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The Mysterious Egyptian Tri-Lobed Disc


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#466    kmt_sesh

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 01:07 AM

View PostShadowSot, on 16 April 2010 - 10:41 PM, said:

Worth noting as well that the device's wouldn't have worked well as batteries, and better as the jars that were used for religiouse texts, which they resemble.

That's something I've often heard, the fact that the device could generate a weak electrical field is merely incidental. I find that idea to be quite credible, given that even if it were designed to generate some electricity, there is nothing of which I'm aware in the Sassanid material culture to which it could've been applied.

I admit that the Baghdad battery is not something I've ever bothered to study beyond casual reading. The Sassanid culture is beyond the period of history in the Near East, and particularly in that area of the Near East, that I could identify as my forte. The Persian empire? Certainly, but a modest pre-Islamic culture of the early centuries CE is somewhat beyond my sphere of interest.

Still, an artifact like this one needs to be studied not as something separate but as something that was a part of the culture to which it belonged. And it does not appear that the Sassanids had any keen interest in electricity. :rolleyes:

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#467    path_finder

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 08:43 AM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 17 April 2010 - 01:07 AM, said:

And it does not appear that the Sassanids had any keen interest in electricity. :rolleyes:
Dear kmt_sesh,
I red somewhere a pertinent suggestion about the possible use of these jars: the electrochemical deposition of some metal on conductive surfaces (like today the nickelisation), in particular for the golden jewels.
In any case I want to develop a controversial discution on this subject, these jars being in my post just an example of advanced technology for this time.
Anyway no electricity has to be used in the design I suggested for the tri-lobed bowl.

Why make simple, when you can make complex?...

#468    shadowsot

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 01:44 PM

There's a suggestion that the jars were used for electroplating.

However, there's no evidence the jars actually worked, as the way that they were found would have prevented a carge from being drawn from 'em. The copper cylinder was completely sealed by the bitumen, as well as completely sealing the jar, which would have made it difficult to top them off. Which you would have needed to do with a chemical battery.

Additionally, there's no evidence of electroplating up to the 1800's, no pieces of jewelry or objects found that had been electroplated.

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#469    lightly

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 03:59 PM

hi..  just thought this was interesting.. who would like to poo poo it ?   lol


http://www.ancient-w...electricity.htm

Ancient India - In the Prince's Library of Ujjain in India, there is a well preserved document called the 'Agastya Samshita', which dates back to the first millennium BC. It contains a detailed description not only of how to construct an electric battery/cell, but also, how to utilize the battery to 'split' water into its constituent gasses.

The text runs as follows:

“Place a well-cleaned copper plate in an earthenware vessel. Cover it first by copper sulfate and then moist sawdust. After that put a mercury-amalgamated-zinc sheet on top of an energy known by the twin name of Mitra-Varuna. Water will be split by this current into Pranavayu and Udanavayu. A chain of one hundred jars is said to give a very active and effective force.”

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#470    Swede

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 06:48 PM

View Postlightly, on 17 April 2010 - 03:59 PM, said:

hi..  just thought this was interesting.. who would like to poo poo it ?   lol


http://www.ancient-w...electricity.htm

Ancient India - In the Prince's Library of Ujjain in India, there is a well preserved document called the 'Agastya Samshita', which dates back to the first millennium BC. It contains a detailed description not only of how to construct an electric battery/cell, but also, how to utilize the battery to 'split' water into its constituent gasses.

The text runs as follows:

“Place a well-cleaned copper plate in an earthenware vessel. Cover it first by copper sulfate and then moist sawdust. After that put a mercury-amalgamated-zinc sheet on top of an energy known by the twin name of Mitra-Varuna. Water will be split by this current into Pranavayu and Udanavayu. A chain of one hundred jars is said to give a very active and effective force.”

lightly - Haven't taken the time to dig into this too much, but I did notice that the source for the material in your reference is a book by Rene Noorbergen. A quick check on this individual may be enlightening. I'll try not to bias your conclusions.

Also, one must question an interpretation that led to the determination of a mercury/zinc amalgam. Just off the top of my head on this one, but it would appear rather problematic.

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#471    lightly

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 07:30 PM

View PostSwede, on 17 April 2010 - 06:48 PM, said:

lightly - Haven't taken the time to dig into this too much, but I did notice that the source for the material in your reference is a book by Rene Noorbergen. A quick check on this individual may be enlightening. I'll try not to bias your conclusions.

Also, one must question an interpretation that led to the determination of a mercury/zinc amalgam. Just off the top of my head on this one, but it would appear rather problematic.

.

  ah, ok, thanks Swede.. looks like the source,  and the science espoused ?, is questionable.

