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prove me wrong


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#16    trublvr

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Posted 10 April 2004 - 07:32 AM


  Moonbaby,
  
           Look, I'm gonna let you know up front: I'm a Christian.  You seem pretty jaded with Christianity, and you don't want to be preached at, so I wanted to be upfront.  Clearly, you are dealing with issues of meaning and purpose, and you are entirely correct in your observations concerning our tendency to be compassionate, loving, and sacrificial.  Surely a purely meaningless universe could not and would not produce creatures who ponder meaning!  And sacrificial love like the kind we feel towards each other runs counter to survival of the fittest and self-preservation.  Honestly, though, the meaning you are searching for had better be more than just a matter of proof and rhetoric!  Proof is great, and it has its uses.  Ultimately, though, proof is a non-relational way of knowing.  We have to prove things because we cannot relate to them.  This works well in science, but it sucks for stuff like, "Do I have objective worth as a human being?"  Rhetoric may sound wonderful, but if it doesn't guide us into reality, then it is only wonderful words and theories strung together.  Instead of being captivated by the truth the rhetoric points to, we are simply being captivated by the way it sounds or by how novel it is. For fear of offending you, I'll shut up now.  Peace to you and your household, man.  Take care.  --trublvr

If truth is not a matter of majority vote, neither is it a matter of minority dissent.        

                                                --Douglas Groothius

#17    PrettyAndCorrupt

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Posted 10 April 2004 - 07:40 AM

Prove to me you are right original.gif

:::Siva Sarvagatam Prema, Param Satyam Para Siva:::

Sinking, caught up in a whirling motion. Such a strange sensation. The currents uncertain. Like sails of a mill, I spin. Like wheels that move in a circle while you stand on the bank, immune, all evasive..throw me a life line. Save me.
Intimacy and affection, frozen. In this game of chance I forfit. A full hand of love with no counters. Like a moth with no flame to persuade me. Like blood in the rain running thin. While you stand on the inside looking in. Save me, inside looking in. Complete in the circle. Throw me a life line.
Save me.

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#18    Nordic_Dragon

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Posted 10 April 2004 - 11:27 AM

QUOTE (Laudicus @ Apr 10 2004, 04:52 AM)
I believe that humans have no purpose, and no afterlife..

thats the saddest thing ive ever read...

Turn off the light,
take a deep breath
and relax
start to move slowly,
very slowly  
Let the rhythm be your
guiding light...

Posted Image

#19    The Raven

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Posted 10 April 2004 - 02:21 PM

QUOTE (trublvr @ Apr 10 2004, 04:32 AM)
Moonbaby,
  
           Look, I'm gonna let you know up front: I'm a Christian.  You seem pretty jaded with Christianity, and you don't want to be preached at, so I wanted to be upfront.  Clearly, you are dealing with issues of meaning and purpose, and you are entirely correct in your observations concerning our tendency to be compassionate, loving, and sacrificial.  Surely a purely meaningless universe could not and would not produce creatures who ponder meaning!  And sacrificial love like the kind we feel towards each other runs counter to survival of the fittest and self-preservation.  Honestly, though, the meaning you are searching for had better be more than just a matter of proof and rhetoric!  Proof is great, and it has its uses.  Ultimately, though, proof is a non-relational way of knowing.  We have to prove things because we cannot relate to them.  This works well in science, but it sucks for stuff like, "Do I have objective worth as a human being?"  Rhetoric may sound wonderful, but if it doesn't guide us into reality, then it is only wonderful words and theories strung together.  Instead of being captivated by the truth the rhetoric points to, we are simply being captivated by the way it sounds or by how novel it is. For fear of offending you, I'll shut up now.  Peace to you and your household, man.  Take care.  --trublvr

  grin2.gif  That is the most positive and touching thing I have heard in a month  thumbsup.gif

Just to let you into some super, top-secret, ground breaking information; Science can't solve everything, who knows if it has solved anything. Sure science is great, but you can't expect them to be right some of the time, take the solar system for example. How do they know for SURE there is an Ocean in lower Uranus? They don't, it's just educated speculation and who knows, Uranus could be a huge over-populated and chaotic world like our own, with people like our own, wondering the same things about life and purpose. No matter how hard science tries to scientifically explain Miracles, Religion, Etc, some thing just can't be explained and better left a mystery and something good to beleive in. No, I am not saying any of this is true or if Im a crock, you believe what you feel is right, and that will become right.  original.gif  

Baron Wormser said:

What brought me to the woods was the longing to be with words in an undistracted place. 'Woods' and 'words' were almost identical.

