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Alien abduction


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#1    fireinthesky

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 07:53 PM

ALIEN ABDUCTION - THE LOOSE ENDS OF THE SKEPTICS EXPLANATIONS


1. Sleep paralysis by definition is the temporary partial or total paralysis of skeletal muscles and absence of reflexes that occurs upon awakening from sleep (Hypnopompic State) or less often while falling asleep (Hypnagogic State). The transition, falling into asleep and awaking from sleep may be accompanied by a diverse series of sensory experiences. These can occur in any form, individually or combined, and range from mild, vague and barely perceptible to intensely vivid hallucinations.

If Alien Abduction is simply misidentified sleep paralysis, then how does that account for the following factors?

• Individuals, in a full state of sober, consciousness, who were taken in broad daylight, outside of their home or bedroom environment, in the middle of an activity. Activities include driving cars, walking, fishing, hunting, operating farming equipment, laundry.

• Individuals, in a full state of sober consciousness, who were taken while driving at night who report significant periods of missing time (comparatively like large splices taken out of a film which when put back together are disjointed & make no sense due to the missing pieces taken out of it).

• Individuals, in a full state of sober consciousness, who have their companions, or independent third parties with no connection to the Individual, witness their abduction &, in some cases, their companions, or independent third parties with no connection to the Individual, involved, witnessing nearby or outright abducted along with them.
The individual, their companions & in some cases independent third parties with no connection to the individual later can provide intricate, corroborative details when separately questioned & interrogated on the details of the incident by qualified law enforcement &/or qualified private investigators.

2. A microsleep by definition is a period of sleep which may occur for a less than a second or up to minute as a result of sleep deprivation, mental fatigue, sleep apnea,  narcolepsy  or excessive daytime sleepiness.  

If the missing time experienced by individuals driving at night in a state of sober consciousness is the result of a microsleep then how does that account for missing time periods in excess of a few minutes, which is, in extreme cases, the maximum period of time for which a microsleep can last?

Missing time in abduction cases can vary from as little as thirty minutes up to five days. If for example someone was micro sleeping in their car for between thirty minutes (which is impossible given that a microsleep is between a second & minute in duration) & five days then the following would be inevitable, they would crash.

People driving who experience microsleeps are at greater risk of car accidents even though the deflection from their consciousness is only between a second & a minute. If a person was driving behind the wheel & lost for example two hours of their consciousness, the likelihood of them crashing would be a certainty given that even a minute of consciousness lost due to microsleeps can greatly increase the likelihood of car accidents. The question is then:

Why do people who report hours of missing time while driving in a sober, conscious state not crash their vehicles?

In cases of missing time with people driving cars, they can for example be driving one moment as normal, two hours of missing time later, they are still driving but they may find anomalies such as the following:

• They are wearing the wrong clothes.
• Their clothes are inside out.
• They are driving different cars.
• Five hundred miles remaining to destination one moment, Three hundred miles remaining immediately next with no recognition of where the last Two hundred miles went.

3. If it’s cataplexy then why do the people display no symptoms of the illness when strong emotions are invoked?

In a severe case of cataplexy when strong emotions are invoked these symptoms would include losing voluntary control of one's muscles dropping to the ground immobile for a few minutes, during which hallucination.

If it was a minor case of cataplexy then when strong emotions are invoked the muscles around the face would slacken, speech may become slurred.  Cataplexy is detectable with an EEG or in extremely subtle cases an A-EEG (ambulatory EEG), so if the symptoms are unrecognisably subtle, such as the patient reporting concerns of fainting, immobility, hallucinations, then this condition can be detected & diagnosed with EEG technology. The problem the person is reporting would be given a name & a down to earth explanation. The problem is that this illness is one of the many in the barrage of testing that the experiencers are checked for. Given the nature of the illness even without an EEG there are strong chances that symptoms of it would become evident by stimulating strong emotions in the patient (e.g. laughter, anger, pleasure).


4. If it's Hypnagogic or Hypnopompic hallucinations how does that explain:

• The incident occurring in a state which is neither Hypnagogic nor Hypnopompic.
E.g. Driving to work, Operating heavy machinery on a farm, hanging out the washing, Cooking in the kitchen & outdoors, Hunting, Fishing, Camping & Collecting Wood.

• Witnesses, Independent third parties witnessing the abduction, situated nearby the abduction, abducted along with the person.

• Physical Traces left in the location of the reported abduction. Baked, Triangular & Circular patches of soil, Soil that is anomalously fluorescent, nothing ever growing in those patches of soil again after the event despite grass or trees growing in those patches before. Burnt soil when tested found to have been caused by nuclear levels of heat.

