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proving the obvious


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#31    PsychicPenguin

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Posted 18 April 2004 - 04:44 AM

QUOTE (The Proposer @ Apr 17 2004, 08:09 PM)
yes there are many Gods or Demi Gods ,each coming under The Supreme Lords control,and each with allocated tasks.

It looks like you have learn Hinduism with Christian interpretation. GOOD JOB!


#32    The Proposer

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 08:48 AM

QUOTE (PsychicPenguin @ Apr 17 2004, 11:54 PM)
Why does everything that exist has to be designed?????

QUOTE


Supposed we discover a sand dune on a desserted beach. Which one do you think is correct?
1. It was created by the wind.
2. It was created by somebody.

Please answer this question. 1 or 2?

obviously 2 is the answer,as with sandunes.

there is no such religeon as hinduism,they various so called Hindu religeons are variations on the Vedas.

things that exist point to a designer


#33    The Proposer

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 08:54 AM

QUOTE (Venomshocker @ Apr 18 2004, 02:23 AM)
The Prosper, I dont think you really know what the vedas teach. The main God in the vedas is Brahman. And this main God created everything, and IS everything. If you believe what the vedas teach, you have to believe that all matter, and energy is God. Every person is a God. Every rock/pebble and star is a God. Everything is God. YOu hurt the enviroment, you are hurting God. Krishna is the central hero in the Mahabharata. He is not the creator.I have read many parts of the vedas, and I believe your in error, and your misenterpeting them.

It's really hard to argue with someone, or even debate with them about creationism, if they believe everything is God. How are you going to argue that?? How can you even hope to prove something like that.

you are incorrect Brahma is the highest of the material beings,the longest lived of the mortals,yes he also creates as we do.

read a correct interpretation by someone who followed the rules.

His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivednta Swami Prabhupada,all is not God the material energy is his inferior energy,and we are independent souls.

ther are about 150 interpretations of the baghavad gita in english only one is authorised,and even evil people have altered parts of some versions of this.


#34    The Proposer

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 08:58 AM

QUOTE (X~File_Agent @ Apr 18 2004, 04:59 AM)
The Proposer
QUOTE
Why give up on an active topic,it doesnt make sense.


The problem is the topic will never end.  In your mind you are right, and everything you know is right.  You took offense to my comment, yet you clearly called people who can't see past the paper stupid.  As in folks who can't see the intelligent design behind it all.  Like I said earlier, you arguments are NOT convincing anyone, yes everyone is in pursuit of the "ultimate" truth, however you feel you've reached that conclusion.  Excuse me if I'm wrong in making that assumption.  

Like Venom says....
QUOTE
It's really hard to argue with someone, or even debate with them about creationism, if they believe everything is God. How are you going to argue that?? How can you even hope to prove something like that.


This is why topics like these will go around in circles, just like the Evolution Vs. Creationism thread.

i think over all i have given the best argument for the existence of a creator,nothing anyone else has said has convinced me its a load of pap.


#35    PsychicPenguin

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 12:28 PM

QUOTE (The Proposer @ Apr 19 2004, 09:48 AM)
[QUOTE]

Supposed we discover a sand dune on a desserted beach. Which one do you think is correct?
1. It was created by the wind.
2. It was created by somebody.

Please answer this question. 1 or 2?[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]
obviously 2 is the answer,as with sandunes.

So every single sand dune on earth was made by somebody and not the wind???  rolleyes.gif

So all magnetic lines are created by some invisible beings and not just magnetism???  disgust.gif  


#36    Venomshocker

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 06:46 PM

QUOTE
Brahman (the "creator" god) IS his creation. The cosmos is not so much a creation, but more an emanation from him.

All the humans, animals, and and gods, and even objects is one divine being.

The overcoming of Maya to perceive true reality (Brahman) thus constitutes an important task in Hinduism... you and God are one...

The main problem with the Hindu Gods is they never existed!...they were only in the minds of the novelists!...

    Rama and Krishna for example never existed, only in the mind of the novelist who wrote the epics Ramayana and Mahabharata, like Hamlet or Sherlock Holmes who never existed, only in the mind of the writer... or like the gods of Greece, Zeus, Apollo, Aphrodite, who only existed in the mind of Homer when he wrote the Iliad… and afterwards, the Romans copied them changing their names to Jupiter, Apollo, Venus... but they never existed, and they do not exist now!...they never made a star, not even an atom...



http://religion-cults.com/Eastern/Hinduism/hindu4.htm

I dunno man, how are you gonna prove everything is God? Or even show evidence for it?


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"Ultimately there is no such thing as meaning, only experience and creativity."  ~ Pleiadians

#37    GunnerCDM

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 07:05 PM

Woah... my brain just basically gave out after all that lmao. I do believe your both partially right mostly because i'm stuck somewhere in the middle, such as chaos is between heaven and hell in the great battle they're supposed to have or w/e. We have proven though that the universe itself is still growing which really could make a point for either of you. Also god's supposed to be all powerfull so therfore he could do it all by himself, or in an intresting twist maybe herself? Then again evolution could have been the main cause to by chain reactions and such. Could either of you tell me exactly what you think happened and why you think your right?


