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Where did love come from?


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#16    Harte

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 08:11 PM

coberst on May 20 2009, 06:35 AM, said:

Where did love come from?

What do you judge to be the primordial animal source (assuming an acceptance of the validity of Darwin’s theory of natural selection) for the emotion of love in humans?

Depends on what kind of love.

Certainly the love for offspring arises the way Matt describes.  However, the single pair bonding behavior of a husband a wife (assuming they do so bond) is another thing altogether.

But, both are based on survival of the genetic heritage of the DNA carried by parents.

On the other hand, a male being pair-bonded can be argued to be anti-survival from the point of view of his DNA.
A quandary, really.

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#17    Mattshark

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 10:39 PM

Harte on May 21 2009, 09:11 PM, said:

Depends on what kind of love.

Certainly the love for offspring arises the way Matt describes.  However, the single pair bonding behavior of a husband a wife (assuming they do so bond) is another thing altogether.

But, both are based on survival of the genetic heritage of the DNA carried by parents.

On the other hand, a male being pair-bonded can be argued to be anti-survival from the point of view of his DNA.
A quandary, really.

Harte

Oxytocin has been linked to romantic relationships too, though obviously the evolutionary background to this will differ than with parental care.
Oxytocin and romance anxiety.
Female beahaviour and oxytocin.
The hormonal changes of falling in love.

Extra pair bonding can work both ways though, in birds extra pair bonding is seen in females commonly as she may distinguish between the best genes and the best parent, so obviously the male doesn't want that either.

Edited by Mattshark, 21 May 2009 - 10:41 PM.

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#18    Virtual Particle

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 10:13 PM

Mattshark Love came from God. I actually provided Therapy (unofficially of course) to an individual who had been through the Prudence Calabreese version of Remote Viewing as well am completely  aware of "Far point" with respect to Technical Remote Viewing.

Let me be clear you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad, 03 June 2009 - 10:21 PM.

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#19    Mattshark

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 10:22 PM

Triad on Jun 3 2009, 11:13 PM, said:

Mattshark Love came from God. I actually provided Therapy (unofficially of course) to an individual who had been through the Prudence Calabreese version of Remote Viewing as well am I aware of "Far point" with respect to Technical Remote Viewing.

Let me be clear you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Any thoughts?


Oh feel free to prove that wink2.gif.

Then feel free to say why it is nothing to do with oxytocin.

Then feel free to provide evidence of remote viewing.

Then feel free to show that there is a deity.

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#20    Virtual Particle

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 10:24 PM

No probem all you HAVE to do is access my personal report.


Any thoughts

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#21    Mattshark

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 10:31 PM

Triad on Jun 3 2009, 11:24 PM, said:

No probem all you HAVE to do is access my personal report.


Any thoughts

I would actually like science please.
I asked for evidence. I have posted papers that show a link between oxytocin and both romantic and parental love. So please tell me why those papers are wrong and your religious belief is right.
Is there evidence of a deity? No.
Is there evidence of remote viewing? No.
Is it pseudo-scientific to answer: God did it? Yes.

no.gif
"God did it" is the worst of all cop outs, it is not bothering to actually answer the question, it is replacing unknown with unknown and that is worse again if you ignore what we do know.

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#22    eight bits

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 06:43 PM

I have removed a number of posts which appear to be about recruiting a member of the forum into a study of remote viewing. That is contrary to the terms and conditions of the forum:

1b. Recruitment: Do not recruit site visitors in to joining other web sites, forums or groups, request participation in surveys, petitions, contests, protests, political campaigns, fund raisers or
money making schemes.

The subject of this thread is Where did love come from? Please discuss that here.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Edited by eight bits, 04 June 2009 - 06:44 PM.
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#23    Virtual Particle

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 10:47 PM

That would be me eight-bits  innocent.gif It was all a jest not really meant as anything in reality.

Triad

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#24    greggK

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 01:36 PM

Triad on May 21 2009, 01:29 PM, said:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son.