• Physical Traces left on the victim of the abduction, surgical scarring, scoop marks with cauterised skin, triangular burns & circular burns. Metallic implants cocooned in dermal tissue located in the frontal lobe cavity of the brain & conscious, unaided recollections of the implants being forced up the nose on the trajectory towards the brain. Combined with nasal pain, in some cases broken noses, & bleeding after the incident.

• If they are Hypnagogic or Hypnopompic hallucinations then why aren't they unique manifestations to the individual experiencing them, hallucinations are 100% personal. The intricacy & corroborative details of the abduction experience found in genuine abductee cases are testament to real nature. If they were manifestations they would share intricate the features & details & they certainly wouldn't occur in the same order.


Abductee's are from different parts all over the world with different socio-economic standards.   Some are from isolated & technologically primitive locations that contain no outside media or popular culture influence at all (e.g. television, radio), an example of this would be the Amazon jungle in South America. Locations without media or popular culture influence reporting identical instances of alien abduction cast significant doubt on the skeptic theory that media & popular culture influence is what contributes to people "imagining" these encounters based on absorbed subliminal suggestion.

An example of one sufferer's Hypnagogic hallucinations were noted by them as follows:
June 2002- I found myself at the bottom of my bed looking for a wicker bird cage.  
July 2003- I awoke and found myself waving to imaginary people outside of the window.  The window with the waving people was several meters behind my bedroom window though the two images seemed to superimpose.  
August 2003- I dreamt I had dropped my mobile phone at the edge of a steep muddy bank. I awoke to find myself scrabbling at the bottom of my bed in an attempt to stop the phone from slipping down the bank.  
September 2003- I awoke and got out of bed as I thought the table on fire and it needed to be put out.  
September 2003- I dreamt I was being bitten on the chest by horseflies. I awoke several times only to fall back into the same dream. Finally, half asleep I woke up; found a t-shirt in my bedroom to cover my chest to protect me.  It worked well and I slept right through
Jan 2004- I dreamt I was videoing a flock of pigeons taking off. One shat on my camera as it took off. Whilst still asleep I reached over to the bed side table and got some tissue to clean the camera. Holding the camera in my dream with my right hand I cleaned it with the real tissue. I woke up and the image of the camera in my hand faded, leaving my empty right hand shaped in the holding position. My left hand was still wiping the invisible camera with the real tissue.
5. If it's psychiatrists & hypnotherapists leading the patient with suggestion how does that explain the patients who come forward with conscious, unaided recollections of alien abduction before the hypnotherapists & psychiatrists even have the opportunity to lead or suggest to the patient?
If hypnosis isn't even used how can a person be lead by someone to create an event that didn't occur?

If it's leading then why do you have psychiatrists, journalists & skeptics in general allowed to attend, witness & evaluate a hypnotic regression session & for themselves & to find no evidence of leading or suggestion?  Budd Hopkins has done this many times with the abductee's permission.

Budd Hopkins writes, "... I have often frequently invited interested therapists, journalists and academics to observe hypnosis sessions. Theoretical psychologist Nicholas Humphrey, who has held teaching positions at both Oxford and Cambridge Universities, and psychiatrist Donald. F. Klein, director of research at the New York State Psychiatric Institute and professor of psychiatry at the College of Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia University, are but two of those who have observed my work firsthand. None of these visitors ... have reported anything that suggested I was attempting to lead the subjects." (Hopkins, 238-239)


6. If it's lying then how do you explain independent witness corroboration to the event with no prior knowledge or relation to the person who was abducted or sighted the UFO? If it's lying then how do you explain the multiple witnesses & multiple participants to the abduction events (e.g. spouses, children, family friends)? People who were taken at the same time in the same place & with identical & corroborative recollections that hold up under quality, impartial, investigative scrutiny.  If it's lying then how does one explain the lack of motive an individual has in reporting such an event & have nothing to gain from the lie.

For the sake of argument imagine the task of enticing your friends, family or recently introduced acquaintances into joining you in making up & perpetrating a big hoax of a story that involved aliens & ufo's, convincing them to present themselves & the story to the public in hopes of reaping large financial gains from it. Apart from various groups, cults & subculture of frauds, liars & glory hounds present in the UFO field who will do anything for fame & cash, the proposition more often than not might get some laughs but would rarely be viewed as a smart idea for quick, big cash.

If in the instance that your family, friends or acquaintances agreed to the story & to take it public in hopes of money, they would have to be promised nay guaranteed a pretty big payoff for their efforts considering the amount of ridicule & skepticism they would be imminently facing. That big payoff is not common or by any means a sure thing in ufology. What one can look forward to when revealing their experiences publicly is jokes, skepticism, loss of friends, loss of credibility, even (ironically) loss of financial viability. At best if they truly wanted to attempt to make money from it there options are few:

• An offer for an article in a D-grade tabloid gossip magazine
• Finance their own website in hopes of selling their merchandise
• A 2 minute TV spot on a tabloid news program, complete with "X-files" theme music.

