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Was Hitler Autistic?


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#1    Supergladiator

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 01:04 AM

Professor Michael Fitzgerald found that Hitler, among others, was autistic. Can you agree with that? What is your position and experiences with ADULTS suffering from high functioning autistic or Aspergers syndrome, are you able to recognize them as such?  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler&..._medical_health (pag.25)

http://books.google.nl/books?id=3zXaZqtt1R...lt&resnum=1



Corrected a peculiarity of English expression: Professor Fitzgerald found that Hitler displayed autistic psychopathy. Thus, we say that in Professor Fitzgerald's opinion, Hitler was autistic. Please do not ever use the word psychopath unless you are certain that you are using it correctly, and that your meaning will be readily understood by all who read your writing.

Edited by eight bits, 27 May 2009 - 02:58 AM.


#2    GreytMuse

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 01:55 AM

Rony on May 26 2009, 08:04 PM, said:

Professor Michael Fitzgerald found that Hitler, among others, was an Autistic psychopath. Can you agree with that? What is your position and experiences with ADULTS suffering from high functioning autistic or Aspergers syndrome, are you able to recognize them as such?  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler&..._medical_health (pag.25)

http://books.google.nl/books?id=3zXaZqtt1R...lt&resnum=1


I'll have a go... original.gif

A quote from your Wiki link:  Fitzgerald has claimed that many famous people in history had Asperger's, so some doubt the validity of his (posthumous) diagnoses.  When all you have is a hammer, everything  looks like a nail.  When you're an autism expert, it's highly likely you'll label people as such.  All of it is pure speculation when you haven't even met the person you are "diagnosing".

The link to the book "Is There a Link Between Autism and Creativity?" -- again all speculation on dead people.

Do I know an adult with autism?  Yes -- he has Asperger's and he is an extremely famous eye surgeon.  
I also know teens and children with autism, across the spectrum.  What is the point of your OP?

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#3    HerNibs

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 01:58 AM

removed quote and discussion of some removed matter


Now, my question -

When you bring up autism, lucifer and hitler, how are you linking them together?

HN

Edited by eight bits, 27 May 2009 - 02:24 AM.
to remove quote

Just because it is a mystery to YOU doesn't make it unexplained.

STORM - a must watch - caution, some profanity and may cause you to experience reason.

#4    Supergladiator

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 02:05 AM

GreytMuse on May 27 2009, 03:55 AM, said:

I'll have a go... original.gif

A quote from your Wiki link:  Fitzgerald has claimed that many famous people in history had Asperger's, so some doubt the validity of his (posthumous) diagnoses.  When all you have is a hammer, everything  looks like a nail.  When you're an autism expert, it's highly likely you'll label people as such.  All of it is pure speculation when you haven't even met the person you are "diagnosing".

The link to the book "Is There a Link Between Autism and Creativity?" -- again all speculation on dead people.

Do I know an adult with autism?  Yes -- he has Asperger's and he is an extremely famous eye surgeon.  
I also know teens and children with autism, across the spectrum.  What is the point of your OP?


I’m interesting in find out how everybody experience that. And if they are easy to be recognized, but, mostly I’m interested on the ones on a combination of Autism and psychopathy.




#5    eight bits

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 02:19 AM

I have set aside several posts for bickering.

There has been some reasonable discussion. That has been left on the board.

It is unhelpful to remind the OP about remarks he has made in another thread. If, as, and when he makes any remark that is contrary to site policy in this thread, then you all know where the report button is.

The moderating team is aware of the situation, and if this thread goes the way of the other one, then it will be closed.

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#6    GreytMuse

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 02:33 AM

There is actually a fair bit of research on the topic - one study:

------------------------------
http://eprints.ucl.ac.uk/11879/
Rogers, J. and Viding, E. and Blair, R.J. and Frith, U. and Happé, F. (2006)
Psychological Medicine

Autism spectrum disorder and psychopathy: shared cognitive underpinnings or double hit?

