Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

"Who Mined American Copper 5,000 Years Ago?"


  • Please log in to reply
101 replies to this topic

#1    kaiserh

kaiserh

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 49 posts
  • Joined:06 Apr 2005

Posted 12 April 2009 - 09:44 AM

I am not sure if this was posted before ,could not find it but I think this is very interesting.I have never heard of this before,located  Northern Peninsula of Michigan.

this is what Paulina Zelitsky said

Quote

the average depth is probably like 20 feet deep for the pit mines, but there were many pit mines that were excavated through solid rock 60 feet down. So, whoever did that obviously had a technology far beyond anything that was known to the native Americans at that time who were not interested in anything more than float copper, copper they picked up off the ground. But this is one of the great - I hate to use the word conspiracy, but it certainly is suppressed evidence that American scholars have known about for more than 100 years that there was a huge copper mining enterprise in upper Michigan that lasted from 3,000 B. C. to 1,200 B. C.


Quote

For some 1800 years, beginning abruptly about 3000 BC, some industrious peoples mined ore equivalent to 500,000 tons of copper from Michigan's Isle Royale and Keweenaw Peninsula. Who were these mysterious miners, and what happened to all all that copper? It certainly hasn't been found in the relics of North American Indians. And where was the ore smelted? About all the unidentified miners left behind are some of the crude tools they used to pound out chunks of ore from their pit mines (5000 pit mines on Isle Royale alone). Outside of some cairns and slabrock ruins, there is little to help pin down these miners. Mainstream archeologists attribute all these immense labors to a North American "Copper Culture" -- certainly not to copper-hungry visitors from foreign shores. Admittedly, many copper artifacts have been dug up from North American mounds, but only a tiny fraction of the metal the Michigan mines must have yielded.


http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf090/sf090a01.htm

I

Edited by kaiserh, 12 April 2009 - 09:47 AM.


#2    crystal sage

crystal sage

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,418 posts
  • Joined:14 Mar 2006
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Australia

Posted 12 April 2009 - 12:49 PM

wink2.gif   You might find this interesting....

http://www.atthecreation.com/ROAD/UNDERWATER.RD.html






..... and...

http://www.dayooper.com/CopperCulture.htm

Quote

In Michigan Prehistory, as far back as possibly 17,000 years ago, in Michigan's copper area, a prehistoric race or races of people mined and worked copper using primitive methods. Around 10,000 prehistoric Copper miners pits on the South Shore of Lake Superior and on Isle Royale attest to a large and thriving prehistoric culture based on Copper Mining in this area. Relatively little is known about these ancient miners, but, many theories abound regarding this group of prehistoric miners.




Quote

Dr Henriette Mertz, in her book, "The Mystic Symbol," (1986) speculates that the ancient Phoenician mariners traveled to Upper Michigan to mine the extremely pure and abundant copper lodes to satisfy the demands of the ancient Egyptians and Greeks. The mines of Sinai, she says had been played out by that time, and those of Crete were too meager. Records spoke of an alien red-skinned people linked with the import of copper and that it took three years for the ocean vessles to return with their copper. Mertz cites tablets found in Michigan with hieroglyphic and cuneiform writing, often dismissed as forgeries, as evidence of later contact with the Mediterranean



#3    DieChecker

DieChecker

    I'm a Rogue Scholar

  • Member
  • 23,867 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon, USA

  • Hey, I'm not wrong. I'm just not completely right.

Posted 12 April 2009 - 04:43 PM

It is interesting. I wonder how they came up with the dates and timelines? C-14 dating?

The amount of ore dug out sounds kind of speculative too. There is no way to know how much copper came out of the pit mines. The article says that they used stone tools to dig the pits.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#4    kaiserh

kaiserh

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 49 posts
  • Joined:06 Apr 2005

Posted 12 April 2009 - 09:31 PM

crystal sage on Apr 12 2009, 05:49 AM, said:



thanks for the links ,very interesting,just surprised none talks about it much,not even discovery channel.



