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#16    The Proposer

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Posted 16 April 2004 - 04:50 PM

QUOTE (Azael @ Apr 16 2004, 04:35 PM)
QUOTE (The Proposer @ Apr 16 2004, 03:53 PM)
yes the ultimate source,can be no other than God.

There, thank you.





Here's an interesting concept I thought of.

Man has assumed that because there are laws of physics that these physics are predominant and prove higher powers do not exist.

However, as we learn more about science, we find that the laws of physics are not only bent, but on occasion snapped.  Not to mention supernatural phenomena, where the laws of physics are wholly ignored.

This makes me think.
In the film The Matrix the world exists with it's physics and whatnot because the machines allow it to exist.

In our world, do physics and sciences exist because God allows it to exist or because everything including God is subject to the same laws?

This raises an alarm - if God created physics and allowed them to exist, that means the world as we know it is a fabrication.  That opens of a world of possibilities, including that we are not living in the "real" world, but rather some false one.

The whole notion is hard to get your head around.  Our world could be entierly fake.  Atoms, evolution, the universe, DNA... all of it could really just be something slapped together to distract us.  If this is true, what is the "real" world?  Does it have any rules to it, or is it completely without boundary?

again this involves seperating the temporary from the permanent,the material manifestation is temporary,the material bodies of the entities are like prison houses for the permanent soul(us).

because we have not accepted that the ultimate enjoyer is God and we are his servers,we have been given a certain amount of free will,to make us realise we are not gods or the real enjoyers.

this world is real,like dreams are real,but it is temporary,our lifetimes are less than a blinking of an eye in the time of the universe,God knows what he is doing and because he loves us he knows the exact punishment we require.

also if you think about it most people like to be cheated,and they will be led by fakes,i think god lets the cheated be cheated so they will learn.


#17    Venomshocker

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Posted 16 April 2004 - 04:55 PM

QUOTE
Eventually, all this energy will expand to a point break, when it will snap back, like a rubber band, contracting back to that less than dimensional point to await the next “Big Bang.” Repeat. Ad Infinitum


The Universe is accelerating outward, and shows no sign of slowing down, or "snapping back" as you might say. I believe this theory is outdated and very,very few astrophysists actually support the notion.

The universe had one beginning point, not multiple. There is absolutely no scientific evidence that the universe will collapse in on itself. The universe definately only had ONE beginning point.

Where did that beginning point come from? The only feasible explanation I can come up with, is God created it from another dimension that exists outside our 4-dimensional universe.



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"Ultimately there is no such thing as meaning, only experience and creativity."  ~ Pleiadians

#18    Azael

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Posted 16 April 2004 - 05:07 PM

QUOTE (The Proposer @ Apr 16 2004, 05:50 PM)
because we have not accepted that the ultimate enjoyer is God and we are his servers,we have been given a certain amount of free will,to make us realise we are not gods or the real enjoyers.

this world is real,like dreams are real,but it is temporary,our lifetimes are less than a blinking of an eye in the time of the universe,God knows what he is doing and because he loves us he knows the exact punishment we require.

also if you think about it most people like to be cheated,and they will be led by fakes,i think god lets the cheated be cheated so they will learn.

That has nothing to do what I just said.


#19    Venomshocker

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Posted 16 April 2004 - 05:15 PM

QUOTE (The Proposer @ Apr 16 2004, 05:50 PM)

also if you think about it most people like to be cheated,

To The Prosper. What are you thinking??? Other people like to be cheated??? I dont know anyone like that.And that God lets people be cheated, so they will learn?What if they never knew they were cheated. How old are you?? You state some really bizzare things that seemingly dont relate to the current subject at all. You should really watch what you post. Sometimes your statements just seem to be ramblings just so you can fill up space. And another suggestion, you tend to quote someone else's entire post, taking up alot of room, on the forum. Just quote whats relevant.

Edited by Venomshocker, 16 April 2004 - 05:24 PM.

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#20    schadeaux

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Posted 16 April 2004 - 05:25 PM

QUOTE (Venomshocker @ Apr 16 2004, 09:55 AM)
The Universe is accelerating outward, and shows no sign of slowing down, or "snapping back" as you might say. I believe this theory is outdated and very,very few astrophysists actually support the notion.

The theory is hardly out dated (my standards, I guess, I am old), but I agree that the universe has but a single beginning point.  And whether this point was used once or multiple times is irrelevant.  

QUOTE
There is absolutely no scientific evidence that the universe will collapse in on itself.

Likewise, there is no scientific proof that it will continue expanding.

QUOTE
The only feasible explanation I can come up with, is God created it from another dimension that exists outside our 4-dimensional universe.

And where did that 4th dimentional energy come from?  A fifth dimentional universe?  And that from a sixth?  Etc...?

And again, who created God that exists beyond all these dimensions?

Infinity has still not been addressed.

Edited by schadeaux, 16 April 2004 - 05:27 PM.

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To think and not study is dangerous."
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#21    The Proposer

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Posted 16 April 2004 - 05:30 PM

QUOTE (Azael @ Apr 16 2004, 06:07 PM)
QUOTE (The Proposer @ Apr 16 2004, 05:50 PM)
because we have not accepted that the ultimate enjoyer is God and we are his servers,we have been given a certain amount of free will,to make us realise we are not gods or the real enjoyers.

this world is real,like dreams are real,but it is temporary,our lifetimes are less than a blinking of an eye in the time of the universe,God knows what he is doing and because he loves us he knows the exact punishment we require.

also if you think about it most people like to be cheated,and they will be led by fakes,i think god lets the cheated be cheated so they will learn.