#38    The Proposer

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 07:40 PM

QUOTE (PsychicPenguin @ Apr 19 2004, 01:28 PM)
[QUOTE=The Proposer,Apr 19 2004, 09:48 AM] [QUOTE]

Supposed we discover a sand dune on a desserted beach. Which one do you think is correct?
1. It was created by the wind.
2. It was created by somebody.

Please answer this question. 1 or 2?[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]
obviously 2 is the answer,as with sandunes. [/QUOTE]
So every single sand dune on earth was made by somebody and not the wind???  rolleyes.gif

So all magnetic lines are created by some invisible beings and not just magnetism???  disgust.gif

yes I believe so,the same as every wooden cabinet was made by somebody not just by a hammer.

also the invisible beings you talk of are visible to some,there is a method for developing the eyes to see them.

im not convinced that black holes,quasars and pulsars exist,but if an atronomer said I needed to purchase the correct telescope to witness them,then I would assume he is being truthfull.


#39    The Proposer

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 07:45 PM

Ive not read your link venom because I only read the correct interpretation of The Vedas,by someone who has followed the rules ,please search under the name i mentioned earlier,and also regarding the later alterations to his texts,(so bogus gurus could mislead people,there is a theory that he was poisoned,Prabhupada.org is a good one to look under,take note of the book changes tho,dont forget he actually practised the prescribed life of the Vedas,all the other commentators did not or didnt give it their completeness.


#40    The Proposer

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 07:51 PM

QUOTE (GunnerCDM @ Apr 19 2004, 08:05 PM)
Woah... my brain just basically gave out after all that lmao. I do believe your both partially right mostly because i'm stuck somewhere in the middle, such as chaos is between heaven and hell in the great battle they're supposed to have or w/e. We have proven though that the universe itself is still growing which really could make a point for either of you. Also god's supposed to be all powerfull so therfore he could do it all by himself, or in an intresting twist maybe herself? Then again evolution could have been the main cause to by chain reactions and such. Could either of you tell me exactly what you think happened and why you think your right?

best to read the authorised version of Vedas by the author I have mention.

all the other commentaries are based on speculation and whims.
Krsna has an eternal female escort Radharani.

Brahma is the creator of the material universe which is one quarter of the whloe creation.

regarding the Vedas please note that in comparrison to the bible where actual historical events and christs and others parables have been successfully seperated,this is not the case with some translation of vedas,some factual storie have become mixed with analogical tales,it seems.


#41    GunnerCDM

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 07:53 PM

the book isn't really what i want to read i wanted to know what you and penguin both believe what happened and how it happened in your own words and beliefs


#42    The Proposer

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 08:06 PM

QUOTE (GunnerCDM @ Apr 19 2004, 08:53 PM)
the book isn't really what i want to read i wanted to know what you and penguin both believe what happened and how it happened in your own words and beliefs

Although I would like to spout my own theories on everything,i think this would be unfare and present a faulty picture,simply because I am not a pure soul,im a sinner,like most others ,so it would be hipocritical of me ,so I have to humble myself and point you in the direction of the higher source,my interpretations would definitely be faulty.


#43    PsychicPenguin

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 08:09 PM

QUOTE
yes I believe so,the same as every wooden cabinet was made by somebody not just by a hammer.


So you are going to the ultimate cause argument? You do realize that the ultimate cause does not have to be a God, don't you? The ultimate cause does not have to be intelligent, and the ultimate cause does not have to design everything.

When you walk through a dessert, you leave behind your footprints. You are the creator of your footprints. Does it mean that you designed your footprints?

Now a snail moves across a sidewalk, leaving behind a slimy track. Did the snail design the track?

Supposed we play dice. I throw 3 and you throw 6. You become the winner. Did you designed yourself to be a winner?

Oh.. btw.. where is your Vedas translation?


#44    The Proposer

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 08:25 PM

Edit; removed unnecessary quote
think practically,because the boy made a sandcastle,did he design and make the bucket?

because I design something doesnt mean im the ultimate creator,I'll try to do link to Vedas,but if you wish search under Prabhupada Baghavad Gita as it is,also be very wary of later book alterations,these are compared on a site under changes to prabhupada's books.

Edited by Magikman, 22 April 2004 - 04:22 AM.


#45    PsychicPenguin

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 08:27 PM

QUOTE
http://religion-cult...uism/hindu4.htm

I dunno man, how are you gonna prove everything is God? Or even show evidence for it?


That link sucks... Venom, if you want to learn something about Hinduism, then you have to find a Hindu source, not a Christian fundamentalist. The author has absolutely no idea on what he is talking about.

Some quotes:

The main problem with the Hindu Gods is they never existed!...they were only in the minds of the novelists!

The main problem with the sentence is that it applies to Christian God as well.

I don't find too many problems with seeing God in everything. Why a creator must be different from its creation? In fact it is provides an answer to one of the fundamental question "Who created God?"  





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