#5    kaiserh

kaiserh

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 49 posts
  • Joined:06 Apr 2005

Posted 12 April 2009 - 09:43 PM

DieChecker on Apr 12 2009, 09:43 AM, said:

It is interesting. I wonder how they came up with the dates and timelines? C-14 dating?

The amount of ore dug out sounds kind of speculative too. There is no way to know how much copper came out of the pit mines. The article says that they used stone tools to dig the pits.


it was determind by scientists and engineers,there were tool found but scientists do not think native american had anything to do with this,there is no proof of this.

Quote

Scientists and engineers estimate that it would have required 10,000 men 1,000 years to develop the extensive operations carried on throughout the region. It is estimated that 1.5 billion pounds of copper were mined by these unknown people.



#6    hetrodoxly

hetrodoxly

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 5,044 posts
  • Joined:29 May 2006

Posted 12 April 2009 - 11:21 PM

I can't see why it wasn't dug out by native inhabitants? here's a good model.
http://www.greatormemines.info/

Thank god i'm an athiest.

Veni, vidi, Vertigo, i came i saw i couldn't get down.
Hetrodoxly.

#7    jaylemurph

jaylemurph

    "If we would know, then we would be more wisdomed."

  • Member
  • 9,553 posts
  • Joined:02 Nov 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle, WA

  • "You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make him think." Dorothy Parker

Posted 12 April 2009 - 11:29 PM

hetrodoxly on Apr 12 2009, 07:21 PM, said:

I can't see why it wasn't dug out by native inhabitants? here's a good model.
http://www.greatormemines.info/


Because the first rule of pseudo-history is that anybody without white skin is virtually unable to do anything, ever and everything you think they did was actually done by lizard people from Doctor Who or aliens.

--Jaylemurph

"... amongst the most obstinate of our opinions may be classed those which derive from discussions in which we affect to search for the truth, while in reality we are only fortifying prejudice."     -- James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder

Posted Image

Deeply venial

#8    Leonardo

Leonardo

    Awake

  • Member
  • 18,410 posts
  • Joined:20 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

  • Hell is a guilty conscience

Posted 13 April 2009 - 06:15 AM

kaiserh on Apr 12 2009, 10:44 AM, said:

I am not sure if this was posted before ,could not find it but I think this is very interesting.I have never heard of this before,located  Northern Peninsula of Michigan.

this is what Paulina Zelitsky said

Quote

the average depth is probably like 20 feet deep for the pit mines, but there were many pit mines that were excavated through solid rock 60 feet down. So, whoever did that obviously had a technology far beyond anything that was known to the native Americans at that time who were not interested in anything more than float copper, copper they picked up off the ground. But this is one of the great - I hate to use the word conspiracy, but it certainly is suppressed evidence that American scholars have known about for more than 100 years that there was a huge copper mining enterprise in upper Michigan that lasted from 3,000 B. C. to 1,200 B. C.


Quote

For some 1800 years, beginning abruptly about 3000 BC, some industrious peoples mined ore equivalent to 500,000 tons of copper from Michigan's Isle Royale and Keweenaw Peninsula. Who were these mysterious miners, and what happened to all all that copper? It certainly hasn't been found in the relics of North American Indians. And where was the ore smelted? About all the unidentified miners left behind are some of the crude tools they used to pound out chunks of ore from their pit mines (5000 pit mines on Isle Royale alone). Outside of some cairns and slabrock ruins, there is little to help pin down these miners. Mainstream archeologists attribute all these immense labors to a North American "Copper Culture" -- certainly not to copper-hungry visitors from foreign shores. Admittedly, many copper artifacts have been dug up from North American mounds, but only a tiny fraction of the metal the Michigan mines must have yielded.



http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf090/sf090a01.htm

I


I've researched this briefly, as it was something I hadn't heard of and found it quite interesting - thanks for posting it, kaiserh.