Background. We measured psychopathic traits in boys with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) selected for difficult and aggressive behaviour. We asked (i) whether psychopathic tendencies can be measured in ASD independent of the severity of autistic behaviour; (ii) whether individuals with ASD with callous–unemotional (CU) traits differ in their cognitive profile from those without such traits; and (iii) how the cognitive data from this study compare with previous data of youngsters with psychopathic tendencies. Method. Twenty-eight ASD boys were rated on psychopathic tendencies, autistic traits and a range of cognitive measures assessing mentalizing ability, executive functions, emotion recognition and ability to make moral–conventional distinction.

Our results indicate that psychopathic tendencies are not related to severity of ASD. In addition, such tendencies do not seem to be related to core autistic cognitive deficits...

-----------------------------
I'd encourage you to go off-board and read some of the scientific articles that deal with this issue. original.gif

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#7    Supergladiator

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 02:54 AM

The FBI has probably lots of information about cases of individuals on this field, the question is, if those subjects can’t do anything about theirs doings, how can the society deal with it, and what is the origin of it, so we can find a preventive  method. From that point will all crimes committed by such persons not be imputed, but then it will be like excusing a tiger for attacking its prey.
I wonder how deep can I get on this subject, as it concerns a very fine tune subject. But if to talk about autistic psychopathy becomes a taboo then we will never find a way out of it. Maybe is a good idea starting by Hitler.    




#8    Dr. Peter Venkman

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 03:04 AM

Rony on May 26 2009, 09:54 PM, said:

The FBI has probably lots of information about cases of individuals on this field, the question is, if those subjects can’t do anything about theirs doings, how can the society deal with it, and what is the origin of it, so we can find a preventive  method. From that point will all crimes committed by such persons not be imputed, but then it will be like excusing a tiger for attacking its prey.
I wonder how deep can I get on this subject, as it concerns a very fine tune subject. But if to talk about autistic psychopathy becomes a taboo then we will never find a way out of it. Maybe is a good idea starting by Hitler.


I think being a psychopath is the important issue here. what would autism have to do with it?


#9    Purplos

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 03:14 AM

^ I fail to understand that as well.

Not that I'm some psychologist, but psychosis and autism seem very different to me.  I'm sure it is possible for people to have both disorders, but I can't really imagine how they would be linked.

Embrace the impossible.

#10    Supergladiator

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 03:28 AM

GreytMuse on May 27 2009, 04:33 AM, said:

There is actually a fair bit of research on the topic - one study:

------------------------------
http://eprints.ucl.ac.uk/11879/
Rogers, J. and Viding, E. and Blair, R.J. and Frith, U. and Happé, F. (2006)
Psychological Medicine

Autism spectrum disorder and psychopathy: shared cognitive underpinnings or double hit?

Background. We measured psychopathic traits in boys with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) selected for difficult and aggressive behaviour. We asked (i) whether psychopathic tendencies can be measured in ASD independent of the severity of autistic behaviour; (ii) whether individuals with ASD with callous–unemotional (CU) traits differ in their cognitive profile from those without such traits; and (iii) how the cognitive data from this study compare with previous data of youngsters with psychopathic tendencies. Method. Twenty-eight ASD boys were rated on psychopathic tendencies, autistic traits and a range of cognitive measures assessing mentalizing ability, executive functions, emotion recognition and ability to make moral–conventional distinction.

Our results indicate that psychopathic tendencies are not related to severity of ASD. In addition, such tendencies do not seem to be related to core autistic cognitive deficits...

-----------------------------
I'd encourage you to go off-board and read some of the scientific articles that deal with this issue. original.gif


My concerning is not to establish by definition under which category a psychopath is classified. If  autism is involved or not, in combination with psychopathy is unknown by adults. I agree with the Hitler’s  combination, and as I said before, is about adults and not about children or boys. The therapy use to correct autism at an early stage do not ’cure’ the patient, it only compensates under a camouflage and it is unknown how its develops at a later age.    


