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Vampires - true historical accounts?


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#1    archangel_josh

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 01:30 AM


Hello all,

Obviously I do not believe that vampires are real, however the myth must have stemmed from some ancient event/s that caused people to believe in undead people who suck blood.

Does anyone know where this origin came from?

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#2    Stormcrow

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 01:39 AM

Could you narrow it down please? Origin of "vampire" or creatures that suck blood in various cultures?


#3    catutie

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 01:49 AM

hmmm. could be the story of the Wendigo ALLLLL over again. native amercans though if you were a canible you turned into a Wendigo and you ate people/drank blood/ect. thumbsup.gif


#4    Pax Unum

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 02:27 AM

Vampire


#5    OldTimeRadio

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:57 PM

Something seems to have transpired in Central and Eastern Europe between circa 1690 and 1750 which was unusual enough that the languages of the area had to coin a new word - in English, "Undead" - to categorize it.

     Moreover, as soon as things cooled down in Europe they began again....in colonial North America.

Edited by OldTimeRadio, 27 February 2009 - 09:00 PM.


#6    TheLoneWolf

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 09:27 PM

There is a supposedly true story about a first ever "vampire" here in Croatia. I can't remember the details, but it was something about a guy who dies, and then wreaks havoc around an area in Istria, where he lived and died. This isn't a classic Hollywood vampire/Dracula story (hence the "" happy.gif ), but it happened before Stoker's Dracula was written and was possibly the inspiration for his book.

As I said, this is a really rough version of the story, as I don't remember it well, but you could look into it, if you're interested. It's an interesting story, if nothing more...  wink2.gif

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#7    TheLoneWolf

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 09:35 PM

Heh, now I got really interested...  laugh.gif  Here are some links.

http://www.istrianet.org/istria/legends/va...tria-grando.htm

http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit05012006/worldwatch1.asp

There...  tongue.gif

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#8    psyche101

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 10:18 PM

Hello Josh.

You may find this link interesting - Vampire Killers and the First Vampire

A historical record of bloodlust killings that seem to be inspired by, or have inspired stories such as Erzebet Bathory and The Monster of Dusseldorf. Be warned it is graphic reading.

Edited by psyche101, 27 February 2009 - 10:47 PM.

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#9    I_Am_Avatar_Korra

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 04:01 AM

TheLoneWolf on Feb 27 2009, 04:27 PM, said:

There is a supposedly true story about a first ever "vampire" here in Croatia. I can't remember the details, but it was something about a guy who dies, and then wreaks havoc around an area in Istria, where he lived and died. This isn't a classic Hollywood vampire/Dracula story (hence the "" happy.gif ), but it happened before Stoker's Dracula was written and was possibly the inspiration for his book.

As I said, this is a really rough version of the story, as I don't remember it well, but you could look into it, if you're interested. It's an interesting story, if nothing more...  wink2.gif

Take care!


Freaky.

But Vlad the Impaler was Stroker's impression. Hence the name "Dracula." Which was Vlad's real last name.

It's all based on Vlad the Impaler. Because of how he killed the people of his country or neighboring/enemies. (Can't remember which.)

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#10    Drago

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 04:33 AM

archangel_josh on Feb 26 2009, 07:30 PM, said:

Hello all,

Obviously I do not believe that vampires are real, however the myth must have stemmed from some ancient event/s that caused people to believe in undead people who suck blood.

Does anyone know where this origin came from?


There is no single source for worldwide lore of corpses/spirits that fed on the flesh/blood of the living.  Almost every culture, no matter its relative age, has at least one type of creature which fits the very broad definition of a vampire as an animated corpse or spirit that feeds on the living in some way.  As such it is impossible to trace all these creatures back to a single point or event.  Given the worldwide presence of these creatures or creatures similar in the lore of most cultures, even the incredibly old and the comparatively new, it's likely that simple superstition and the dispersal of the story through immigration and assimilation to other areas is the 'event' you're looking for.

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#11    TheLoneWolf

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 11:06 AM

MoonPrincess on Feb 28 2009, 05:01 AM, said:

Freaky.

But Vlad the Impaler was Stroker's impression. Hence the name "Dracula." Which was Vlad's real last name.

It's all based on Vlad the Impaler. Because of how he killed the people of his country or neighboring/enemies. (Can't remember which.)