They may make some money, but it’s hardly a lucrative, guaranteed, financial slam dunk making up a UFO story & going public for riches & fame.

7. If it's Temporal Lobe Epilepsy then why do the abductees' show no symptoms or unusual activity in the lobes of the brain when they are tested for the illness with MRI's, Photostatic stimulation, EEG's & A-EEG's?

REFERENCES

• http://gtwebpublisher.co.uk/clients/wp/luk...ep_research.pdf

• Budd Hopkins; "Hypnosis and the Investigation of UFO Abduction Accounts"; pages 215-240 in UFOs and Abductions: Challenging the Borders of Knowledge, David M. Jacobs, editor; University Press of Kansas, 2000;


Edited by fireinthesky, 27 February 2009 - 07:56 PM.


#2    TaintedDoughnuts

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:13 PM

Lost time can be explained in most cases by highway hypnosis. Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_hypnosis:

Quote

Highway hypnosis is a mental state in which the person can drive a truck or automobile great distances, responding to external events in the expected manner with no recollection of having consciously done so. In this state the driver's conscious mind is apparently fully focused elsewhere, with seemingly direct processing of the masses of information needed to drive safely.


In short, a human can do simple, monotonous tasks, such as driving, just fine, and completely forget about the whole experience later.  As for the other anomalies, such as wearing the wrong clothes and such, perhaps they were in a rush to get to where they were going, and didn't remember 100% what they were wearing?  tongue.gif

I do agree with you, in that it's probably not a disease(s) causing people to believe they're abducted.  I believe it's sleep paralysis, in cases of home abductions; highway hypnosis, in cases of people "driving cars, walking, fishing, hunting, operating farming equipment, laundry" due to the monotony of the tasks you mentioned; and for witnesses to the abduction, either lying or a small-scale mass hysteria.

Edited by TaintedDoughnuts, 27 February 2009 - 08:18 PM.


#3    fireinthesky

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:21 PM

TaintedDoughnuts on Feb 27 2009, 09:13 PM, said:

Lost time can be explained in most cases by highway hypnosis. Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_hypnosis:

In short, a human can do simple, monotonous tasks, such as driving, just fine, and completely forget about the whole experience later.  As for the other anomalies, such as wearing the wrong clothes and such, perhaps they were in a rush to get to where they were going, and didn't remember 100% what they were wearing?  tongue.gif


If it's Highway hypnosis, how does account for:

* Leaving wearing your own clothes & then later after the missing time wearing clothes that don't belong to you, clothes inside out.
* Driving down the road in your car then all of a sudden you are driving in a different car that isn't your own.
* Broken noses, blood
* Physical aftereffects of an abduction, burns, surgical incisions, broken nose & profuse nasal bleeding.


#4    TaintedDoughnuts

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:26 PM

fireinthesky on Feb 27 2009, 12:21 PM, said:

If it's Highway hypnosis, how does account for:

* Leaving wearing your own clothes & then later after the missing time wearing clothes that don't belong to you, clothes inside out.
* Driving down the road in your car then all of a sudden you are driving in a different car that isn't your own.
* Broken noses, blood
* Physical aftereffects of an abduction, burns, surgical incisions, broken nose & profuse nasal bleeding.

Lying, or adding stuff into the story just to "spice" it up original.gif  If you can provide proof of this, in the form of pictures or videos (anything other than an anecdote), I'd be happy to try and explain it, but until then, that's really all I can give you insofar as an explanation.

Edited by TaintedDoughnuts, 27 February 2009 - 08:29 PM.


#5    fireinthesky

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:29 PM

TaintedDoughnuts on Feb 27 2009, 09:26 PM, said:

Lying, or adding stuff into the story just to "spice" it up original.gif


& your reason for purporting I'm lying? You can check out anything I'm reporting with Derrel Sims, Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs, Ron Regehr. You can search the internet & find out about what I'm talking about.

A stronger response than I'm lying would be appreciate, how about a reason why I'm lying first off?


#6    TaintedDoughnuts

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:30 PM

fireinthesky on Feb 27 2009, 12:29 PM, said:

& your reason for purporting I'm lying? You can check out anything I'm reporting with Derrel Sims, Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs, Ron Regehr. You can search the internet & find out about what I'm talking about.

A stronger response than I'm lying would be appreciate, how about a reason why I'm lying first off?

I never said you were lying, sorry if you got that implication.  I meant the people you're purporting that have been abducted are lying.


#7    fireinthesky

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:33 PM

TaintedDoughnuts on Feb 27 2009, 09:30 PM, said:

I never said you were lying, sorry if you got that implication.  I meant the people you're purporting that have been abducted are lying.


