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i feel sorry for them


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#1    Bizarro

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Posted 08 November 2002 - 06:47 PM

i found pics taken of the pows we have taken from the war in afghanistan.  i think its actually quite sad that we do these things to people, but yet i understand the psychological effects they are trying to inflict on them to make them talk.  we don't believe in physical torture, but i tend to think psychological torture could be worse.  can you imagine having a bag over your head for days or weeks at a time, how that might feel?  being in the hands of people of another culture and being totally helpless?  scary stuff.

if there was a meteor,
adrift amongst space,
set about on a collision course
not with Earth, but my face...
i wonder if id even know,
at what time i might,
be passed off like an old style
and by the meteor be smite?

- me, 1997

#2    Bizarro

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Posted 08 November 2002 - 06:49 PM

...

if there was a meteor,
adrift amongst space,
set about on a collision course
not with Earth, but my face...
i wonder if id even know,
at what time i might,
be passed off like an old style
and by the meteor be smite?

- me, 1997

#3    Bizarro

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Posted 08 November 2002 - 06:50 PM

...

if there was a meteor,
adrift amongst space,
set about on a collision course
not with Earth, but my face...
i wonder if id even know,
at what time i might,
be passed off like an old style
and by the meteor be smite?

- me, 1997

#4    Deathsythe Hell

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Posted 08 November 2002 - 08:45 PM

war sucks :(

"Your thoughts and dreams are no longer sacred, as they are exposed to a weapon known as remote
viewing and monitoring." -System of a Down

#5    Mr-X

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Posted 08 November 2002 - 09:32 PM

:(i feel sorry for them as well. Unfortunately we cant say or do anything to stop it. Its the not the soldiers fault their just doing what their told (lies).

Oh, you should never doubt what no one is sure about.
- Willy Wonka

#6    Kismit

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Posted 08 November 2002 - 11:19 PM

I can't believe thet anyone would think that treating people like this is productive.
  Maybe I am wiered but if somebody treated me like this for standing up for my beliefs ( no matter how twisted they might be ) I would want to kill them even more when I got out ......


#7    Homer

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Posted 09 November 2002 - 03:16 AM

Personally I think the soldiers are too lenient on them. They should be tortured until every last drop of information is drained. Then that information should be cross referenced with the others, who are tortured as well. When their usefulness has been fulfilled, they should be eliminated. Mr-X mentioned lies, and it was lies that drove these people to commit acts of terrorism against civilizations.

War is hell, but brutality will help gather information so victory will come quicker and actually save lives.



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#8    Bizarro

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Posted 09 November 2002 - 05:39 AM

yes torture and kill them because we are safeguarding CIVILIZATION!!!!  spare no evil in protecting civilization, we are always right and they are always wrong.  die heathens, but first let me saw off your pinky toe with a shard of glass...

if there was a meteor,
adrift amongst space,
set about on a collision course
not with Earth, but my face...
i wonder if id even know,
at what time i might,
be passed off like an old style
and by the meteor be smite?

- me, 1997

#9    Homer

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Posted 09 November 2002 - 05:56 AM

Provided sawing off the toe obtains information. Don't be fooled, that is the only way to preserve civilization. Thats how it has always been done and thats how it always will. The military and specific government agencies must be brutal to protect the masses. If we fail to adapt to a changing environment, then we will be the victim of that change.

אַ֭תָּה אֱלֹהֵ֣י יִשְׁעִ֑י

#10    Bizarro

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Posted 10 November 2002 - 12:55 AM

hmm, i don't think you got my point.  how do you protect civilization by acting barbaric?  its not really civilization if you protect it through brutality now, is it?


#11    Homer

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Posted 10 November 2002 - 02:42 AM

DSchwartz,
I got your point, and that is why I answered the way I did. I didn't say the military or specific government agencies were civilized, but the masses in civilized countries are civilized. Also, in order to protect the masses, the military and specific government agencies sometimes have to resort to barbaric measures. That's the way it has always been, and that's the way it will always be. When one is engaged in a war where the enemy is bent on your destruction by any brutal means, the powers that protect us can't concern themselves with civility. War sucks, but war is a reality. Welcome to reality.

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#12    Deathsythe Hell

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Posted 10 November 2002 - 03:54 PM

Boy it's a good thing the U.S is always making weapons so war can be prevented.

"Your thoughts and dreams are no longer sacred, as they are exposed to a weapon known as remote
viewing and monitoring." -System of a Down

#13    Bizarro

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Posted 10 November 2002 - 04:59 PM

yeah, Homer.  that's why in times of peace those same powers got together and signed a document called the geneva convention.  they wanted to make sure that just because you fight a war, you don't forget to show humanity to your enemy.  

when we go torturing people, they torture us in return.  maybe you are some old guy who doesn't fear war because you wouldn't have to fight it, but i respect that fear.  i believe war sucks and that is reality.  torture makes it much worse than it already is.


#14    Homer

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Posted 10 November 2002 - 06:54 PM

Deathsythe,
I understand your sarcasm, but understand it's the military might of the U.S. that's the reason it's enemies can't confront the U.S. by military means. It's the economic might of the U.S. that makes it possible to have this military might. So yes, the weapons of the U.S. armed forces have prevented a lot wars, and enabled our allies the edge to defeat a much larger force. Israel is the perfect example.

DSchwartz,
I undertsand what you mean about the Geneva Convention. Unfortunately, this is a different type of war and our enemies don't recognize the Geneva Convention. I have spent a number of years in the Middle East and have even been in combat operations in that region. You fail to grasp the concept of this war. There is no enemy capital to capture or airbases to blow up. Intelligence is the single greatest weapon we have, and if we lose that edge, then we lose the war.

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#15    cat

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Posted 11 November 2002 - 01:00 AM

The problem with torture to get information is this...

1. The person being tortured might not actually know anything. You can never be sure.

2. The person being tortured may have agreed in the name of religion that they will never tell anything to anyone no matter what they endure.

3. These people hate America and all the other countries like it. They don't care if they are tortured because they have succeeded in putting fear into the heart of these countries and their lives are insignificant in the face of that.

4. They can lie, how do you really know what they say is true?

5. Violence doesn't work, it never has and it never will.

Psychological and physical torture removes the victim from reality; you will not get valid results if you get any results at all.





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