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Where did love come from?


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#1    coberst

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 11:35 AM

Where did love come from?

Plato judged that the basis of love is centered upon the mutual struggle for truth.  I claim that the emotion of love in humans is evolved from the mother infant relationship in early mammals.

Occasionally when reading I run across a phrase or sentence or paragraph, which really rings a bell for me. The bell may be recognition of the compatibility of the point to my own conclusions or perhaps the point caused an epiphany, or other reasons. When I encounter such a point I often copy it and store it in a file for later analysis. One such point is as follows: “Platonic idea that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love”.

My analysis of this sentence led me down a long trail over an extended period of time to an understanding of the meaning of the statement and to an agreement with the meaning of that statement.

When studying philosophy I had read some of Plato’s work and had a slight remembrance of one of his Dialogues in which he dealt with the subject of love. After some study of the particular Dialogue in question and some further study of Plato’s general philosophy I realized what was meant by the point made in the sentence I had saved.

Quickie from Wiki: “Plato constructed the Symposium as a story within a story within a story. This architecture creates the space for Plato to build his philosophy of knowledge. The speech of Socrates points out that the highest purpose of Love is to become a Philosopher, or Lover of Wisdom.”

I often watch the Discovery Channel on TV. As you probably know this channel often has a great documentary on animal life. Their audio/visual presentations give the viewer wonderful insights into the life of animals. Often the animals in question are large mammals such as lions, gorillas, monkeys, etc.

Plato wrote, “An unexamined life is not worth living”. I find this a bit hyperbolic but nevertheless agree with the general point. Socrates also argued that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love. Plato/Socrates judged that the basis of love is centered upon the mutual struggle for truth.

I would not attempt to explain why Plato’s Idealistic philosophy leads to this conclusion but I think one can find justification for this point of view by considering the nature of the parent to progeny relationship. Considering the nature of evolution one might easily discover that the origin of love could be observed in the obvious relationship of present day mammals. The educational relationship between the animal mother and their progeny are evident to the most casual observer.

Evolutionary Psychology is based on the theory that all human psychological traits, such as love, must be traceable to our evolutionary ancestors. The source of love in humans is evolved from the mother infant relationship in early mammals (perhaps).

What do you judge to be the primordial animal source (assuming an acceptance of the validity of Darwin’s theory of natural selection) for the emotion of love in humans?



#2    Mattshark

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 12:52 PM

Oxytocin

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#3    DarkNova@

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 01:53 PM

CareBears !
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I am the one who dwelt within CAIN!
I am the one who dwelt within NERO!
I once dwelt within JUDAS!
I was with Legion.
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#4    Moon Minion

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 02:05 PM

Mattshark on May 20 2009, 12:52 PM, said:

Oxytocin


And Moon Minion proceeded to look that word up in a dictionary...

But couldn't find it...

She hoped no one would laugh at her expense. blush.gif




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#5    Moon Minion

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 02:35 PM

Oh never mind, I'm slow tonight, found it. For some reason I confused it with Oxycontin.... huh.gif *sighs*

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#6    Mattshark

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 02:57 PM

Moon Minion on May 20 2009, 03:35 PM, said:

Oh never mind, I'm slow tonight, found it. For some reason I confused it with Oxycontin.... huh.gif *sighs*

laugh.gif

It is a hormone released in both maternal situations and in romantic ones. In many animals the lack of this hormone results in no parental behaviour at all.

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#7    WoIverine

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 03:02 PM

Where did love come from? From someone who obviously hates men lol.


#8    Moon Minion

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 03:03 PM

Mattshark on May 20 2009, 03:57 PM, said:

laugh.gif

It is a hormone released in both maternal situations and in romantic ones. In many animals the lack of this hormone results in no parental behaviour at all.


Yes, I Googled it when my poorly listed dictionary failed me lol laugh.gif

thanks mate

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#9    Alchera

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 09:10 PM

I think I have come to the conclusion that love is pureley a survival instinct that helps us, and I'm certain; may sometimes hinder us. This doesn't make it any less meaningful though.

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#10    greggK

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 11:36 PM

Quote

Plato wrote, “An unexamined life is not worth living”. I find this a bit hyperbolic but nevertheless agree with the general point. Socrates also argued that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love. Plato/Socrates judged that the basis of love is centered upon the mutual struggle for truth.


I had to stop there and let something catch up.  I don't know, maybe I was laggin' behind.  But is another name for Socrates Plato.  I thought they were two different people.   grin2.gif

Quote

Quickie from Wiki: “Plato constructed the Symposium as a story within a story within a story. This architecture creates the space for Plato to build his philosophy of knowledge. The speech of Socrates points out that the highest purpose of Love is to become a Philosopher, or Lover of Wisdom.”


I could do better than that!

It is me!