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#472    Swede

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 08:43 PM

View Postlightly, on 17 April 2010 - 07:30 PM, said:

ah, ok, thanks Swede.. looks like the source,  and the science espoused ?, is questionable.

Chuckle! A delightful understatement. I would concur.

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#473    path_finder

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 09:44 AM

View Postcladking, on 15 April 2010 - 04:07 AM, said:

Is this the tri lobed bowl in another dimension?
If you take in account the virtual axle (explained above in another post), you can see in the drawing herafter how the geometrical shape of the trilobed bowl can be use as a part of the whole design. As you can see, everything is related to the outer rim of the wheel, wich is another basic principle of the gravitic engines.
Some other important properties cannot be represented in this 2D drawing, but I hope this first level of information can help you to believe I'm not fully fool.
This object is really a marvel of optimization for the paths of the moving parts.

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#474    cluey

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 10:28 AM

I with in minutes researched all......and importantly....there is nothing on the Walter Bryan Emery site on Wiki.........like my dad always told me...*never...ever open your mouth and let the wind blow your tongue around unless you can back up what your saying with facts*..... :)

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#475    kmt_sesh

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 01:26 AM

View Postcluey, on 18 April 2010 - 10:28 AM, said:

I with in minutes researched all......and importantly....there is nothing on the Walter Bryan Emery site on Wiki.........like my dad always told me...*never...ever open your mouth and let the wind blow your tongue around unless you can back up what your saying with facts*..... :)

Emery mentions this tri-lobed vessel in his book Archaic Egypt, but it is not a significant part of the book. He makes only a couple of comments on it, as I recall.

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#476    cluey

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 03:25 AM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 19 April 2010 - 01:26 AM, said:

Emery mentions this tri-lobed vessel in his book Archaic Egypt, but it is not a significant part of the book. He makes only a couple of comments on it, as I recall.





thanks...as always.......will check it out :)

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#477    Harte

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 12:14 PM

View PostSwede, on 17 April 2010 - 06:48 PM, said:

lightly - Haven't taken the time to dig into this too much, but I did notice that the source for the material in your reference is a book by Rene Noorbergen. A quick check on this individual may be enlightening. I'll try not to bias your conclusions.

Also, one must question an interpretation that led to the determination of a mercury/zinc amalgam. Just off the top of my head on this one, but it would appear rather problematic.

According to this, your date is off as well:

Quote

Rao Saheb Krishnaji Vajhe had passed the engineering exam in 1891 from Pune. While looking for scriptures related to science, he found a few pages of the Agastya Samhita with Damodar Tryambak Joshi of Ujjain. These belonged to around Shaka Samvat 1550. Later on, after reading the said description in the pages of the Samhita, Dr. M.C.Sahastrabuddhe, the Head of the Sanskrit Department in Nagpur felt that the description was very similar to that of Daniel Cell. So he gave it to P.P. Hole, the Professor of Engineering at Nagpur, with a request to investigate. Agastya?s sources were as follows:
SOURCE

The bolded portion above refers to the year 1628 CE (1550 + 78)

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#478    lightly

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 01:20 PM

Thanks Harte,     but  i'm puzzled... because according to the source you linked ...    when the instructions were followed...  the result was a functional electric cell. ?   " Thus, a cell was formed and measured with a digital multimeter. It had an open circuit voltage of 1.38 volts and short circuit current of 23 milli amperes."

*?

Edited by lightly, 19 April 2010 - 02:15 PM.

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#479    Harte

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 03:36 PM

View Postlightly, on 19 April 2010 - 01:20 PM, said:

Thanks Harte,     but  i'm puzzled... because according to the source you linked ...    when the instructions were followed...  the result was a functional electric cell. ?   " Thus, a cell was formed and measured with a digital multimeter. It had an open circuit voltage of 1.38 volts and short circuit current of 23 milli amperes."

*?
That refers to this guy:

Quote

So he gave it to P.P. Hole, the Professor of Engineering at Nagpur, with a request to investigate. Agastya?s sources were as follows:
Prof. Hole was the one that tried to interpret what the Agastya Samhita was saying.

BTW, I have been unable to find this Veda, so obviously I don't believe it.  I've read quite a lot of Vedas (parts thereof anyway) and I've found in every instance that what was claimed was not to be found in the actual texts.

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#480    lightly

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 03:51 PM

View PostHarte, on 19 April 2010 - 03:36 PM, said:

That refers to this guy:

Prof. Hole was the one that tried to interpret what the Agastya Samhita was saying.

BTW, I have been unable to find this Veda, so obviously I don't believe it.  I've read quite a lot of Vedas (parts thereof anyway) and I've found in every instance that what was claimed was not to be found in the actual texts.

Harte

  okeydoke,  Thanks Harte  . . . *shrug*

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