamski and his videos and photos of Venusian ships,at the time of these the film studios couldnt even produce realistic ships and you could always spot tampering,so Adamski could have made a fortune working for one of the studios,and yet investigators reported obvious fakes of the ships (were these planted to discredit Adamski)

I think the brain and eye are rarely fooled and believe I can spot most computer generated images or tell when somethings not quite right,but some of Adamskis photos are too good to be true,it is hard to get video footage off net for free.


#33    buggyelfmaiden

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 06:42 PM

It's hard to get good video period.  I've seen a lot of vids claiming to be true, but you can see they're edited.  

I just think it's funny that one site I found of peoplle claiming to be ghost hunters would show faked photo's and vids on their site.  I mean these were pretty bad.  Then again... They were a bunch of kids (They said they were only ten and eleven)

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#34    The Raven

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 07:11 PM

I am open minded to most things, but everyone is skeptical about something or you would beleive EVERYTHING.

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#35    The Proposer

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 07:25 PM

i think we also should examine the driving forces behind the need to fake things,and realise that some anomalies would be in no ones interest to fabricate.
such as the ancient fossil records of civilized man existing before and during the dinosaur periods,I cannot see a reason for faking the fossil records as it would only bring ridicule on the scientists involved,although I can see reason why missing link fossils and skeletons would be faked as this would bring prestige among fellow archaelogists and scientists,plus a probable money making bonus.


#36    Seraphina

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 09:18 PM

*Is a very hardened skeptic*

At this point, I would like to point out that I've been driving for 10 hours today, and I'm very tired...I just wanna relax, now that I'm home, and go to bed, after I get my UM fix tongue.gif

So I'll apologise if I'm restating anything...my concentration is a bit off, and my mind is doing funny things...

There's a difference between being a skeptic, and not being open minded; and there's also a vast difference between being open minded, and believing everything is possible.

Being a skeptic simply means that you require some kind of evidence before you will accept something as fact. It doesn't mean you're unwilling to entertain the possibility of something being true, it just means you're not going to believe someone who tries to sell you some story, without a shred of proof to back it up...and why should you?

To me, believing something without evidence is how mistakes are made, facts are misunderstood, and history turns into a lie. Blind faith isn't a very good thing to have if you actually intend to discover the truth...it just means you end up believing whatever you want, regardless of whether it's true or not.

A healthy, skeptical attitude is what actually seperates fact from fiction, because we need to establish what's true and what isn't, rather than just accepting it. Skeptics, I've noticed, are far more willing to accept their mistakes also...the problem with blind faith is, because it doesn't require evidence to have it, evidence that disproves it usually gets ignored too tongue.gif

I'm very proud to be a skeptic thumbsup.gif  

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#37    Byuu94

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 09:40 PM

There are five types
Absolute Believer: believes their own area, often to the point of insanity, sometimes make hoaxes to make others believe.
Believer: believes most of an area, but not all.
Averager: uses common sense, indifferent to all areas, might change due to evidence
Sceptic: disbelieves most areas, does most research of all
Absolute Sceptic: usually attacks a specific area, would disbelieve, even in the face of irrefutabe evidence, might destroy evidence.

I'm about half way between Averager and Sceptic.

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#38    Aslan

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 09:59 PM

As regards Seraphina's post, there is, however, the difference between being a hardened sceptic and disbelieving something on a point of principle, that point of principle being that hardened sceptics should never believe anything.

A healthy sceptical attitude does not separate fact from fiction. The division is always there, if it's discernable to us or not. Scepticism is simply a means by which the whole is interpreted. Plenty of sceptics have turned out to be wrong the same as plenty of believers have turned out to be wrong.

And I disagree with your statement that sceptics are far more willing to accept their mistakes. This depends on your interpretation of sceptic. You are taking it as some amorphous tag that means more or less 'a person who doesn't believe anything', whereas in fact the Catholic church was so sceptical of Gallileo's claims that he wasn't officially pardoned by the Holy See until the late eightees. Most Western countries were so relentlessly sceptical of a female human being's ability to make a value judgement that they weren't allowed to choose their leaders until well into the last century. Bin Laden is so sceptical of Western countries that he's trying to blow them all up, and will do until he's physically prevented.

It all depends how you choose to interpret 'sceptical'. I see value in it, but iI also see that following your scepticism wherever it takes you is no better than believing absolutely everything anyone says.


