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proving the obvious


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#16    Xenojjin

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Posted 17 April 2004 - 04:10 AM

  dontgetit.gif


still at it but metaphorically !  blink.gif  

In the way, the supernatural is what's behind the curtain. Normally, you only need to see what's happening in stage. That's how reality works. If you don't know then it's for the best. Actually, learning about the supernatural only increases the number of things you don't know.

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#17    X~File_Agent

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Posted 17 April 2004 - 05:08 AM

I agree with Xeno.  This is another way for Proposer to keep the whole Evo Vs Creation thread going.  Funny, how you said people are stupid who can't see past the paper.  But cmon' don't take us for idiots.  We all know what you really meant by starting this thread.  

Give it a rest.  Not matter how much you think you're right, you're not convincing anyone else.  These threads are here to discuss, not push your beliefs, no matter how logical they seem to you.  By using metaphorical text.

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#18    bathory

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Posted 17 April 2004 - 05:48 AM

i get it! what proposer is attempting to do is offer an amusing satire on creationist fundamentalism!  


#19    Venomshocker

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Posted 17 April 2004 - 05:50 AM

Hey The Prosper. And why do you keep going on, and on about the vedas? You make them sound like they are more historically accurate than the bible and modern science. Are you a hindu? You think hindu gods are behind creation?

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#20    The Proposer

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Posted 17 April 2004 - 11:52 AM

lets just suppose we discover a sandcastle on a desserted beach,we should discuss how it got there and conclude something.

you ignore this when witnessing the design of sandunes.


The wind creates sandunes.

the wind is air movement,due to factors created by the sun(inc earth movement)

the sun exists,ir radiates energy,which goes to creating the sandunes.

the suns energy comes from the breakdown of atomic bundles,trapped energy is realeased,the atomic structures are temporary,whereas the trapped and universal energy appear to be prmanent,now it would advance our knowledge if we could trace the source of this energy.

Big bangs are no good because they would only be a temporary energy store like the atomic bundles,so would be a stopgap conclusion.

Venomshocker.,God is not exclusive to individual religions like the sun no matter what our theorys or beliefs or names for him are,God will remain God,also like the sun it will remain the same regardless of our assumptions


#21    The Proposer

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Posted 17 April 2004 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE (X~File_Agent @ Apr 17 2004, 06:08 AM)
I agree with Xeno.  This is another way for Proposer to keep the whole Evo Vs Creation thread going.  Funny, how you said people are stupid who can't see past the paper.  But cmon' don't take us for idiots.  We all know what you really meant by starting this thread.  

Give it a rest.  Not matter how much you think you're right, you're not convincing anyone else.  These threads are here to discuss, not push your beliefs, no matter how logical they seem to you.  By using metaphorical text.

*SIGH*  disgust.gif

Why give up on an active topic,it doesnt make sense.

what type of beliefs do you think I am trying to push.thats an offensive remark.

I only seek the truth ,as others do I hope.


#22    The Proposer

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Posted 17 April 2004 - 12:07 PM

I also suppose that looking at all created man made designs it is correct to assume the work that went into the design and creation,therefore I would have no difficulty in believing that the uniform patterns of a magnetic field  definitely have or have had an intelligence behind them.

I in no way can see how these have formed by chance,its like believing the childs bucket,was created by randomness alone.


please try to give proper arguments against these facts then we can progress.


#23    bathory

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Posted 17 April 2004 - 01:03 PM

what facts may i ask? all you have done is manage to repeat what was said in the creation vs evolution thread (eg God did it), just this time, it is thinly veiled through metaphors?




#24    The Proposer

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Posted 17 April 2004 - 02:28 PM

QUOTE (bathory @ Apr 17 2004, 02:03 PM)
what facts may i ask? all you have done is manage to repeat what was said in the creation vs evolution thread (eg God did it), just this time, it is thinly veiled through metaphors?

it is not thinly veiled through metaphors,these things are actual physical objects and actual occurences,ie facts.

i'll assume for others benefits that god didnt do it ,then it becomes quite confusing,because the manifestations definitely point away from chance or randomness,so lay your answer on me.