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#20    The Proposer

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Posted 10 April 2004 - 03:19 PM

QUOTE (MoonBaby @ Apr 10 2004, 03:39 AM)
there's so much knowledge out there that i'm starting to think when we die we just rot and nothing else happens after death. prove me right or wrong please, because i just want something to believe in whether it's that i just cease to exist (although that is not what i would prefer) or that we do have souls or spirits or something besides these stupid bodies. please don't preach a lot either cuz i was raised in a christian home so i know all that crap. thanks for any input. huh.gif

prove yourself wrong by a very simple process of visiting your local spiritualist church,its highly likely that if you visit a few times that someone from the other side (who you have known) will want to contact you,these churches usually rely on donations and also have one to one sittings.


#21    MoonBaby

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Posted 10 April 2004 - 06:47 PM

QUOTE
Look, I'm gonna let you know up front: I'm a Christian. You seem pretty jaded with Christianity, and you don't want to be preached at, so I wanted to be upfront


That's totally cool. I like honest people and there's not enough of them these days. I think I might have came across the wrong way though. I have no problem with Chrisianity whatsoever, I just don't buy into it. It works for some people and not others, and I'm just one of those others. I am interested in hearing peoples stories of why they chose a faith, that's very intriguing to me.

QUOTE
Prove to me you are right 


If I could do that I wouldn't be hete tongue.gif

QUOTE

Evoloution has not been proven scientifically. Because theres no proof of speciation.
If certain physists are correct about the speed of light the universe may be only about 8000-10000 years old, and therefore evoloution would be impsossible and there would have to be a creator.


Could you tell me what speciation is please? I've heard the word before but never knew what it meant. Also, what's this stuff about the speed of light? That's pretty interesting.

QUOTE
prove yourself wrong by a very simple process of visiting your local spiritualist church,its highly likely that if you visit a few times that someone from the other side (who you have known) will want to contact you,these churches usually rely on donations and also have one to one sittings.


Can you find those in backwoods Texas towns?bounce.gif And I really don't know anyone from the other side. The only person that I knew that died is my husbands grandma. crying.gif Very sweet lady.

Thank you everyone that's writing crap in here, I feel better already just reading that all of you have something (or nothing) to believe in. Keep it coming.  grin2.gif

bounce.gif  bounce.gif  

"This concept of 'wub' confuses and infuriates us!"
~Futurama <---- the aliens

#22    MoonBaby

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Posted 10 April 2004 - 06:54 PM

By the way, thanks venomshocker for the links. I'll be lookin' over those.

"This concept of 'wub' confuses and infuriates us!"
~Futurama <---- the aliens

#23    Venomshocker

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Posted 10 April 2004 - 07:10 PM

Speciation, is the fundamental basis of the theory of evoloution. Speciation means, one animal morphing into another. Sorta like a cat giving birth to a dog, except in a long drawn out process. Speciation is when an animal(species) changes on a genetic level so much, that it cant breed with its own ancestor from where it came, hence forming a new animal(species), hence the word speciation. This is a core belief of evoloution, and it supports the idea, that we humans could have 'evolved' here by pure chance.Or fluke as u might say.

The thing is speciation, in the animal kingdom has never been proven scientifically, so there is no good proof that we are here by chance. In fact if speciation is not true, we were designed by a creator. Now that creator could be a God, or Gods, or even aliens. Theoretically. But nontheless we as humans were created, and therefore must have purpose.

The thing about the speed of light changing is a lil more complicated, read about it here.
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=14210

I would also like to add, that I do believe in a God, and its because of what I have observed about the world from a scientific perspective. I believe there is plenty of evidence for design. But I also understand where you have a problem with christianity as a whole. Belief in a God, I believe is a completely personal experience, and shouldnt be related too a single denomonation of some kind. I hate being preached at. Its good to find a church where the pastor just presents ideas to think about instead of telling you what you should or shouldnt do. Read as much as you can, most christians view the bible as an absolutely perfect book with no mistakes. I disagree, it was written by imperfect people. Although it can be a pretty good guide, I would encourage you too find out more about how the bible was put together, and what was left in and what was left out and why.And always question where things came from. Knowledge is the key to wisdom.I hope this helps.

QUOTE
Ignorance is the mother of all evil. -Gospel of Thomas


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"Ultimately there is no such thing as meaning, only experience and creativity."  ~ Pleiadians

#24    MoonBaby

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Posted 10 April 2004 - 07:19 PM

I went to that nujournal link and it was very...enlightening. Thank you very much for that. I especially liked the expirement done by the college students. I can see how that helped you, or whatever because it does prove how ignorant we humans are. We think that because something might be true, it probably is when we in reality have no idea. Tommy Lee Jones said it best in Men in Black. Something along the lines of "A thousand years ago
everybody knew as a fact, that the earth
was the center of the universe. Five
hundred years ago, they knew it was flat.
Fifteen minutes ago, you knew we humans
were alone on it. Imagine what you'll know
tomorrow."
No, but really, that journal article seriosly spoke to me. I'm not trying to sound corny (I know I do I do) but it did.

