Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Carl Sagan Murder | Assassination


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1    555soul

555soul

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts
  • Joined:14 Jun 2009

Posted 16 June 2009 - 12:26 AM

Was Carl Sagan murdered?  Perhaps an exotic biotoxin?  Assassination?

The man who warned you that we live in an age based on science and technology and people don't understand it.

Less than 50% of all Americans understand the earth revolves around the sun and about 25% of Americans recieve a passing grade in basic science.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jod7v-m573k...feature=related
His final interview before death.


If people don't understand science, who is shaping our lives if no one is qualified to understand the science and ask questions?

This is somewhat conspiracy and somewhat alternative history.  The man was diagnosed with a rare blood disease and then died 2 years later.  He was asking, who is running the science and technology in a democracy where no one is asking the questions.  

He warned us to be skeptical of those in authority and to ask questions of them and the science they presented, and he also spoke from a perspective of the Constitution and founding fathers.


What would he have said as a celebrity in response to the Global Warming movement?  And how influential could he have been in that movement and its skepticism?  He was skeptical of UFO's being of alien origin.  As am I, based on history, esotericism and natural science.


I am studied in natural science and I apply it daily:  physics, quantum mechanics, atomic dynamics, unified biology, linear algebra, cryptography, unified field theory, astral physics, astro physics and astronomy, acoustic dynamics, electronics and more.  There is a wealth of free information democraticly available.

Edited by 555soul, 16 June 2009 - 12:29 AM.

The common man has common sense, the exceptional man has exceptional sense.

#2    little_dreamer

little_dreamer

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,412 posts
  • Joined:31 Mar 2008
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Deep South

  • We did not understand it all, but somehow we survived.

Posted 16 June 2009 - 01:35 AM

He died of cancer. I think that was well documented.

I am another anonymous face in the crowd. I am just another tiny wheel in the machinery of the world I live in.

#3    mrbusdriver

mrbusdriver

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,661 posts
  • Joined:19 Dec 2007

Posted 16 June 2009 - 02:35 AM

Why do I think of the AGW scare when I see this? All the public "evidence" seems to just be accepted and amplified by glossy "documentaries" and commercial ads. There is scientific dissent which is being ignored, that the regular folks aren't being informed about.
edit to add...I do have to agree that the state of education for kids in the US is deplorable. Despite massive increases in funding, the system graduates incompetents, totally dependent on the "system". It's very disconcerting to see first hand.

Edited by mrbusdriver, 16 June 2009 - 02:54 AM.


#4    MirrorImage

MirrorImage

    She who carries a big sword

  • Member
  • 2,356 posts
  • Joined:25 Mar 2009
  • Gender:Female

  • If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name in a Swiss bank. -Woody Allen

Posted 16 June 2009 - 04:56 AM

555soul on Jun 15 2009, 06:26 PM, said:

Was Carl Sagan murdered?  Perhaps an exotic biotoxin?  Assassination?

Less than 50% of all Americans understand the earth revolves around the sun and about 25% of Americans recieve a passing grade in basic science.

God I hope youre kidding about that. Could I get a source for your statistics? Im homeschooling my son and Id like to show him the importance of learning and understanding science.

As for Sagan being murdered, it wouldnt suprise me, but it being 100% natural wouldnt suprise me any either.

The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal.
Aristotle


Primitive life is very common and intelligent life is fairly rare, some would say it has yet to occur on earth.
Stephen Hawking


If you cant laugh at yourself, you have no right to laugh at others. I laugh alot.


#5    SQLserver

SQLserver

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,199 posts
  • Joined:18 Nov 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA

  • "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity"

Posted 16 June 2009 - 05:58 PM

, said:

If people don't understand science, who is shaping our lives if no one is qualified to understand the science and ask questions?

Ehh, let me think. Oh yeah, that's right, those who do understand basic science!


555soul)

What would he have said as a celebrity in response to the Global Warming movement?

Oh wait, what's this?
Carl Sagan was an early supporter of Global Warming
Carl Sagan on Global Warming

Oohh, ouch. Looks like we made some dead wrong assumptions about Sagan without doing even some basic research, eh?
There is scientific dissent which is being ignored, that the regular folks aren't being informed about.

Wow! You are right!
There's a whole 2.6% of climatologists who don't agree!

