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The Mysterious Egyptian Tri-Lobed Disc


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#46    legionromanes

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 07:29 AM

cladking on Mar 7 2009, 06:28 AM, said:

I know you can do better than this.  Rather than proving our navy
sits on the ocean floor, why not at least point out what makes some
believe it's an ornamental bowl, or much better, why it can't be an
oil lamp.

no apparently all I need to do is point out to everyone that you are claiming stone floats and let them draw their own conclusions
and I have already posted a link which discusses the object from a non fringe perspective, sorry you didn't read it, obviously ignoring the evidence again eh
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Edited by legionromanes, 07 March 2009 - 07:29 AM.


#47    Dark_Lord

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 03:38 PM

I photographed a very similar object at the New York MET last Autumn.

linked-image

It is supposed to date to the pre-dynastic or early dynastic period. The material is meta siltstone, as the tri-lobed disks at the Egyptian Museum in Cairo. The Ankh shape suggests that the object had a clearly symbolic meaning (probably a libation bowl), yet it is difficult to figure how any liquid would fit into the object.

What really leaves me wondering, however, is why these unusually advanced objects (as most hard stone vessels) are only found in pre-dynastic and early dynastic Egypt, whereas they are almost non existant in later periods (When we shall assume craftmanship would have significantly improved in comparison to the earlier dynasties).

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#48    legionromanes

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 03:48 PM

Dark_Lord on Mar 7 2009, 03:38 PM, said:

What really leaves me wondering, however, is why these unusually advanced objects (as most hard stone vessels) are only found in pre-dynastic and early dynastic Egypt, whereas they are almost non existant in later periods (When we shall assume craftmanship would have significantly improved in comparison to the earlier dynasties).

the Bronze age happened in the interval
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#49    cladking

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 04:35 PM

Dark_Lord on Mar 7 2009, 09:38 AM, said:

I photographed a very similar object at the New York MET last Autumn.


That's both interesting and surprising.  

Thanks.


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#50    Oniomancer

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 08:30 PM

legionromanes on Mar 7 2009, 02:29 AM, said:

no apparently all I need to do is point out to everyone that you are claiming stone floats and let them draw their own conclusions

Common sense isn't always your friend.

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It's not the weight alone, it's the weight distribution in relation to the surface area. I've floated fairly thick ceramic bowls lots of times doing dishes. This thing is pushing the ragged edge of floatablity with those flanges though. Whether it would float laden down further with oil is Isn't a bet I'd want to take.

Quote

and I have already posted a link which discusses the object from a non fringe perspective, sorry you didn't read it, obviously ignoring the evidence again eh
w00t.gif

My money's certainly on the mundane expalnation. You just have to occasionally watch that your own ducks are in row.   wink2.gif

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#51    questionmark

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 12:04 AM

kmt_sesh on Mar 7 2009, 08:56 AM, said:

Ahhh, I think I know what this object was for. It was an ancient Egyptian fondue pot. tongue.gif


Pssst...the Swiss secret service will be after you if you keep on telling everybody that the Egyptians really invented fondue...

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#52    kmt_sesh

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 12:22 AM

Dark_Lord on Mar 7 2009, 09:38 AM, said:

I photographed a very similar object at the New York MET last Autumn.

linked-image

It is supposed to date to the pre-dynastic or early dynastic period. The material is meta siltstone, as the tri-lobed disks at the Egyptian Museum in Cairo. The Ankh shape suggests that the object had a clearly symbolic meaning (probably a libation bowl), yet it is difficult to figure how any liquid would fit into the object.

What really leaves me wondering, however, is why these unusually advanced objects (as most hard stone vessels) are only found in pre-dynastic and early dynastic Egypt, whereas they are almost non existant in later periods (When we shall assume craftmanship would have significantly improved in comparison to the earlier dynasties).


That's a very nice photo, Dark_Lord, and the artifact is beautiful. It does date to the Early Dynastic Period (specifically to around 3,100 to 2,900 BCE) and is a famous piece in the collection of the Met. That's probably the single-finest Egyptian collection in the States, by the way, and I've always wanted to see it.

It's kind of hard to see but note that a pair of arms reach down from the top, along the sides, to produce the ka glyph, so together with the ankh, the two glyphs could be taken to mean "life to your ka" (that's one of the conventional interpretations, anyway). It's very ritualistic and another good example of the beautiful craftsmanship in stone of which Early Dynastic craftsmen were capable. Unfortunately I don't think it's provenance is known; I remember that it was purchased in Egypt in the early 1900s.

As for how it functioned, your photo provides an especially good understanding of that. The libation, probably oil or water, was poured into the top loop of the ankh, and from there the liquid drained through the slit at the base and down into the lower, flared portion of the ankh. The tray would've been held at an angle so that the liquid could drip or pour off the bottom of the flared portion.

I think legionromanes is correct about advances in metallurgy in the Bronze Age leading to more reliance on bronze for ritualistic devices, but it's not as though stone was abandoned. I've seen numerous examples of gorgeous stone vessels and trays produced throughout later periods of dynastic history.