Keep it comin'. bounce.gif  

"This concept of 'wub' confuses and infuriates us!"
~Futurama <---- the aliens

#25    Venomshocker

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Posted 10 April 2004 - 07:33 PM

Yea, that nujournal link is quite something, especially the part about;Can you Imagine designing the universe? It gave me a completely different perspective on life.

Ive always viewed science as some eternal truth that is just so sound, that it can figure everything out. But the real truth is quite the opposite. Science is one of the fastest changing things in the universe. There are paradigm shifts in science almost every century. Who knows what well figure out next is a good question. But hell, I wanna be one of the first to know. Figuring out stuff is fun!!! grin2.gif Not learning something new every day is boring. I cant even comprehend it blink.gif I wish you good luck figuring things out. You live and learn, and learn some more. original.gif

Edited by Venomshocker, 10 April 2004 - 07:33 PM.

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#26    MoonBaby

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Posted 10 April 2004 - 08:54 PM

OK, now somebody has to tell me what paradigm shifts are. I'm so excited. I'm learning big words.

QUOTE
Venomshocker

Who knows what well figure out next is a good question


Yep, and you know, no matter how far advanced we get, there never is hard proof that we were not created by something. Sometimes it leans further one way or another but still, no hard proof.

Does anyone know anything about everyone weighs like, 21 grams less when they die?

"This concept of 'wub' confuses and infuriates us!"
~Futurama <---- the aliens

#27    trublvr

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Posted 10 April 2004 - 10:38 PM


  Moonbaby,

             Glad that you are keeping up your search for truth/meaning/purpose.  Lots of folks just give up and play dead.  A word on searches, though: Be an open skeptic!  What I mean is be open to truth popping up on terms that are not your own; however don't let your life become a lab and your self a lab rat where you experiment with anything and everything.  I'm not saying that you are doing this.  Just a heads up to save you a lot of pain and heartache.  A suggestion:  As you search for answers look for things that go beyond popularity, and try to home in on what best reflects reality; what rightfully comments on reality; and what provides the best hope for you and the world. What's popular right now in American spiritual/philosophical thought involves indiscriminate sensual indulgence and selfishness disguised as "liberation" and "self-help".  Sadly, even the others-oriented, selfless way of Christ is perverted in this way by some (you seem to know this first-hand).  Know that as you search and seek maybe you are being sought after.  And be aware that not everything that is "spiritual" is good or loving or has your best interest in view.  

I fully appreciate your honesty.  You've spilled your story a lot; is there anything personal you'd like to know from we who have been writing?  Maybe you've got some wisdom for us.  ---trublvr

If truth is not a matter of majority vote, neither is it a matter of minority dissent.        

                                                --Douglas Groothius

#28    Venomshocker

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Posted 11 April 2004 - 12:48 AM

QUOTE
Paradigm:A set of assumptions, concepts, values, and practices that constitutes a way of viewing reality for the community that shares them, especially in an intellectual discipline.


A paradigm shift is usually when the current model of science changes to another. Similar to when people thought the world was flat. and then they figured out its actually round.

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#29    PsychicPenguin

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Posted 11 April 2004 - 01:16 AM

QUOTE (MoonBaby @ Apr 10 2004, 06:05 AM)
Laudicus, does believing that bother you? I mean, cuz if there's no point to this, then why stay? If there's not a point, you don't do it right?

hummm.. i think you're correct...

*jump out of the window*


#30    Nethius

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Posted 11 April 2004 - 02:02 AM

QUOTE (MoonBaby @ Apr 10 2004, 06:05 AM)
QUOTE
I believe that humans have no purpose, and no afterlife.

Laudicus, does believing that bother you? I mean, cuz if there's no point to this, then why stay? If there's not a point, you don't do it right? What's the point of playing a board game? To prove some kind of supremacy. What's the point of having a job? To make money. What's the point of buying a new surround sound system? To filfill a desire. There is a point to everthing we do or else we don't do it. So if we have no purpose, we have no point, therefore why are you still here? Think about this. Why are you on your computer in a discussion forum on souls? What's the point?

what does the belief of a god have to do why you do things?  is everything you do to please a god?  live for yourself, and others you care about, thats why you should do the things you do, not because you have to prove yourself to some god







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