From what I found, according to the more professional reports of the archaeology, Ms Zelitsky exaggerates somewhat. Most of the pits dug were only a few feet deep, with a few rare exceptions found more than 10 feet deep. Much of the copper was left in situ as the miners had no means of transporting the huge mass copper deposits of many tons, but instead worked small protrusions off the copper lodes by (it appears) heating the small amount of copper and bashing it off with a stone mallet. There is no evidence that 'ore equivalent to 500,000 tons of copper' was removed - in fact there is no evidence that any copper apart from mass copper was removed. No evidence of any smelting furnaces where copper could be extracted from ore and no evidence of any pounding presses where copper grains could be separated from rock (by panning the resultant gravel).

It appears the technology used in the mining effort was entirely neolithic - which would rule out the Phoenicians, Egyptians or any European/Middle Eastern culture being the miners, as all these cultures had attained at least the chalcolithic level of technology in tool and weapon manufacture. According to some early reports (from the 19th Century), the apparent age of trees growing on some of the spoil heaps found would indicate at least some of the mining took place up to maybe 6 -700 years previously - well outside the estimate required for any of the ancient European/Middle Eastern cultures to be involved. Certainly the mining of copper in the region began at a very early date - the official Keneenaw site has it beginning roughly 7000 years ago - but this would not be remarkable for the native inhabitants, especially given the apparent methods used in the mining.

Apart from the unremarkable (if interesting, nonetheless) nature of the activity, I can also see no effort being made to 'hide' this information, it just simply is not as unbelievable (in what seemed to have actually taken place) as the pseudo-historical/conspiracy theorists would have it.


In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#9    kaiserh

kaiserh

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 49 posts
  • Joined:06 Apr 2005

Posted 13 April 2009 - 07:09 AM

Leonardo on Apr 12 2009, 11:15 PM, said:

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf090/sf090a01.htm

I


I've researched this briefly, as it was something I hadn't heard of and found it quite interesting - thanks for posting it, kaiserh.

From what I found, according to the more professional reports of the archaeology, Ms Zelitsky exaggerates somewhat. Most of the pits dug were only a few feet deep, with a few rare exceptions found more than 10 feet deep. Much of the copper was left in situ as the miners had no means of transporting the huge mass copper deposits of many tons, but instead worked small protrusions off the copper lodes by (it appears) heating the small amount of copper and bashing it off with a stone mallet. There is no evidence that 'ore equivalent to 500,000 tons of copper' was removed - in fact there is no evidence that any copper apart from mass copper was removed. No evidence of any smelting furnaces where copper could be extracted from ore and no evidence of any pounding presses where copper grains could be separated from rock (by panning the resultant gravel).

It appears the technology used in the mining effort was entirely neolithic - which would rule out the Phoenicians, Egyptians or any European/Middle Eastern culture being the miners, as all these cultures had attained at least the chalcolithic level of technology in tool and weapon manufacture. According to some early reports (from the 19th Century), the apparent age of trees growing on some of the spoil heaps found would indicate at least some of the mining took place up to maybe 6 -700 years previously - well outside the estimate required for any of the ancient European/Middle Eastern cultures to be involved. Certainly the mining of copper in the region began at a very early date - the official Keneenaw site has it beginning roughly 7000 years ago - but this would not be remarkable for the native inhabitants, especially given the apparent methods used in the mining.

Apart from the unremarkable (if interesting, nonetheless) nature of the activity, I can also see no effort being made to 'hide' this information, it just simply is not as unbelievable (in what seemed to have actually taken place) as the pseudo-historical/conspiracy theorists would have it.


thanks for the nice post ,I found out about this when I was reading a phone interview by Paul Weinzweig, and Paulina Zelitsky about Atlantis found near Cuba.
You've made some excellent points,but I would like to research and know a little more about this.

http://www.tylwythteg.com/articles/cuba.html

Edited by kaiserh, 13 April 2009 - 07:10 AM.