I know who was his impression, but the story of Vlad was maybe a bit spooky or bloody (by our standards), but what he did to his enemies was not so unusual for the time he lived in. Let alone mysterious, mystical or "paranormal"...

I'm not trying to reinvent or re-imagine this great book or its setting, it's obvious Stoker had Vlad III and Romania in his mind, but maybe, just maybe, the vampire part of it was based on the event (or story) I mentioned... Or any other such event, if there were any...

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#12    Drago

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 03:53 PM

?

What Vlad did to his enemies was extremely unusual for the time and place he lived.  He publicly tortured people so that his enemies would learn to fear him.  It gained him a reputation as being heartless, merciless, bloodthirsty and terrible.  Not many people wanted to be on his bad side after a round of public impaling, which is exactly why he did it.  Vlad did some horrible, horrible things, things no one had ever seen before outside the Inquisitions, and his brutality became legendary.
If everyone was doing it to the degree he was, he wouldn't have been legendary for it, he would have just been another one of the goon squad.

As I said, there are far too many variations on vampire-like creatures to tie the stories back to any one single event or source.  The lore seems to have developed concurrently through cultures across the world.  The vampire as people recognize it today, the pop-culture vampire, can be traced back to a story called 'Varney the Vampyre,' one of the predecessors of the Dracula story.  Most of Dracula's classifying 'vampiric' traits can be seen in Varney, traits that had never before been associated with the vampire legend.

Also, the use of the word 'undead' is questionable in the past.  Most dictionary's place its years of origin as around 1895-1900...  When it was first used in Dracula.

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#13    TheLoneWolf

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 06:19 PM

Drago on Feb 28 2009, 04:53 PM, said:

What Vlad did to his enemies was extremely unusual for the time and place he lived.  He publicly tortured people so that his enemies would learn to fear him.  It gained him a reputation as being heartless, merciless, bloodthirsty and terrible.  Not many people wanted to be on his bad side after a round of public impaling, which is exactly why he did it.  Vlad did some horrible, horrible things, things no one had ever seen before outside the Inquisitions, and his brutality became legendary.
If everyone was doing it to the degree he was, he wouldn't have been legendary for it, he would have just been another one of the goon squad.

Think about what you wrote here. Sure, the things he did were ruthless beyond reason, but is it really so unusual to want your enemies to fear you? No, it was only logical... It was a time when every country had enemies (whole Europe was under Ottoman threat) and brutality wasn't unknown or unheard of, it was just a mean for getting what you need, and being feared of was a good thing. Maybe he was a bit more brutal than the lot, but I wouldn't say brutality made him legendary, stories did. Same as any other great leader...



Drago on Feb 28 2009, 04:53 PM, said:

As I said, there are far too many variations on vampire-like creatures to tie the stories back to any one single event or source.  The lore seems to have developed concurrently through cultures across the world.  The vampire as people recognize it today, the pop-culture vampire, can be traced back to a story called 'Varney the Vampyre,' one of the predecessors of the Dracula story.  Most of Dracula's classifying 'vampiric' traits can be seen in Varney, traits that had never before been associated with the vampire legend.

Also, the use of the word 'undead' is questionable in the past.  Most dictionary's place its years of origin as around 1895-1900...  When it was first used in Dracula.

I agree, such a widespread legend is impossible to trace and tie to any one point or event in history, or any single story. It would be like trying to pinpoint the origin of dragon legends, which is pointless when so many cultural and historical variations exist.

The thing we can do, though, is share stories and debate, and that is what we'll do...  original.gif

Edited by TheLoneWolf, 28 February 2009 - 06:27 PM.

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#14    Crow Woman

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 10:49 PM

I have heard many origin stories before. But I think that it may have stemmed when people observed that some people "died" and then the corpse came back to life. (Coma). Blood-sucking can come from many different stories....

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#15    artful

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 10:57 PM

Well it seem like vampires are coming out of the woodwork lately. I was listening to blog talk radio where one of the host has had two alleged vampires on her show.  One claims to be over 500 years old, and the other much older. While I believe that there have been people who drank blood, and may still be, I'm skeptical when it comes to the idea of immortals and such walking around, draining the blood of humans. I like the idea of sharing stories about this, I checked out some of the links that were posted, and there is quite a bit of info about the myths and legends  about vampires  spanning many cultures.   cool.gif





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