Carl Sagan was an early supporter of Global Warming
Carl Sagan on Global Warming

Oohh, ouch. Looks like we made some dead wrong assumptions about Sagan without doing even some basic research, eh?

Next time, start formulating a little more and start doing a little research.

Cheers,
SQLserver


#6    555soul

555soul

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts
  • Joined:14 Jun 2009

Posted 16 June 2009 - 11:15 PM

MirrorImage on Jun 16 2009, 12:56 AM, said:

God I hope youre kidding about that. Could I get a source for your statistics? Im homeschooling my son and Id like to show him the importance of learning and understanding science.

As for Sagan being murdered, it wouldnt suprise me, but it being 100% natural wouldnt suprise me any either.


Charlie Rose interview, linked in the OP.  I believe that was in '94 or '96.

I am of the same mind on the murder conspiracy.  Considering the interview, I feel his death to be natural from his perspective.  Considering the realities of the world and the nature of the beast, I would not be surprised.


Saving space on replies -

As for the cancer up top - cancer can be manufactured, and a person can be poisoned with cancer.  Natural occurence or an unnatural occurence.  Having said that, when it comes to nature, is cancer even at all that natural.  Research the Castro cancer plot, and watch the film JFK.  The cancer research alluded to in the Garrison research had to do with a covert CIA team manufacturing cancer to poison Castro with.  It has since been well documented, and whether hyou chose to invest in those documents are of course left in your hands.

That's why there was rats in cages in JFK by Oliver Stone.  It was hinted to, but not put in the spotlight.

Edited by 555soul, 16 June 2009 - 11:25 PM.

The common man has common sense, the exceptional man has exceptional sense.

#7    MID

MID

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 14,490 posts
  • Joined:06 Aug 2005
  • Gender:Male

  • ...The greatest error is not to have tried and failed, but that in trying, we did not give it our best effort.

Posted 16 June 2009 - 11:18 PM

MirrorImage on Jun 16 2009, 12:56 AM, said:

God I hope youre kidding about that. Could I get a source for your statistics? Im homeschooling my son and Id like to show him the importance of learning and understanding science.


It was something Dr. Sagan's interviewer quoted during the interview, MI.

If you're homeschooling your child...I can tell you you stand a good chance of doing a hell of alot better than our public school system does.

Bravo to you!  That's a labor of love if ever there was one.

Quote

As for Sagan being murdered, it wouldnt suprise me, but it being 100% natural wouldnt suprise me any either



Well...

It is well known that Dr. Sagan contracted a rare form of cancer, and his treatments took their toll, as they generally do.
One way or another, it's not natural...but the idea of his murder is almost ludicrous.


#8    555soul

555soul

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts
  • Joined:14 Jun 2009

Posted 16 June 2009 - 11:24 PM

SQLserver on Jun 16 2009, 01:58 PM, said:

The best part about this "conspiracy" is the OP doesn't even try to come up with a real motive, or any real evidence. It's just a "maybe it happened" kind of thing.


It is there in plain English, you simply missed it.  

It's best to do one's own gift wrapping of information.  I wouldn't invest 100% into any information that has been gift wrapped, polished and handed to me.  That's what got so many people into trouble in the first place - leasing one's thinking to third parties.


Changing gears -

I find it interesting that he's towing the line in the global warming debate and the nuclear debate with Ted Turner on CNN in a Ted Turnder led interview, one-on-one.  When is the last time you saw Ted Turner interview anyone on CNN?

He towed the line in its entirety within that interview, making all of the right political moves as a scientist, and then in later interviews after he had been diagnosed, he did a 180 degree turnaround and was advocating free thinking from a sciences perspective and began or continued warning people in that interview.  Shortly after, the cancer ran its course and he was dead.

Shortly after he was dead, global warming hysteria began making headway.  Sagan was a pop figure scientist, a celebrity physicist - go find his humor filled television show clips.  We don't see that on television in gift wrapped form nowadays.  If a guy such as that, with great influence got in the way of the global warming pseudo science and reality terraforming, it could have caused a lot of Industrial political trouble.


As a good scientist and scientific mind, maybe ask yourself if its possible to manufacture bone marrow based cancer.  I've been asking myself that.








The common man has common sense, the exceptional man has exceptional sense.

#9    555soul

555soul

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts
  • Joined:14 Jun 2009

Posted 16 June 2009 - 11:32 PM

This isn't smoking gun conspiracy.  It's a novel idea I had.