#10    Harte

Harte

    Supremely Educated Knower of Everything in Existence.

  • Member
  • 11,481 posts
  • Joined:06 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Memphis

  • Skeptic

Posted 13 April 2009 - 12:17 PM

kaiserh on Apr 13 2009, 02:09 AM, said:

thanks for the nice post ,I found out about this when I was reading a phone interview by Paul Weinzweig, and Paulina Zelitsky about Atlantis found near Cuba.
You've made some excellent points,but I would like to research and know a little more about this.

Is this true?  Would you really like to learn about this?

If so, read the article here, written by an archaeologist that has worked in Michigan her entire life.

Harte

Posted Image
See the new Harte Mark III
And the Mayan panoramas on my pyramid pajamas haven't helped my little problem. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Anybody like Coleridge?

#11    DieChecker

DieChecker

    I'm a Rogue Scholar

  • Member
  • 23,867 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon, USA

  • Hey, I'm not wrong. I'm just not completely right.

Posted 13 April 2009 - 05:41 PM

Harte on Apr 13 2009, 05:17 AM, said:

Is this true?  Would you really like to learn about this?

If so, read the article here, written by an archaeologist that has worked in Michigan her entire life.

Harte

Thanks for the link. It backs up my idea that none of the "facts" can be verified. The number of pits, the depth of the pits, the number of people involved, the time involved, the amount of copper per pit, the purity of the copper, all are unknowable variables and any number people put to them is basicaly pulled out of the air.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#12    legionromanes

legionromanes

    Psychic Spy

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,453 posts
  • Joined:10 Sep 2008

Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:30 AM

Paulina Zelitsky is not nor has ever been a good source
thumbsup.gif


#13    kaiserh

kaiserh

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 49 posts
  • Joined:06 Apr 2005

Posted 14 April 2009 - 06:32 AM

Harte on Apr 13 2009, 05:17 AM, said:

Is this true?  Would you really like to learn about this?

If so, read the article here, written by an archaeologist that has worked in Michigan her entire life.

Harte


so all depends on what Susan Martin said ,and the case should be closed ? I am not convinced with her myth and fact explanation.she actually says more about "what is not" then "what it is"


#14    kaiserh

kaiserh

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 49 posts
  • Joined:06 Apr 2005

Posted 14 April 2009 - 06:34 AM

legionromanes on Apr 13 2009, 09:30 PM, said:

Paulina Zelitsky is not nor has ever been a good source
thumbsup.gif


know that now.



#15    MARAB0D

MARAB0D

    Forum Divinity

  • Closed
  • 11,055 posts
  • Joined:12 Jul 2008
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 14 April 2009 - 11:57 AM

Theoretically prehistoric copper mines could belong to the native Americans, as some American civilizations knew copper metallurgy for quite a long time. All Indian tribes entered America either via the land bridge with Eurasia, which existed before the "Great Deluge" some 12,000 years ago or later by ice in cold winters or simply by canoes. Then they were migrating down South, so the Indians of North America were probably among those who arrived later, and the warmer climate areas were already occupied. There could be (and probably was) trade between Northern American Indians and Central American states - I mean in later period of 2000-5000 years ago, so these "recent" mines could well belong to some Mayans or similar tribes, who knew the secret of smelting.

Phoenicians in that period are hardly possible, as we would've known about them crossing Atlantic, however the "Atlantean info" by Plato mentions international trade which seems to be predating Great Deluge, as he says that the ships were sailing between the islands of Atlantis and "other islands" to the "opposite continent" on the other side of the ocean, so he knew about Americas - but he says the trade ceased after Atlantis submerged (also makes sense, as the ancient ships could only sail along the coast line).

I am only speaking hypothetically, as I never read anything proving these mines' existence.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users