54 replies to this topic

[aquatus1]

draconic chronicler on Mar 18 2009, 12:11 PM, said:

Except that sailors reported  a higher number of sea monsters and other strange things there, going all the way back to Columbus.

That's to be expected.  A new world is going to have many strange things in it to the newcomers.  Add a little maritime superstition and you have as many sea stories as you like.

draconic chronicler on Mar 18 2009, 12:16 PM, said:

Actually, many scholars now believe that Plato's Atlantis was probably based on the downfall  of the REAL Minoan civilization with the volanic explosion of Thera which clearly wiped out the minoan cities there.  While not as ancient as Plato's dates, there seem to be many parallels.

There probably are.  It's pretty hard to make up anything totally original.  Even Spiderman is set in Manhattan.

Quote

Troy was thought a myth too, until Schlieemann believed the myth and found it.  Thera does make far more sense than the Bahamas though.

Troy is still thought to be a myth.  That there are several cities that may have borne the name isn't going to stop that.

[draconic chronicler]

aquatus1 on Mar 18 2009, 09:12 AM, said:

That's to be expected.  A new world is going to have many strange things in it to the newcomers.  Add a little maritime superstition and you have as many sea stories as you like.



There probably are.  It's pretty hard to make up anything totally original.  Even Spiderman is set in Manhattan.



Troy is still thought to be a myth.  That there are several cities that may have borne the name isn't going to stop that.

I believe most archaeologists now believe Schliemann's site in Turkey is the Troy of Homer.  In fact, new discoveries show the city much larger than was orginally thought, and even conforms better to Homer's troy, than it did in Schlimann's time.

[3amfright]

psyche101 on Mar 16 2009, 11:31 PM, said:

Not quite - he did not write Timaeus and Critias as entertainment, it was a way to illustrate political ideals. He never imagined fish people under the sea -  some theorize he drew on actual previous events. At the time, nobody thought the story was intended to hold fact, only in modern times has the tale taken on a life of it's own.

Fish people under the sea.

That's great, if you are a fan of Aquaman.

I never said Atlantis was an under sea utopia filled with vast wonders and advanced technology but since it is assumed that I must think that because I choose to believe in Atlantis, I will explain further what my beliefs are .

I think Atlantis could very well have been real. A real place similar to Crete or Pompeii in its structure, society and eventual downfall. I would like to see further exploration of the Atlantic Ocean outside of the Straight of Gibraltar as well as particularly around Cape Verde.

I think also though that even as a ficticious place that Atlantis represents perhaps a warning that is imfamous in that ultimate power and utopia do not exist without total self destruction. Man is weak. That is why a God would have been a perfect character to offer utopia to man. His design is to be flawless, yet in the story Zues finds after the years have gone by that man has ruined their utopia for greed of power and destroys them.

Be what ever intent Plato had in telling the story of Atlantis and be it ficticious or an old tale of a place long ago, Atlantis to me is still a mystery to be further explored.

No matter if I only ever find it in Plato's writing.

Fish people...really?

Some how I totally forgot that this thread isn't even about atlantis but the bermuda triangle and I don't think either have any direct relation to the other. If there was any relation at all...the only I would guess in my own beliefs is that the islands that make up the triangle could been partial remains of the outer ring of atlantis....but I think my memory is faulty or I'm sure that they broke off of the united states during the whole plates moving bit....bah, really should stop writing with some much sugar in my system.

Edited by Grunge Artist, 18 March 2009 - 09:51 PM.

[aquatus1]

draconic chronicler on Mar 18 2009, 09:02 PM, said:

I believe most archaeologists now believe Schliemann's site in Turkey is the Troy of Homer.  In fact, new discoveries show the city much larger than was orginally thought, and even conforms better to Homer's troy, than it did in Schlimann's time.

Last I heard, there are eight cities in that area (indeed, the original site has several cities stacked on each other), that can claim the title to Troy.

Interestingly, it is the third city that seems to be the most likely candidate for Homer's Troy.

But that is neither here nor there.  Homer's Troy is and will always be fiction, much as Spiderman's Manhattan will always be fiction.  That the authors chose an existing location to set their stories is fairly irrelevant.

[psyche101]

draconic chronicler on Mar 18 2009, 10:16 PM, said:

Actually, many scholars now believe that Plato's Atlantis was probably based on the downfall  of the REAL Minoan civilization with the volanic explosion of Thera which clearly wiped out the minoan cities there.  While not as ancient as Plato's dates, there seem to be many parallels.  

Troy was thought a myth too, until Schlieemann believed the myth and found it.  Thera does make far more sense than the Bahamas though.

Even so, the Minoan Culture still rose and fell centuries before the construct of Atlantic, not sure why anyone would find Minoan wars more plausible than the destruction of Helike or the failed Athenian invasion of Sicily as these were closer again to Plato. Regardless of his inspiration it is clear he was writing texts to illustrate political ideas and only modern extensions of his writings lead to an actual city ideal.

