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Egyptians in the Grand Canyon


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#1    icet925

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 06:16 AM

I heard recently on tv that egytians tomb were found in the grand canyon in 1909.  Was this real or was this a hoax?
If you believe that this is truth, the how do you think it got there.
Let's discuss this topic without any flaming.


#2    Mr Black

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 07:53 AM

"Well, the first thing I can tell you, before we go any further," she said, "is that no Egyptian artefacts of any kind have ever been found in North or South America. Therefore, I can tell you that the Smithsonian Institute has never been involved in any such excavations."


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#3    DieChecker

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 06:25 PM

I think the story was just a Inquirer style Treasure Hoard story made up by a newspaper. There are numerous caves in the grand canyon, many from underground rivers, but no human made tunnels that I know of. I've heard the same story, but with Inca, Aztec, Atlantean, Chinese or Templar treasures used instead of Egyptian. If there ever were some treasures there, they were taken a long, long time ago.

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#4    Farmer77

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 06:27 PM

I saw a somewhat convincing show on Egyptian (ish) tombs/ruins being found in central America , Costa Rica if I remember correctly.

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#5    louie

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 06:39 PM

i dont believe the smithsonen is hiding anything, although id like to hear the offical reason that area in the grand canyon is restricted though.
also there are many threads here on um about this, try search.

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#6    OldTimeRadio

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 10:33 PM

Nobody would like to see Egyptian ruins in the Grand Canyon more that I would, but let's not forget that the          entirety of the evidence for their existence is one or possibly two newspaper articles from the opening years of the 20th Century, a time when papers hoaxed such articles on an almost-daily basis.


#7    OldTimeRadio

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 11:05 PM

louie on May 20 2009, 06:39 PM, said:

....id like to hear the offical reason that area in the grand canyon is restricted though.


     Let me suggest two possible reasons:

     1. The Park Service is required to keep a few areas entirely pristine;

     2. There are only a limited number of areas which Rescue Services can reach quickly and effectively, and in which its workers receive regular training



#8    kmt_sesh

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 05:55 PM

icet925 on May 20 2009, 01:16 AM, said:

I heard recently on tv that egytians tomb were found in the grand canyon in 1909.  Was this real or was this a hoax?
If you believe that this is truth, the how do you think it got there.
Let's discuss this topic without any flaming.


I can assure you with unwavering confidence that this is not true. Despite what alternative theorists have tried to argue in the past at UM, there is not the slightest evidence of any kind that Egyptians ever reached the Western Hemisphere. I can assure you of that. But what's my word, eh? You can research it for yourself--in legitimate literature written by experts, of course. There is not one iota of evidence existing in any ancient Egyptian record or artifact that even suggests their knowledge of the Western Hemisphere. Rather, we have a solid understanding of the extent to the world the Egyptians did know, and it certainly did not include any lands across the ocean.

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#9    Bosanchero

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 11:54 PM

(Bosanchero walks up from the pits of hell) = havent been on UM in like 2 years lol


First of all i DO NOT support the idea of pyramids in grand canyon lol
reason i had to comment is following
sesh you should look into "Cocaine Mummies" German toxicologist  Dr. Svetla Balabanova discovered them within the the mummy of a female priestess called Henut Taui!  good subject to research original.gif

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View Postwhen.i.am.queen., on Jan 10 2007, 06:57 AM, said:

Here is a crazy thought

... perhaps.....not?

#10    OldTimeRadio

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 12:21 AM

kmt_sesh on May 21 2009, 06:55 PM, said:

....there is not the slightest evidence of any kind that Egyptians ever reached the Western Hemisphere....There is not one iota of evidence existing in any ancient Egyptian record or artifact that even suggests their knowledge of the Western Hemisphere.


    It's been suggested, I'd assumed by reliable individuals, that when the Egyptian fleet sent out by Erostratenes to document the curvature of the globe sailed eastwards until it reached the supposedly-impassable "wall of the world" this "wall" was most likely the Andes Mountains. I'm not sticking a dog in this particular donnybrook, merely asking your opinion on the possibility of this hypotheses having any truth to it.



#11    MirrorImage

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 01:37 AM

louie on May 20 2009, 12:39 PM, said:

i dont believe the smithsonen is hiding anything, although id like to hear the offical reason that area in the grand canyon is restricted though.
also there are many threads here on um about this, try search.

Might be an area prone to flash flooding, that occurs fairly often down there, despite the desert surroundings.
Ive yet to find a solid link to proof of the off-limits area, anyone got a link to a fairly reputable source?

