[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Meiliken on May 2 2009, 02:54 AM, said:

Heh, do you honestly think I said that to them? Not at all. The times when others would spend an entire day working on a problem they couldn't figure out, when earlier I'd told them, exactly what the answer was, they'd blow me off, then later after spending the entire day come to to conclusion that I was right, normally warrants people to believe in you. That didn't happen in the Army. The people who were not higher ranking than me saw this, but the higher ranking people didn't. The only people who believed in me were people lower and of equal rank to me. The higher ranks garnered nothing but disdain. People in power feel threatened when their position is threatened. That's a fact. Never in my time in the military was I ever condescending to people.

Here's another example of where they ended pissed off at me for being right about something. We were counting magazines for M-16's for our pre-deployment to Bosnia. I counted them once, meticulously. I gave my report, and several higher ups gave theirs on their counts. I disagreed with them and said, I counted this many. They said no that's not the number. As you well know, accuracy is of the utmost importance when dealing with weapons and ammo. So I reiterated my count, and said in a very calm manner, "trust me, it's "x" number." They got angry with me threatening counselings and such. I told them, "that still isn't the number though." Bear in mind they recounted 3 more times while this was going on. Admittedly, that many times people will always think they did right. So then I put them into sets in front of them, and counted them pointing to each one as I went through, coming out to what I originally said. After that, they agreed I was right, but told me I should never disagree with them again. Moral here? If they are wrong, agree anyway. Sorry, but that is an ethic I'll never follow. That is irresponsible for anyone that is a leader.

Thanks for the encouragement, but people have failed me so many times that I've lost believing in anyone. I now expect everyone to fail, and they haven't failed in that regard. I don't think I'm better than anyone. But I do wish people would stop letting their ego's run their lives. This is why I'm altruistic. I never ask anyone for anything in return for the help I give. A job is one thing, but what I do outside of it is my own selfless demeanor. Maybe it's the fact I am so selfless that it hinders my advancement. In fact, that may very well be my problem. One I cannot change.

I'm truly sorry for your experiences in the military man. In your situation I would have said something similar. "You asked me to the count the magazines because you trusted I would do it correctly, or you would have asked someone else. I stand by my number sir. If i'm wrong I'll take my punishment." I suppose I was lucky with the unit I was placed in. Plus, being a Glow Worm (NBC) I wasn't exactly stuck with a bunch of..well slow Marines. If we had ideas we were encouraged to speak our minds, although it may have been after the incident. An example would be that my input, along with my crew, played a large part in establishing doctrine and operational procedures for how a crew in our vehicle operated. Granted, my crew was one of several that offered suggestions, but my point is that those procedures were largely created by non NCO's and a warrant officer with balls that believed in us. Don't lose hope in people man. You just have to find the right people. Being selfless is a wonderful virtue man. To be a leader, a true leader, you have to put your people first man. Everything else comes after that. Buy you have to have faith in your people as well. It's not blind faith after all though. As their leader, you've played a large part as to how they conduct themselves under your leadership.
Please don't give up faith in your fellow man! Living like that is gonna prevent you from having some of the greatest experiences in your life. It'll prevent a lot of bad ones too. But they're all part of the same thing. All the ups and downs of our existance are a beautiful thing. You have to experience the lows to experience the highs. It's the only way. Otherwise it's like trying to surf in a swimming pool. There's no waves man. And no fun either.

This post has been edited by Dr. Peter Venkman: 02 May 2009 - 03:55 PM

[odiesbsc]

In order to become a good leader, you must first be a good follower.

Odie

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

odiesbsc on May 5 2009, 04:49 PM, said:

In order to become a good leader, you must first be a good follower.

Odie

We already covered that thanks! Hey man tell us about your experiences man! Tell us about why, or why you're not, tired of being a leader!

[The Cusp]

What sucks about being a leader is you always get pinned with the blame in group activities. When an authority figure wants to make an example out of someone, they pick the leader!

[puridalan]

lol I don't believing in having to be a 'good follower' to be a good leader, though I do believe you need to be cohesive and be able to cope with others very well.

[Meiliken]

The Cusp on May 5 2009, 10:50 PM, said:

What sucks about being a leader is you always get pinned with the blame in group activities. When an authority figure wants to make an example out of someone, they pick the leader!

From my experience, usually the leader delegates the blame downward away from themselves. If something good happens, the credit goes to the leader, if something bad happens, it becomes the blame of the people following them. Current leadership as it stands is BS because they act as if they can do no wrong. That's a bad leader. Hitler seems to come to mind. the only time the leader gets the blame is if someone above the leader(i.e. the leader over the leader(still a follower)), blames the leader. Blame in this day and age never ever falls on the leader. The leader will always put the blame on someone else. Good leaders do not. They accept blame on themselves because a good leader has humility.

[spiritA]

Voyager, on 17 April 2009 - 08:06 AM, said:

I don't know if anyone may understand this, but for people who have always felt like they had the character/personality of a leader, or were more mature (or sensitive) than the mass, do you ever feel like you would rather not know all that you know or have the responsibility that you have been given.

I wouldn't call myself mature, nor do I have "personality" of a leader.