Ideally Industrial assassination is done quietly and appears as accidental.  The best assassinations you never suspect or even hear of.


When it's a clear political figure, that is where the assassination is mostly public - although start researching where assumed 'natural' deaths occur after an Industrial altercation that involved government.  Government isn't the enemy, it is Industry.  Goverment is the intermediary between Industry and the Citizenry.


Biologists and physicists are highly accident prone and suicidal, especially when working for certain corporations and Industry.  A few even have heart attacks and aneurysms - I'll leave you to your 14th century historical reading on that front.  It's a very old game.

The common man has common sense, the exceptional man has exceptional sense.

#10    SQLserver

SQLserver

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,199 posts
  • Joined:18 Nov 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA

  • "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity"

Posted 17 June 2009 - 01:35 AM


555soul)

He towed the line in its entirety within that interview, making all of the right political moves as a scientist, and then in later interviews after he had been diagnosed, he did a 180 degree turnaround and was advocating free thinking from a sciences perspective and began or continued warning people in that interview.

Ehhh, no. Sagan died accepting that global warming is a challenge humanity has to face.

You may be confused: He advocated skeptical inquiry until he died, that is t, said:

He towed the line in its entirety within that interview, making all of the right political moves as a scientist, and then in later interviews after he had been diagnosed, he did a 180 degree turnaround and was advocating free thinking from a sciences perspective and began or continued warning people in that interview.

Ehhh, no. Sagan died accepting that global warming is a challenge humanity has to face.

You may be confused: He advocated skeptical inquiry until he died, that is true. However, a skeptical inquiry of man made global warming led Sagan to conclude that global warming is a real threat.


#11    555soul

555soul

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts
  • Joined:14 Jun 2009

Posted 17 June 2009 - 02:43 AM

SQLserver on Jun 16 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

Ehhh, no. Sagan died accepting that global warming is a challenge humanity has to face.

You may be confused: He advocated skeptical inquiry until he died, that is true. However, a skeptical inquiry of man made global warming led Sagan to conclude that global warming is a real threat.


Global warming is a challenge.  A challenge doesn't corellate to a cause and effect relationship.  Global warming is a threat.  That threat doesn't translate to man made threat.

Today we have an imaginary line based on politics drawn between weather, science and geopolitics - similar to what he was in tune with during his political participation on the nuclear debate, as a pop political philosopher.

He towed a pop packaged version of Global Warming and Nuclear debate in his interview with Ted Turner.  His spirit in later years after being diagnosed with cancer was outspoken towards the packaged science he was advocating earlier.  

Whether or not that was his unique message doesn't matter.  That voice supported the political agenda of the day and it made him by default a member of a political agenda or popular sales pitch, because he was a popular figure.  If he wasn't on board with the agenda, he wouldn't have been interviewed on the topic.


Edited by 555soul, 17 June 2009 - 02:46 AM.

The common man has common sense, the exceptional man has exceptional sense.

#12    555soul

555soul

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts
  • Joined:14 Jun 2009

Posted 17 June 2009 - 02:52 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2zMa3unSN8

Here he is pimping politics with Ted Turner.


So we were destroying the ozone layer with our deoderant?  The Sagan towards the end was not the Sagan during this interview, he had grown - and in that growth he wasn't being used to pimp politics, it was his final note and his goodbye.  

No more career to build, no more agenda to pimp for celebrity or tv deals or grants or book deals - the big finish, the big nothing.



Ted Turner isn't here to help you or save the planet, he's here for Ted Turner.  This is a politics package for a network that was about to delve heavily into government and Industry based mass communications.  He was showing he could pimp political agenda with his clout - the man himself, in the trenches.

Pseudo Science
The interview itself IS pseudo science.  It is using a popular science figure or personality and their perspective to coral the public into a political agenda.  This interview is PERFECT as far as what he warned against.

Sagan was at Ground Zero for the pseudo science war being launched on America and elsewhere.  He warned that science is the new religion.

The Ted Turner piece is a pilot for what was to come in terms of Science, Generals of Military, and all the other pseudo talking heads of the political agenda Hydra.

Turner is flexing and showing his audience of power what he can do with his new concept.  Most of us are the recievers of that concept, daily.

Edited by 555soul, 17 June 2009 - 02:59 AM.