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#12    kmt_sesh

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 01:43 AM

Bosanchero on May 21 2009, 06:54 PM, said:

(Bosanchero walks up from the pits of hell) = havent been on UM in like 2 years lol


First of all i DO NOT support the idea of pyramids in grand canyon lol
reason i had to comment is following
sesh you should look into "Cocaine Mummies" German toxicologist  Dr. Svetla Balabanova discovered them within the the mummy of a female priestess called Henut Taui!  good subject to research original.gif


I've read several reports both in favor of and arguing against the "cocaine mummies," and frankly, when viewed scientifically, it's most unlikely to have been contemporary to when these mummified people had been alive. The amounts are at most trace, and a much more realistic explanation is contamination. These mummies (there's more than one that was tested) had been handled by any number of Europeans, and cocaine had long been a popular drug in Europe.

The more I looked into it the less I was impressed, so I rarely read any more about it nowadays.

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#13    kmt_sesh

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 02:08 AM

OldTimeRadio on May 21 2009, 07:21 PM, said:

It's been suggested, I'd assumed by reliable individuals, that when the Egyptian fleet sent out by Erostratenes to document the curvature of the globe sailed eastwards until it reached the supposedly-impassable "wall of the world" this "wall" was most likely the Andes Mountains. I'm not sticking a dog in this particular donnybrook, merely asking your opinion on the possibility of this hypotheses having any truth to it.


I'm not familiar with the tale of Erostratenes. I just tried looking into it on the internet and found nothing. There was no king of Egypt named Erostratenes--native Egyptian, Macedonian, Greek, or otherwise--so I don't know what to make of it. But to be honest I'm not terribly impressed by most Classical or Hellenistic accounts. I mean, they're fun to read, but as works of history they're shot through with ragged holes.

Herodotus is a good example. His work, The Histories, is one of the finest of the Classical period and very pleasurable to read, but I would never use it as a primary reference when studying Egypt. Never. For example, there is his account of Nectanebo II sending out a fleet to sail around Africa, to try to find another route into the Mediterranean. Outside Herodotus I've never seen this tale documented, but perhaps it is. Yet, even Herodotus doubted its veracity. One interesting thing he writes in Book 4 is that Nectanebo contracted with the Phoenicians to send their fleet to do the job. The Egyptian vessels were not equipped for any such voyage. This much is undeniably true, which leads me to my final point.

Given the obvious lack of veracity in Classical and Hellenistic accounts, one must turn to archaeology, philology, and the material record. We have a very full understanding of Egyptian maritime technology and capabilities, and there is nothing to suggest they were ever equipped for a transatlantic voyage. The Egyptians were principally riverine sailors. In fact, they studiously avoided sailing in the open seas. When venturing beyond the Nile, such as to go to Byblos in ancient Syro-Palestine or to Punt on the coast of the Red Sea, they sailed always near the coastline. Based on the archaeological record of Egyptian maritime technology, containing everything from models of boats to actual boats to the equipment that was used on them, it's clear the types of vessels they built were not meant for open-sea voyages.

I also stress the philological and linguistic record. The Egyptians left behind a rich lexicon of place names to describe the places they conquered and visited, and though we cannot identify them all, there is nothing in their own record to indicate any kind of voyage across the seas to unknown lands. Given their cosmology and world view, they would've avoided it in the first place. There isn't even anything to suggest that, as a state function, they even ventured into the western Mediterranean.

We have to go strictly by what archaeology, philology, and the material culture reveal to us. Until such time that new information might surface, we are tightly bound by those limits. And those limits clearly express no knowledge of the world beyond the western Mediterranean.

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#14    OldTimeRadio

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 12:12 AM


     Forgive my atrocious spelling error, I was actually referring to the Greek mathematician Eratosthenes, who carried out many experiments in Ptolemaic Egypt.


#15    kmt_sesh

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 02:53 AM

OldTimeRadio on May 22 2009, 07:12 PM, said:

Forgive my atrocious spelling error, I was actually referring to the Greek mathematician Eratosthenes, who carried out many experiments in Ptolemaic Egypt.


laugh.gif I'm just as guilty. You're spelling error really wasn't that bad. I should've recognized the name anyway, as one of the librarians of the Library of Alexandria. Still, I'm only vaguely familiar with him, and less so familiar with his work pertaining to the circumference of the globe. I'm not familiar with the account of Eratosthenes' dispatching an Egyptian fleet, to be honest. I did find this excerpt on a web page:

Quote

The third librarian of Alexandria, Eratosthenes (275-194 B.C.E), calculated the circumference of the earth to within 1%, based on the measured distance from Aswan to Alexandria and the fraction of the whole arc determined by differing shadow-lengths at noon in those two locations. He further suggested that the seas were connected, that Africa might be circumnavigated, and that "India could be reached by sailing westward from Spain." Finally, probably drawing on Egyptian and Near Eastern observations, he deduced the length of the year to 365 1/4 days and first suggested the idea of adding a "leap day" every four years.


Interesting fellow, to be sure. However, because I'm not familiar with the account pertaining to the Egyptian fleet, I don't think I'm equipped to comment on it.

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