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#53    kmt_sesh

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 12:25 AM

I just logged onto the Met's website to see what else I might find in their collection, and nearly forgot about this signature piece of craftsmanship:

linked-image

laugh.gif Sorry, couldn't help myself. This is in fact another well-known artifact in their collection, but every time I see a photo of it, I find myself giggling. It has a strange effect on me.

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#54    cladking

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 02:56 AM

kmt_sesh on Mar 7 2009, 06:22 PM, said:

That's a very nice photo, Dark_Lord, and the artifact is beautiful. It does date to the Early Dynastic Period (specifically to around 3,100 to 2,900 BCE) and is a famous piece in the collection of the Met. That's probably the single-finest Egyptian collection in the States, by the way, and I've always wanted to see it.

It's kind of hard to see but note that a pair of arms reach down from the top, along the sides, to produce the ka glyph, so together with the ankh, the two glyphs could be taken to mean "life to your ka" (that's one of the conventional interpretations, anyway). It's very ritualistic and another good example of the beautiful craftsmanship in stone of which Early Dynastic craftsmen were capable. Unfortunately I don't think it's provenance is known; I remember that it was purchased in Egypt in the early 1900s.

As for how it functioned, your photo provides an especially good understanding of that. The libation, probably oil or water, was poured into the top loop of the ankh, and from there the liquid drained through the slit at the base and down into the lower, flared portion of the ankh. The tray would've been held at an angle so that the liquid could drip or pour off the bottom of the flared portion.

I think legionromanes is correct about advances in metallurgy in the Bronze Age leading to more reliance on bronze for ritualistic devices, but it's not as though stone was abandoned. I've seen numerous examples of gorgeous stone vessels and trays produced throughout later periods of dynastic history.



Thanks again.  I saw those arms and thought it was just damage
at the bottom rather than arms.  

How about those "horns" in the center of the ankh.  I think I've seen
similar before.   Do they have a known meaning?


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#55    kmt_sesh

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 05:34 AM

cladking on Mar 7 2009, 08:56 PM, said:

Thanks again.  I saw those arms and thought it was just damage
at the bottom rather than arms.  

How about those "horns" in the center of the ankh.  I think I've seen
similar before.   Do they have a known meaning?


I'm not sure I know what you mean by "horns." I see the side loops of the ankh and the little brackets that help to hold it in place for display, but you're probably not talking about either.

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#56    cladking

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 06:16 AM

kmt_sesh on Mar 7 2009, 11:34 PM, said:

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "horns." I see the side loops of the ankh and the little brackets that help to hold it in place for display, but you're probably not talking about either.



D'oh.  OK.  I mistook the brackets for part of the work.  

It also appears that a liquid would fill the "arms" of the ankh making it difficult to pour.  


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#57    kmt_sesh

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 06:42 AM

cladking on Mar 8 2009, 12:16 AM, said:

D'oh.  OK.  I mistook the brackets for part of the work.  

It also appears that a liquid would fill the "arms" of the ankh making it difficult to pour.


You're right. I didn't see it before but the arms are not closed off form the loop. Some liquid would swish into them but most of the liquid would still drip or poor off the bottom end.

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#58    cladking

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 07:32 PM

louie on Mar 5 2009, 10:40 AM, said:

We've translated this article from the Italian. Another translation that readers may find useful---used for ceremonial;funereal;ritualistic;shamanistic etc. purposes -often means; "we don't know what it was used for"...s8int.com

In the first wing of the Egyptian Museum of the Cairo between two rooms close to the Momias Room, one cannot help but be surprised to see in a small display cabinet, although not without some difficulty caused by the reflections of the light on the crystal that covers it, a solitary object similar to a wheel or stone disc.

This strange object has disturbed and continues disturbing all the Egyptologists that have had occasion to study it at great length. The first of them was its discoverer, Brian Walter Emery, one of the most important Egyptologists of 20th Century and the author of a classic volume on Egyptology, Archaic Egypt, that continues to be, after many years, an important bibliographical reference for the study and an understanding of the origins of the Old Egyptian Civilization

http://s8int.com/phile/page52.html



I'd really like to thank you for the thread.  This utterance has
been giving me a lot of trouble all along and I thought it was of
critical importance so was giving it far more thought than  was
actually warranted.

Utterance 313.

502a. To say: The phallus of Bȝ-bii is drawn; the double doors of heaven are opened.
502b. The double doors of heaven are locked; the way goes over the flames under that which the gods create,
503a. which allows each Horus to glide through, in which N. will glide through, in this flame under that which the gods create.
503b. They make a way for N., that N. may pass by it. N. is a Horus.

It's also nice to see something tangible that's mentioned in the
Pyramid Texts.  This might even be the actual lamp that inspir-
ed the utterance but I suspect not.  Later versions (as implied
by the utterance) were probably primarily merely for light rat-
her than signalling and made of metal.  



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#59    cladking

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 10:21 PM

This may be another utterance explained;  

Utterance 343.

558a. To say: Bd.t comes; the fire-pan burns.
558b. Those with (ready) hands stand to give an offering to N.

So long as the "pan" burns there is water for those with ready
hands to build.


Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#60    crystal sage

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 10:57 PM

linked-image  

It reminds me  of some sketches of anti gravity machines I saw once...

Can't find the site though...



laugh.gif   but then I started thinking about  spin cycles of washing machines.. turbo engines for motor boats....





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