The common man has common sense, the exceptional man has exceptional sense.

#13    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 13,800 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 19 June 2009 - 07:11 AM

As i'm certain you realise, it is impossable to establish a direct causal relationship between CO2 and temperature, however all recorded evidence going back many thousands of years indicates that the two track each other exactly. This is the basis of the Global Warming theory. Since we have increased the atmospheric CO2 by a half it is very reasonable to extrapolate that temperatures are rising and will continue doing so.
There is a strong will to believe that man has nothing to do with it, and this is part of a psychological unwillingness to accept that we can be to blame for what will inevitably cause the demise of a signifcant proportion of life on earth. The last great extinction is happening now and it is manmade.

For me 555soul you sound paranoid.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#14    MID

MID

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 14,490 posts
  • Joined:06 Aug 2005
  • Gender:Male

  • ...The greatest error is not to have tried and failed, but that in trying, we did not give it our best effort.

Posted 20 June 2009 - 05:02 PM

little_dreamer on Jun 15 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

He died of cancer. I think that was well documented.




Actually, Dr. Sagan died of pneumonia (more probably, respiratory failure due to pneumonia due to a severely depressed immune system due to treatment of whatever the rare blood / marrow cancer he had was).

This is likely similar to the large majority of the thousands and thousands of people who "die of cancer" every year.

That fact may change the whole basis for this particular CT!  Maybe it was just that they administred to him some pneumonia...somehow...utilizing the fact that that chemical destruction of his immune sytem was in place!

God...

Or maybe it was a typical tragic death due to modern medical treatments for degenerative disease.

Why would anyone murder Dr. Sagan?
What did he do?

He merely produced some of the greatest scientific educational material of the day, inspired by his perception of the abject lack in scientific understanding produced by a failing educational system.  He was merely one of the first and certainly most outspoken advocates of fixing something that was obviously in the degenerative throws of breakage, and he was right.

That situation still exists, and is absolutely no secret today.  So, why kill him?
Personally, the idea is ludicrous, as there's certainly nothing to indicate such a thing, and everything to indicate that he died from typical resultants of modern medical treatment concerning diseases like that which he had.



As to his ideas back then?
Well, he changed his tune on nuclear winter in his later years, and I have the strangest suspicion that he'd have changed his tune regarding man-made global warming as well.   He was all for changing his mind when the evidence suggested that he might be in error, or when new and better information came up...but we'll never know, of course, since we lost him.


And God knows I hope this doesn't turn into another MMGW thread.

I have the sneaking suspicion that it is, and that this will be a place to go and have a laugh a couple decades from now when the present cooling trend has been present for many years, and people realize that they hysteria was nonsense...






#15    555soul

555soul

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts
  • Joined:14 Jun 2009

Posted 21 June 2009 - 11:30 PM

MID on Jun 20 2009, 01:02 PM, said:

Why would anyone murder Dr. Sagan?
What did he do?

He merely produced some of the greatest scientific educational material of the day, inspired by his perception of the abject lack in scientific understanding produced by a failing educational system.  He was merely one of the first and certainly most outspoken advocates of fixing something that was obviously in the degenerative throws of breakage, and he was right.

That situation still exists, and is absolutely no secret today.  So, why kill him?

You asked and answered your own question, and provided the motive.  The motive is within your own answer.  The resulting benefit is also in your answer.  All answers are within.


There is a power vacuum that surrounds the status quo.  Those who maintain the quo maintain the power.  You said yourself he was the first and most outspoken advocates of altering that power structure.

Perhaps the system is in hte degenerative throws of breakage because people desire it to be in the degenerative throws of breakage?


It is true from your perspective that the situation still exists and he is dead.  Your last question was answered by yourself in the preceding line.  To preserve that situation.  


To preserve that power structure and what it hoped to deliver in the coming years.  Those coming years are here today.



The older a man gets, the more power and authority he is percieved to have.  If that power and authority fits the quo of the power state, it is permissable.

If that wisdom falls into line with independent free thought, it threatens the power structure, therefore it must be removed and assassinated.


Carl Sagan would have been a powerful source of independent thought in an age where the desire is to allow the science to be handed down unquestioned by the scientific power state and the science soothsayers.  Those are valid reasons I see on the table.

Edited by 555soul, 21 June 2009 - 11:34 PM.

The common man has common sense, the exceptional man has exceptional sense.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users