Any thoughts?


That whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.  We are all members of one body, if one member is hurt, we all are affected.

I guess love is created by the mixture of several amino acids and enzymes produced in the Hypothalamus gland?

Edited by greggK, 05 June 2009 - 01:41 PM.

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#25    Guest_Bertrand_*

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 07:17 PM

From the evolutionary standpoint, the development of social interaction necessarily follows the frail, non-predatorial mammals like humans.  The herd protects offspring from lesser threats, though herds usually haul tail and rarely act as a whole to defend a single offspring.  Add to that the fact that humans are developmentally lagging at birth compared to other animals.  The theory is that due to our cerebral size at birth, which allows us to pass through the female pelvis, versus cerebral growth and developemnt through maturation, our brains are under-developed.  In other animals, usually within a couple of hours of birth-- if not sooner-- the animal is at least able to move freely and expel waste properly and so on.  The human infant is incapable of most actions.  So, the human female must be more protective and attentive to the brat until it can develop enough to survive.

Most probably, the increase in brain mass coincided with the development of hormonal triggers (including oxytocin, prolactin, etc.) that created a bonding effect between female and offspring.  Again, due to human frailty, we remained a social animal with greater strength in numbers, and likely individual pairing.  Ergo, there existed numerous social and environmental pressures favoring this bonding over the generations.  We call it "love" because of those darn sonnets.

The question I find interesting is why human females are not seasonal... what are the benefits (especially in this Malthusian age) and how did that develop?


#26    Virtual Particle

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 01:55 AM

Bertrand on Jun 11 2009, 03:17 PM, said:

From the evolutionary standpoint, the development of social interaction necessarily follows the frail, non-predatorial mammals like humans.  The herd protects offspring from lesser threats, though herds usually haul tail and rarely act as a whole to defend a single offspring.  Add to that the fact that humans are developmentally lagging at birth compared to other animals.  The theory is that due to our cerebral size at birth, which allows us to pass through the female pelvis, versus cerebral growth and developemnt through maturation, our brains are under-developed.  In other animals, usually within a couple of hours of birth-- if not sooner-- the animal is at least able to move freely and expel waste properly and so on.  The human infant is incapable of most actions.  So, the human female must be more protective and attentive to the brat until it can develop enough to survive.

Most probably, the increase in brain mass coincided with the development of hormonal triggers (including oxytocin, prolactin, etc.) that created a bonding effect between female and offspring.  Again, due to human frailty, we remained a social animal with greater strength in numbers, and likely individual pairing.  Ergo, there existed numerous social and environmental pressures favoring this bonding over the generations.  We call it "love" because of those darn sonnets.

The question I find interesting is why human females are not seasonal... what are the benefits (especially in this Malthusian age) and how did that develop?


You suppose that humans are non-predatory what exactly is the basis for such a conclusion??

Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad, 12 June 2009 - 01:56 AM.

Time is a form of communication
Consciousness transcends all states
that can be perceived as matter
Matter communicates its existence
to consciousness through time        
Man is infinite
God is more
Black Hole Creates Spectacular Light Show

#27    Mr Walker

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 03:21 PM

Love is conceived in evolutionary biology and gestated via sapience. It is a condition and a construct that exists(in many forms) only because of the nature, level, and sophistication, of human sapience. Even its name is a human construct as are the many symbolic attachments we create and attach to the name.

Thus, while a non sapient animal may be "compelled" by evolved biological imperatives to "love" its offspring, and humans may be conditioned to find the proportions of a baby's eyes attractive, human type love can only exist as a self aware sapient choice.

Humans can choose to love (and to hate) Our actions become impelled by our conscious realisations of these abstract symbols. Thus love and hate drive our responses on many levels, even though we are physically quite capable of; creating,  modifying, and adapting them, through various elements of our intelligence.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#28    555soul

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 07:23 PM

www.theoriginofemotions.com

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