#39    Seraphina

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 10:41 PM

QUOTE
It all depends how you choose to interpret 'sceptical'. I see value in it, but iI also see that following your scepticism wherever it takes you is no better than believing absolutely everything anyone says.


I would assume, given the first post in this thread outlined the very fact, that we are discussing scepticism as it relates to paranormal activity tongue.gif That is, after all, the main subject of this board, right? thumbsup.gif If you're going to overcomplicate matters to that extent, you might as well claim that nobody, by definition, can be either a skeptic or a beliver, since there are so many areas of conflicting beliefs.  

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#40    Aslan

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 10:57 PM

Thank you. I'm well aware that the specific subject under discussion is scepticism as regards paranormal belief. And as it goes, paranormal belief is not the main subject of this board. The paranormal is the main subject of this board. The difference is subtle but crucial.

Claiming that everybody is either sceptic or believer, or neither, or both, is a moot point. I'm saying that sceptisicm is a way to interpret an answer rather than an answer itself.


#41    Angelfish

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 10:57 PM

It's not good to believe everything that everyone says, but it's also not good to not believe everything that everyone says. no one is either a sceptic or a believer. cus if they were then this forum (and the so many others like it) would just be arguments. Where's the fun in that. Humans need to believe, it's practically the basis of today's society. But if we're not atleast a little bit sceptical of any- and everything, we'd crash and burn. Most of the people here aren't really being sceptical, they're being logical. I've been here only a few months, but I've yet to see a thread where people attack someone else because of something they said the saw or experienced.
I'm not entirely sure that the senses and the mind can be trusted, cus mine betray me all the time. But for now, what people say happened is all we have to go on when dealing with the unexplainable.

I hope that made sense. (honestly, it kinda cunfuserated me wacko.gif )


if you click this, the world will blow up
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Ya know, a few days ago I found a better explaination(sp?) for Angelfish than "Cus it sounds cool".
But than I realized there was no one around to hear it, and I got really depressed.
I hope you all intend to make me feel better.

#42    Gazz

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 12:25 AM

QUOTE (Seraphina @ Apr 12 2004, 10:18 PM)
*Is a very hardened skeptic*

Seraphina, If you are such a hardline
skeptic, and are so ready to quickly
dismiss everything in an instant,
why the hell do you visit these forums
at all?

I think most here have an open mind
about most of the subject matter here.

But if you think that everything unexplained
is fake, why bother discussing it at all?

I find myself somewhere in the middle.

I am skeptical when I see something that
that has no evidence at all to back it
up.

But some like you seem to be on a mission
to disprove everything as being fake.

Not that that is a bad thing. I just
believe that life is much better and
far more interesting to go through with
an open mind.

Until you have been through one of these
unexplained events you cannot know what
is possible since you are a very hardline
skeptic.

And in my book, that must be a very sad
and boring life.

Gazz


#43    fearfulone

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 12:27 AM

Gazz, some are more difficult to impress or prove things to...i'm sure seraphina is very interested in the topics we discuss...she's just not believing them yet...give her a break... thumbsup.gif  

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#44    Seraphina

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 02:00 AM

QUOTE
Seraphina, If you are such a hardline
skeptic, and are so ready to quickly
dismiss everything in an instant,
why the hell do you visit these forums
at all?


You know, it's this exact kind of thing that I'm talking about tongue.gif

Being a skeptic doesn't mean you don't believe in anything, or simply dismiss it out of hand...it means that you need a reason to believe something. It means that you're not going to accept something as a fact unless it offers some kind of proof, or at the very least seems plausible.

As I said, there's a huge difference between being sceptical, and being closed minded tongue.gif I'm a hardcore skeptic because there's a great deal that I don't consider logical, and recquire evidence in order to understand or believe...not because I instantly dismiss things without even glancing at them.

When two arguements oppose each other, I choose the one that offers the most evidence tongue.gif It's not having a closed mind, it's being prudent cool.gif  

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Apparantly, over on Exchristian.Net, they say that I'm "probably the smartest person" on UM....that is so cool...

#45    Anirbas

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 02:14 AM

Well first and foremost you say that like it's a bad thing! Second who cares what you think - this is your one and only post - you don't like it here - you know where the door is original.gif don't let it hit ya where the good Lord split ya!

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