I think what you're trying to say is there are things you are aware, which others do not. The interactions between people, the gossiper, the ones who don't do work and make all types of excuses. I feel most burden when I had to keep my integrity by not gossiping about it. Meanwhile, others will use this method to attack you.

All I know is that I do a lot for people 'below' me, but I get the blame when I take on more responsibilities due to protecting their confidence. Someone here mentioned about how authority makes an example of the leader, and I also agree with that, not to mention the time and effort that I spent helping just turns into them blaming me when things don't go right.

[Helen of Annoy]

spiritA, on 07 November 2009 - 03:44 AM, said:

I wouldn't call myself mature, nor do I have "personality" of a leader.

I think what you're trying to say is there are things you are aware, which others do not. The interactions between people, the gossiper, the ones who don't do work and make all types of excuses. I feel most burden when I had to keep my integrity by not gossiping about it. Meanwhile, others will use this method to attack you.

All I know is that I do a lot for people 'below' me, but I get the blame when I take on more responsibilities due to protecting their confidence. Someone here mentioned about how authority makes an example of the leader, and I also agree with that, not to mention the time and effort that I spent helping just turns into them blaming me when things don't go right.

But you have to gossip. Seriously. It’s accepted way of social interaction in every human society. We might pretend to be shocked or disgusted by gossiping, but the line between gossip and ‘decent’ information exchange is impossible to determine.
You have to ‘bind’ with people around you, otherwise you’ll forever be the one to blame, not because you are really guilty, but because people will always tend to blame the ‘outsider’.

After all, aren't the forums a form of gossip?

[=Jak=]

Topic is on "Tired of being leader" not "gossip".... when your follower won't make stories out of leader or gossip... may be leader got tired of his image.. but all real leader wants their follower to follow their footstep and not to make story or image of their, for future praise... leader are commited to their duties or the unknown commitment.. the fire, the energy to pull up their followers..

[Helen of Annoy]

=Jak=, on 07 November 2009 - 07:46 PM, said:

Topic is on "Tired of being leader" not "gossip".... when your follower won't make stories out of leader or gossip... may be leader got tired of his image.. but all real leader wants their follower to follow their footstep and not to make story or image of their, for future praise... leader are commited to their duties or the unknown commitment.. the fire, the energy to pull up their followers..

Yeah, I know, but you are crappy leader if you can’t handle gossiping and, equally important, make gossip flow in direction you want. So it's relevant.

I think true leaders don’t want followers, they simply set example and organize things.

[odiesbsc]

Dr. Peter Venkman, on 05 May 2009 - 10:34 PM, said:

<!--quoteo(post=2874044:date=May 5 2009, 04:49 PM:name=odiesbsc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (odiesbsc @ May 5 2009, 04:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2874044"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In order to become a good leader, you must first be a good follower.

Odie<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

We already covered that thanks! <img src="http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="thumbsup.gif" /> Hey man tell us about your experiences man! Tell us about why, or why you're not, tired of being a leader!

Dr. Peter Venkman, Sorry for the late response, I was just notified today that someone else had posted on this thread.

I was in the military for what seems like a lifetime. The first four years was basicly learning. After that I started gaining rank. (E-5) Then I was getting promoted at almost the minimum time in grade, all the way to E-8. I had several offers to go on to Warrant officer but for some reason or another I didn't take them up on it. I got out in 1977 and started my own business which went on for several years. Then in February of 2000, I was hit head on by a drunk driver and spent almost one year in hospitals and rest homes. I was quite crippled up and had to sell my business. After that, My wife and I bought a Restaurant / Bar / Casino, which takes us to this date. Now, I'm more than ready to sell this place and spend the rest of my days fishing, hunting, and piddeling around in my shop on projects that are long overdue.

So you can see that most of my adult life has been in a leadership role and now I'm ready to step down and take life easy.

Odie

[Finity]

I'm kinda the other way round. People told me all my life that I'm a natural leader, but I just never want to step up to it. Also I'm far to much a revolutionary, I hate "the system" and the silly games the corporate types play. It doesn't go down well when I rally half of their own workplace against them

But the world is full of bad leaders, people who pass blame, twist things in their favor, take credit for other people's work, and abuse their position. Just look at politicians

This post has been edited by Finity: 09 November 2009 - 10:52 PM

[G3N0M3]

Though I don't believe that I'm the best leader, nor do I think that I am "made" to be a leader, I do however believe that people are drawn to me for help, guidance, and many other things that will help that individual personaly.

Because I've learned, and developed many abilities, and also I "just had" many also I feel inclined to help others, even though I rather lead than be lead, I would not lead, but push. So even though I don't know everything I will help others and lead others the ways I know how.

Personal skills are interpersonal dependance where others will look for my help (because of my "track record") and feel comfortable being helped by me. Even at a young age I took the initiative to "lead" in a cirtain way by being a student-student counsolor. Also people are drawn to me for guidance so I gues I am a "born leader" though I use different techniques.

Though to answer your question "do you ever feel like you would rather not know all that you know or have the responsibility that you have been given." No, not at all, I take my talents, skills, abilities all too seriously to forgo.