That has nothing to do what I just said.

i am explaining the differences between illusion and reality.


#22    Venomshocker

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Posted 16 April 2004 - 05:34 PM

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Likewise, there is no scientific proof that it will continue expanding.

The fact the universe is expanding and actually accelerating while its expanding, is evidence  that it will continue expanding.

The 4th dimension in our current universe is time. Before the Big Bang there was no time. Time began when that little point exploded. Outside our 4-dimensional universe there is no time dimension, therefore the things that exist outside our dimension, have the possibility of being infinite. For example like a God or Gods, or whatever you choose to beilieve.

Therefore nothing would have had to create a God, God would always have been there, he would be eternal.



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"Ultimately there is no such thing as meaning, only experience and creativity."  ~ Pleiadians

#23    The Proposer

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Posted 16 April 2004 - 05:36 PM

yes venomshocker it is a fact we like being cheated,we surround ourselves with temporary material goods for comfort,I was answering your qustion about theoretical physics thes are nothing but comforters,we feel comfortable with them,safe,but are they permanent,no,we are just pacifying ourselves being cheated,babies like to suck dummies,do they obtain mothers milk from them ,no,this cheating ourselves goes on all our lives,thats why it is essential we find the real truth of life and stick with it.

sorry about quotes but dont have hang of them yet.


#24    The Proposer

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Posted 16 April 2004 - 05:46 PM

QUOTE (Venomshocker @ Apr 16 2004, 05:55 PM)
QUOTE




The universe had one beginning point, not multiple. There is absolutely no scientific evidence that the universe will collapse in on itself. The universe definately only had ONE beginning point.

Where did that beginning point come from? The only feasible explanation I can come up with, is God created it from another dimension that exists outside our 4-dimensional universe.################################How do you know this is the case,I could theorise that the black holes are the multiple points of vthis mechanism,ie that matter is continually sucked in destroyed then recreated,so no exact beggining point regards time and place,these combined beggining and endpoints could be part of a permanent pattern,The Vedas say that Visnu lies down in the causal ocean and the material creation is formed through is pores,i presume he breaths through them,thus destroying and creating.###############################

my reply between marks.
within above quote.


#25    The Proposer

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Posted 16 April 2004 - 05:49 PM

regarding Time,i think it is only witnessed when acting upon the temporary material structures.,or maybe that could be the defination of time the rate of decay of the temp structures.


#26    schadeaux

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Posted 16 April 2004 - 05:51 PM

QUOTE (Venomshocker @ Apr 16 2004, 10:34 AM)
QUOTE
Likewise, there is no scientific proof that it will continue expanding.

The fact the universe is expanding and actually accelerating while its expanding, is evidence  that it will continue expanding.

Yes, it is accelerating now.  Can you, or our science, prove that it will continue to accelerate forever?  What happens once it accelerates to the speed of light?  Do we advance to a new form of existence?  Did we, now, advance from a former existence?

QUOTE
The 4th dimension in our current universe is time. Before the Big Bang there was no time. Time began when that little point exploded. Outside our 4-dimensional universe there is no time dimension, therefore the things that exist outside our dimension, have the possibility of being infinite. For example like a God or Gods, or whatever you choose to beilieve.

No time??  Without time there is no movement, no cause-effect.  There is only unchanging stasis.  How could something that does not move through time, change?  Let alone move between dimensions.

And your argument about being infinate without time is confusing.  The very defininition of "infinity" is the limitless extent of time.  So how can something be infinite if there is no time?

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To think and not study is dangerous."
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#27    Azael

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Posted 16 April 2004 - 09:55 PM

QUOTE (schadeaux @ Apr 16 2004, 06:51 PM)
Yes, it is accelerating now.  Can you, or our science, prove that it will continue to accelerate forever?  What happens once it accelerates to the speed of light?  Do we advance to a new form of existence?  Did we, now, advance from a former existence?

No time??  Without time there is no movement, no cause-effect.  There is only unchanging stasis.  How could something that does not move through time, change?  Let alone move between dimensions.

And your argument about being infinate without time is confusing.  The very defininition of "infinity" is the limitless extent of time.  So how can something be infinite if there is no time?

Fun fact about accelerating bodies: time reacts differently to them the faster they go.
In effect, the universe is accelerating while slowing down (Okay, okay, bad pun. I mean although the universe is speeding up as it travels it begins slowing down in time)


As for the time argument...
You must remember that time is an abstract concept that has boundaries in physics that are easily bent.

Supernatural phenomena don't act on time. The concept does not affect them.
This is why there are cases in which reincarnated people are haunted by their own ghost from a past life.  The soul is still there, but it exists on every level of time.

You must come to realize that the laws of this world can be bent, broken, and shaped.  

There is no spoon.
Hell, there isn't even a "you".


#28    The Proposer

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Posted 17 April 2004 - 11:58 AM

ive not heard of reincarnated people being haunted by themselves.

the real you ,is the spirit spark called the soul,the material bodies are temporary.


#29    Azael

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Posted 17 April 2004 - 01:30 PM

QUOTE (The Proposer @ Apr 17 2004, 12:58 PM)
ive not heard of reincarnated people being haunted by themselves.

the real you ,is the spirit spark called the soul,the material bodies are temporary.

I have. There was one episode of Unexplained Mysteries with the a lady haunted by her own ghost in it.

Bodies are temporary, but they need not be. Stronger denizens of the spirit world can fully materialize themselves, such as the angels.


#30    MoonBaby

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 08:45 PM

sorry

Edited by MoonBaby, 20 April 2004 - 08:47 PM.

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