[aquatus1]

So, now that we have gone from a tentative theory about the Bermuda Triangle, to the legend of Atlantis, to Plato's penchant for political commentary, and to archeological digging at the site of Homer's Troy, perhaps we can actually return to the original topic?

[psyche101]

Grunge Artist on Mar 19 2009, 07:43 AM, said:

Fish people under the sea.

That's great, if you are a fan of Aquaman.

I never said Atlantis was an under sea utopia filled with vast wonders and advanced technology but since it is assumed that I must think that because I choose to believe in Atlantis, I will explain further what my beliefs are .

I think Atlantis could very well have been real. A real place similar to Crete or Pompeii in its structure, society and eventual downfall. I would like to see further exploration of the Atlantic Ocean outside of the Straight of Gibraltar as well as particularly around Cape Verde.

I think also though that even as a ficticious place that Atlantis represents perhaps a warning that is imfamous in that ultimate power and utopia do not exist without total self destruction. Man is weak. That is why a God would have been a perfect character to offer utopia to man. His design is to be flawless, yet in the story Zues finds after the years have gone by that man has ruined their utopia for greed of power and destroys them.

Be what ever intent Plato had in telling the story of Atlantis and be it ficticious or an old tale of a place long ago, Atlantis to me is still a mystery to be further explored.

No matter if I only ever find it in Plato's writing.

Fish people...really?

Some how I totally forgot that this thread isn't even about atlantis but the bermuda triangle and I don't think either have any direct relation to the other. If there was any relation at all...the only I would guess in my own beliefs is that the islands that make up the triangle could been partial remains of the outer ring of atlantis....but I think my memory is faulty or I'm sure that they broke off of the united states during the whole plates moving bit....bah, really should stop writing with some much sugar in my system.

Doesn't Aquaman come from Atlantis? Hehe, you are liking the fish people then?

If you find it a mystery, more power to you, this is why expeditions get shot down before they start - a little historical research easily dispels myths and allows one to look for things that actually could exist.
If one is chasing a mental construct under  the sea, heck, why not go all the way an have a good look around for Aquaman while your down there? They both come from a traceable lineage to storybooks? Aquaman seems just as likely to exist as does the lost city of Atlantis? King of Atlantis since 1990?
There are many ancient civilizations from the Mayans to Egyptians. America's Clovis Culture is most intriguing. All fascinating, and quite real, I hope you find time to have a good look at some of them. It just seems strange to me to make up goals to chase when so many wonders exist to be seen.

The Bermuda Triangle Mystery is no mystery at all. I don't know how much further that query can go?

[Mattshark]

Anyone remember the dolphins are people from Atlantis thread?

[psyche101]

aquatus1 on Mar 19 2009, 09:17 AM, said:

So, now that we have gone from a tentative theory about the Bermuda Triangle, to the legend of Atlantis, to Plato's penchant for political commentary, and to archeological digging at the site of Homer's Troy, perhaps we can actually return to the original topic?

How else are we going to keep talking about a non-mystery

Just kidding, there is a theory portraying Atlantis as being located in the Bermuda triangle. - LINK to dodgy theory. I guess features like the Yonaguni Monument will continue to feed such fantasies.

Edited by psyche101, 18 March 2009 - 11:59 PM.

[3amfright]

psyche101 on Mar 18 2009, 11:45 PM, said:

Doesn't Aquaman come from Atlantis? Hehe, you are liking the fish people then?

If you find it a mystery, more power to you, this is why expeditions get shot down before they start - a little historical research easily dispels myths and allows one to look for things that actually could exist.
If one is chasing a mental construct under  the sea, heck, why not go all the way an have a good look around for Aquaman while your down there? They both come from a traceable lineage to storybooks? Aquaman seems just as likely to exist as does the lost city of Atlantis? King of Atlantis since 1990?
There are many ancient civilizations from the Mayans to Egyptians. America's Clovis Culture is most intriguing. All fascinating, and quite real, I hope you find time to have a good look at some of them. It just seems strange to me to make up goals to chase when so many wonders exist to be seen.

The Bermuda Triangle Mystery is no mystery at all. I don't know how much further that query can go?

I enjoy reading about other Civilizations, including the Mayans and to the Egyptians. They only help fuel my interest in Atlantis though. I guess, I have seen so many different takes on history, time lines, the rise and fall of civilizations, the little known wonders that go dismissed, that I feel Atlantis has formed just enough of a place in my mind to keep it a mystery. I'm a...guess the best way to explain it is a thread thinker. I find something about one culture/civilization and something in it plucks a string about another culture and so on. Most of the time the strings pluck out till there really is nothing in common, but sometimes the strings keep plucking and you eventually gotta wonder what story is really being told.

I guess I just like a good story.