    




#11    Dr. Peter Venkman

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 03:49 AM

Rony on May 26 2009, 10:28 PM, said:

My concerning is not to establish by definition under which category a psychopath is classified. If  autism is involved or not, in combination with psychopathy is unknown by adults. I agree with the Hitler’s  combination, and as I said before, is about adults and not about children or boys. The therapy use to correct autism at an early stage do not ’cure’ the patient, it only compensates under a camouflage and it is unknown how its develops at a later age.


Negative Rony

http://www.disability-resource.com/Autism/...-in-adults.html

The issue is psychopathic behavior. Not Autism. I ask again... Why are you concerned with identifying autism, and what would that have to do with Hitler?

Edit.. Cause I can't spell lol

Edited by Dr. Peter Venkman, 27 May 2009 - 03:53 AM.


#12    Supergladiator

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 07:10 AM

No, the issue here is still, or if you agree or disagree about Hitler being that, both, and I don’t see why there is evasion from the point. Besides that I do not force you to answer as you do with huge capitals, you are free to do so. There are to many questions unanswered.  Is not about discriminating people by having a kind of mental sickness, they can’t help that. It is about, how we deal with it, in which cases do we have to protect some from others, what about the statistics, where are they. The reason to chose about grow up people is because there is practically no information to be found. Also the degree is essential. The hard part on this subject is the inability to self diagnosis, and what it makes it worse too is the projection on others. We my as well be one of them without knowing it. Imagine a future world where a ‘healthy’ minority is left, something like ‘the body snatchers’ or some kind of horror, vampire, zombie nightmare. Or imagine a world like Matrix, equilibrium, or idiocrasy or even like in the past, about 400 years a go, anyone being different (better) then the mob was considered a witch and got executed without a proper trial. Nock nock, is there any one able to level with me, or is no one left from the hippie time able to breakthrough the wall?

Edited by Rony, 27 May 2009 - 07:38 AM.


#13    Lars Johansson

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 07:39 AM

There is an overrepresentatiion of racists among Apergers and i believe you will likely find the not so nice ones of the Aspergers in nazi groups and other criminal groups. Nicer ones may be over represented in cults. Other than that I don't see where  this discussion is going. There is NPD, borderline etc, with better data on psychopaths and the likes, at least right now. All Apergers are not racists, but racist talk whenever appearing should be looked at as part of the handicap, though, when it fits with the rest of the criteria for a proper diagnose. Autism is very severe and very often they are menatlly challenged. Asperger should not be mentioned in the same context"in my opinion. There is very big difference between an eye surgeeon and an autistic person who is always mentally about two years of age. It's not just the development, but the way they differ also.


#14    Supergladiator

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 08:17 AM

hei Lars,

I really appreciate, that finally, some one seriously gets into the subject.
Do you mean that among people with AS many of them are racist?
Where do you get this statistic information from?
How come, if this all is a fact, that those people are racist or why are they attracted to become that, as we know, that to be racist is against the law, and if so, they can’t be charged with that. Strange situation as if theoretically no one can be hold responsible for committing a crime do to mental inabilities, and the ’normal’ ones as well want do that, so it will be wrong to punished any one with mental disabilities, even in cases of serial killers?  But how do we differences the AS with or without racist tendencies, and is it born or learned?
There is a large gamma of autism, the subject here is concentrated on HFA/AS which is consider to be the same or similar and not to be mix up with the classic autism.
At the area where I’m living seams to be more frequently cases then elsewhere of autism do to Intel. But it does not explain the source of other cases.        





#15    GreytMuse

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 12:18 PM

Lars Johansson on May 27 2009, 02:39 AM, said:

There is an overrepresentatiion of racists among Apergers and i believe you will likely find the not so nice ones of the Aspergers in nazi groups and other criminal groups. Nicer ones may be over represented in cults.


I cannot find any correlation to this statement of yours.  Please cite your source.  I can only find many people saying that:

...people with Asperger syndrome tend to make very loyal friends, are generally free from sexism or racism... link another similar link

I am not an educational diagnostician, psychologist, or other professional who deals with the diagnosis of autism.  I do, however, think that making sweeping derogatory statements about a group of people is to be avoided.  It only adds to the inaccurate stereotypes that continue to do harm to a vulnerable group of people.

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