I tell you, I & they, wish it was all lies. That it was a mental illness or a tumour, or anything but what it actually is. It's horrifying.

Edited by fireinthesky, 27 February 2009 - 08:34 PM.


#8    Hazzard

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:37 PM

Before we can say for sure that the answer to the alien abduction claims are out of this world, we have to make sure that its not in it...


THIS IS ALL HAPPENING INSIDE PEOPLES HEADS....NOT ON THE OUTSIDE.

Edited by hazzard, 27 February 2009 - 08:38 PM.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#9    fireinthesky

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:38 PM

fireinthesky on Feb 27 2009, 09:33 PM, said:

I tell you, I & they, wish it was all lies. That it was a mental illness or a tumour, or anything but what it actually is. It's horrifying.


A start in evidence...

Check out the following names their websites their work. The evidence is in their work, warning it involves a *$#@load of reading & time:

• Stanton T Friedman
• Derrel Sims
• Dr Bruce Maccabee
• Richard M Dolan
• Timothy Goode
• Budd Hopkins
• John Mack M.D
• Dr J Allen Hynek
• Nancy Talbott
• Wendy Connors
• Richard Hall
• Ted Phillips
• Dr Richard F Haines
• Dr Jacques Vallee
• Dr Michio Kaku
•               Raymond D Fowler



#10    fireinthesky

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:40 PM

hazzard on Feb 27 2009, 09:37 PM, said:

Before we can say for sure that the answer to the alien abduction claims are out of this world, we have to make sure that its not in it...


THIS IS ALL HAPPENING INSIDE PEOPLES HEADS....NOT ON THE OUTSIDE.


If it's in their heads, then it wouldn't leave physical evidence or witnesses or co-participants. Also if it's in their heads, were they to seek medical help, they would be diagnosed.

Edited by fireinthesky, 27 February 2009 - 08:42 PM.


#11    TaintedDoughnuts

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:43 PM

fireinthesky on Feb 27 2009, 12:40 PM, said:

If it's in their heads, then it wouldn't leave physical evidence. Also if it's in their heads, were they to seek medical help, they would be diagnosed.

That's kind of the point of seeking medical help... To find out what's wrong with you grin2.gif

I checked out most of these people you listed, and the majority are just businessmen, out to get a quick dollar.  Of course they have lots of "research" on abductions; it brings in the money, regardless of how authentic or fake the claims may be!  Show me a "researcher" who's had alien abduction research published in a scientific journal, and I'll take these claims seriously.

Edited by TaintedDoughnuts, 27 February 2009 - 08:45 PM.


#12    fireinthesky

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:45 PM

TaintedDoughnuts on Feb 27 2009, 09:43 PM, said:

That's kind of the point of seeking medical help... To find out what's wrong with you grin2.gif

I checked out most of these people you listed, and the majority are just businessmen, out to get a quick dollar.  Of course they have lots of "research" on abductions  it brings in the money, regardless of how authentic or fake the claims may be!


Well I'll tell you, I admire your intelligence & ability to check out all those names thoroughly. I couldn't do that in less than hour.


#13    xris

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:53 PM

Those eminent psychiatrists who have investigated the phenomena have never been able to explain what has happened with any certainty. Me as a sceptic find it a strange subject when you examine how the psychiatrists try to explain the mystery. Their only explanation is that they are having the classic lucid paralysis dream . I have had both and i know the subject and it never lasts more than a few seconds with the realisation once its over that it was no more than a dream. The psychiatrist's admit that there is no sign of mental illness and 90% of those who report it are normal sane humans. It cant be so easily dismissed.


#14    TaintedDoughnuts

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:54 PM

fireinthesky on Feb 27 2009, 12:45 PM, said:

Well I'll tell you, I admire your intelligence & ability to check out all those names thoroughly. I couldn't do that in less than hour.


I need to stop using the edit button...  Sorry tongue.gif

Show me a "researcher" who's had alien abduction research published in a scientific journal that uses double-blind review standards, and I'll take these claims seriously.  Until then, most of these "researchers" seem to be trying to make a quick buck on books and such.


#15    fireinthesky

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:57 PM

TaintedDoughnuts on Feb 27 2009, 09:54 PM, said:

I need to stop using the edit button...  Sorry tongue.gif

Show me a "researcher" who's had alien abduction research published in a scientific journal that uses double-blind review standards, and I'll take these claims seriously.  Until then, most of these "researchers" seem to be trying to make a quick buck on books and such.


Talk to the people I listed, the ones that aren't dead that is (J Allen Hynek, John Mack MD). Also check out the Alien Discussions: Proceedings of the Abduction Study Conference Held at M.I.T. Cambridge, Ma. by Abduction Study Conference, David Pritchard, and Andrea Pritchard. That was an MIT study. & very impartial considering.





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