#25    Venomshocker

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Posted 17 April 2004 - 04:26 PM

The Prosper, Do you believe in one God? or, in many gods as supported by the vedas? Like Prajapati, Indra,Dyaus,Aditi and Ushas. Do you think all these gods helped create too?

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#26    The Proposer

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Posted 17 April 2004 - 07:07 PM

QUOTE (Venomshocker @ Apr 17 2004, 05:26 PM)
The Prosper, Do you believe in one God? or, in many gods as supported by the vedas? Like Prajapati, Indra,Dyaus,Aditi and Ushas. Do you think all these gods helped create too?

It would be common sense to assume that god doesnt carry out every single bit of work  himself,.

who comes to arrest you if you break the law,?

it is not the head of the government,the prime minister Blair himself,but one of many law enforcement officers.

WARNING! (for the genuine sceptics)the above is a comparative anology,because I am unable to describe the spiritual realm in simpler laymans terms,a modicom of grey matter and imagining may be required.,please remember it is not exactly what actually takes place,its just a simple down to earth way of describing things.


the Vedas ,by the way,point to one supreme controller,Krsna.

and the word Hindu is of Moslem origin meaning,the people over the river.


#27    The Proposer

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Posted 17 April 2004 - 07:09 PM

yes there are many Gods or Demi Gods ,each coming under The Supreme Lords control,and each with allocated tasks.


#28    PsychicPenguin

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Posted 17 April 2004 - 10:54 PM

Why does everything that exist has to be designed?????

QUOTE
lets just suppose we discover a sandcastle on a desserted beach,we should discuss how it got there and conclude something.

you ignore this when witnessing the design of sandunes.


The wind creates sandunes.

the wind is air movement,due to factors created by the sun(inc earth movement)

the sun exists,ir radiates energy,which goes to creating the sandunes.


Does it mean that the sanddunes are designed???? Supposed we discover a sandcastle on a desserted beach. Based on our knowledge, nature does not create sandcastles, it creates sanddunes. It is just straight forward to conclude that somebody created the sand castle and not the wind.

Supposed we discover a sand dune on a desserted beach. Which one do you think is correct?
1. It was created by the wind.
2. It was created by somebody.

Please answer this question. 1 or 2?

Edited by PsychicPenguin, 17 April 2004 - 10:54 PM.


#29    Venomshocker

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Posted 18 April 2004 - 01:23 AM

The Prosper, I dont think you really know what the vedas teach. The main God in the vedas is Brahman. And this main God created everything, and IS everything. If you believe what the vedas teach, you have to believe that all matter, and energy is God. Every person is a God. Every rock/pebble and star is a God. Everything is God. YOu hurt the enviroment, you are hurting God. Krishna is the central hero in the Mahabharata. He is not the creator.I have read many parts of the vedas, and I believe your in error, and your misenterpeting them.

It's really hard to argue with someone, or even debate with them about creationism, if they believe everything is God. How are you going to argue that?? How can you even hope to prove something like that.



Edited by Venomshocker, 18 April 2004 - 02:16 AM.

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#30    X~File_Agent

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Posted 18 April 2004 - 03:59 AM

The Proposer
QUOTE
Why give up on an active topic,it doesnt make sense.


The problem is the topic will never end.  In your mind you are right, and everything you know is right.  You took offense to my comment, yet you clearly called people who can't see past the paper stupid.  As in folks who can't see the intelligent design behind it all.  Like I said earlier, you arguments are NOT convincing anyone, yes everyone is in pursuit of the "ultimate" truth, however you feel you've reached that conclusion.  Excuse me if I'm wrong in making that assumption.  

Like Venom says....
QUOTE
It's really hard to argue with someone, or even debate with them about creationism, if they believe everything is God. How are you going to argue that?? How can you even hope to prove something like that.


This is why topics like these will go around in circles, just like the Evolution Vs. Creationism thread.


"All lies Lead to the Truth" - XFiles
"Lately the only thing keeping me from being a serial killer, is my distaste for manual labor." - Dilbert

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