#11    Virtual Particle

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 02:59 AM

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Quote

Courtship
When two parties discover a mutual interest at the beginning of breeding season, they court for several days, even while others try to interfere. During this time they have been known to change color, swim side by side holding tails or grip the same strand of sea grass with their tails and wheel around in unison in what is known as their “pre-dawn dance”. They eventually engage in their “true courtship dance” lasting about 8 hours, during which the male pumps water through the egg pouch on his trunk which expands and cleaves open to display an appealing emptiness. When the female’s eggs reach maturity, she and her mate let go of any anchors and snout-to-snout, drift upward out of the seagrass, often spiraling as they rise. The female inserts her ovipositor into the male’s brood pouch, where she deposits her eggs, which the male fertilizes. The fertilized eggs then embed in the pouch wall and become enveloped with tissue.[4] New research indicates the male releases sperm into the surrounding sea water during fertilization, and not directly into the pouch as was previously thought.

[5] Most seahorse species' pregnancies last two to four weeks.

As the female squirts anywhere from dozens to thousands of eggs from a chamber in her trunk into the male pouch, her body slims while his swells. Both seahorses then sink back to the bottom and she swims away. Scientists believe the courtship behaviour serves to synchronize the movements of the two animals so that the male can receive the eggs when the female is ready to deposit them. The eggs are then fertilized in the father’s pouch which is coursed with prolactin, the same hormone responsible for milk production in pregnant women. He doesn’t supply milk, but his pouch provides oxygen as well as a controlled environment incubator. The eggs then hatch in the pouch where the salinity of the water is regulated; this prepares the newborns for life in the sea.[6][7] Throughout the male’s incubation, his mate visits him daily for “morning greetings”. The female seahorse swims over for about 6 minutes of interaction reminiscent of courtship. They change color, wheel around sea grass fronds, and finally promenade, holding each other’s tails. Then, the female swims away until the next morning, and the male goes back to vacuuming up food through his snout. [6]


Birth
The number of young released by the male seahorse averages 100-200 for most species, but may be a low as 5 for the smaller species, or as high as 1500, with pregnancy lasting from two to four weeks, depending on the species[8] When the fry are ready to be born, the male undergoes muscular contractions to expel them from his pouch. He typically gives birth at night and is ready for the next batch of eggs by morning when his mate returns. Like almost all other fish species, seahorses do not care for their young once they are born. Infants are susceptible to death from predators or being swept into ocean currents, where they drift away from rich feeding grounds or into temperatures too extreme for their delicate bodies. Fewer than five infants of every 1,000 born survive to adulthood, helping to explain why litters are so large. The survival rates of these infants are actually fairly high compared to fish standards, because they are initially sheltered in their father’s pouch during the earliest stages of development, while the eggs of most other fish are abandoned immediately after fertilization. [7] This makes the process worth the great cost to the father of incubating his offspring.



Rest of article


As far as I remember Seahorses are one of the few animals that seem to maintain one relationship with one member of the opposite sex. It is no so much that I am trying to present that these small animals understand what love is to a human but it does in fact seem something to aspire to in a relationship.

Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad, 21 May 2009 - 03:01 AM.

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#12    coberst

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 10:08 AM

I suspect that like all of natural selection that the better the bond between the nurturing mother and the infant the more likely the survival of the infant and thus those mutations that helped this bonding became part of the gene pool.


#13    greggK

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 12:54 PM

Oh, so Plato and Socrates bonded, ahhh.
Well, if you believe in the bible, this world has never known love.  It is written in your DNA, women, that your desire will be for your husband.  And your husband caused the ground to be cursed and the thorns and thistles to grow and you caused pain in childbirth.  What is to love about that?

It is me!

#14    Virtual Particle

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 06:29 PM

greggK on May 21 2009, 08:54 AM, said:

Oh, so Plato and Socrates bonded, ahhh.
Well, if you believe in the bible, this world has never known love.  It is written in your DNA, women, that your desire will be for your husband.  And your husband caused the ground to be cursed and the thorns and thistles to grow and you caused pain in childbirth.  What is to love about that?



For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son.

Any thoughts?


Time is a form of communication
Consciousness transcends all states
that can be perceived as matter
Matter communicates its existence
to consciousness through time        
Man is infinite
God is more
Black Hole Creates Spectacular Light Show

#15    Moon Minion

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 06:42 PM

greggK on May 21 2009, 12:54 PM, said:

Oh, so Plato and Socrates bonded, ahhh.
Well, if you believe in the bible, this world has never known love.  It is written in your DNA, women, that your desire will be for your husband.  And your husband caused the ground to be cursed and the thorns and thistles to grow and you caused pain in childbirth.  What is to love about that?


That was part of their punishment for eating the fruit of the forbidden tree.


Triad on May 21 2009, 06:29 PM, said:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son.

Any thoughts?


1 John 4:8- mentions - God is love.

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