40 replies to this topic

[angel417]

We do wonder about the mysterious.

After all, it is a natural human tendency to do so. Often times intangible elements in life that seem far beyond our ordinary perceptions cannot be immediately grasped through our average understanding, manners of thinking that are inevitably marred by individual beliefs. What we don’t see, what we can’t see, what we can’t touch, and what we simply cannot reach, all appear to us as images or scenes that are not characterized by clarity. Our place is firmly rooted in the present, the duration of current time in which we must engage with others and our surroundings.

So now it is known to us that we, as human beings, tend to both live steadily in the present – the being-centralized boundary of the now – and wander off into a distant field of memories and yearnings that sees no restrictive lines.

Are we really existing and functioning in the realm of physical reality, of substance, and of presence at the same time? Or are we being watched and monitored by an outer, supreme force, an unknown entity that identifies with or represents our beings?

This then leads me to ponder upon the possibility that we are not really all beings but, rather, these outer forces are, and that we are nothing more than physical appearances, transparent in our daily operations with no evident proof that we really are here.

Thank you for taking part in this discussion - happy discussing!  

[Lady Amethyst]

Someone told me that we're not really here at all. The sun isn't real. Nothing is real. We're just figments of someone's imagination. IMHO this is a view that I find wishy washy and bizarre, as it doesn't make sense.

[Godsnmbr1]

Well it's by far the most likely situation.  From a secular viewpoint, there exists one true reality and then a practically infinite number of simulated (false)realities, yes?  It's simple statistics--do you think you're holding the winning ticket or one of the trillions of losing tickets?  It's my personal belief that we probably can't even imagine what the true reality is like.  Planets?  Galaxies?  Doubtful.  It's our base though, so imagining something different is practically impossible.  

Once, while under the influence, I came to the idea that it's the emotions we create that are actually real and we exist merely as tools to aid in their creation.  Not too sure where I was going with that one, but like I said--under the influence.

Edit:  nice first post btw.  We need more intelligent posters like yourself on UM.

Edited by Godsnmbr1, 16 June 2009 - 07:30 AM.

[Leonardo]

angel417 on Jun 16 2009, 05:27 AM, said:

We do wonder about the mysterious.

After all, it is a natural human tendency to do so. Often times intangible elements in life that seem far beyond our ordinary perceptions cannot be immediately grasped through our average understanding, manners of thinking that are inevitably marred by individual beliefs. What we don’t see, what we can’t see, what we can’t touch, and what we simply cannot reach, all appear to us as images or scenes that are not characterized by clarity. Our place is firmly rooted in the present, the duration of current time in which we must engage with others and our surroundings.

So now it is known to us that we, as human beings, tend to both live steadily in the present – the being-centralized boundary of the now – and wander off into a distant field of memories and yearnings that sees no restrictive lines.

Are we really existing and functioning in the realm of physical reality, of substance, and of presence at the same time? Or are we being watched and monitored by an outer, supreme force, an unknown entity that identifies with or represents our beings?

This then leads me to ponder upon the possibility that we are not really all beings but, rather, these outer forces are, and that we are nothing more than physical appearances, transparent in our daily operations with no evident proof that we really are here.

Thank you for taking part in this discussion - happy discussing!

Good post and an interesting point.

I would ask you, if we are not beings, then how can one explain the state of being without a recursive (and therefore logically false) argument?

[angel417]

Hey!

Thanks for all the responses so far!

I think I have posed a rather complicated question (which seems like a rather tough and broad concept to handle), so I hope I am able to simplify it a little with these simpler and more “understandable” questions:

Many people are positive that we “live in the Now” and that all things are physical and “real.” This may seem undoubtedly true, given our pure conceptions of the tangible elements in life. So, what makes people so sure that we actually do live in the present, the Now? What is there in life (or in anything) that supports this wide assertion?

Also, try to think about things such as blanking out or daydreaming (previously discussed in Angela’s discussion), or anything else that may possibly have to do with not being “conscious” in the present. When we do these things, where are we? Meaning, perhaps, what dimension or plan are we on? And what may possibly be the reason for us to enter these dimensions/planes?

[Leonardo]

angel417 on Jun 16 2009, 12:27 PM, said:

Hey!

Thanks for all the responses so far!

I think I have posed a rather complicated question (which seems like a rather tough and broad concept to handle), so I hope I am able to simplify it a little with these simpler and more “understandable” questions:

Hi angel.

I have a question myself, about your past post.

Did you write this because the answers you received weren't what you wanted? Do you think those who replied didn't understand your questions because the responses weren't what you thought they would be?

If so, you might wish to consider that people will respond with their answers to questions of the nature you posed. It is highly unlikely they will respond with your answers to these questions.

Maybe you wish to consider discussing the responses, rather than assume no-one understood your questions?

[Lady Amethyst]

angel417 on Jun 16 2009, 12:27 PM, said:

Hey!

Thanks for all the responses so far!

I think I have posed a rather complicated question (which seems like a rather tough and broad concept to handle), so I hope I am able to simplify it a little with these simpler and more “understandable” questions:

Many people are positive that we “live in the Now” and that all things are physical and “real.” This may seem undoubtedly true, given our pure conceptions of the tangible elements in life. So, what makes people so sure that we actually do live in the present, the Now? What is there in life (or in anything) that supports this wide assertion?

Also, try to think about things such as blanking out or daydreaming (previously discussed in Angela’s discussion), or anything else that may possibly have to do with not being “conscious” in the present. When we do these things, where are we? Meaning, perhaps, what dimension or plan are we on? And what may possibly be the reason for us to enter these dimensions/planes?

What makes you think we didn't understand you?    Your first post was VERY easy to read.

Your above post makes it only harder for you.

[angel417]

Hey!

I really, really do apologize if some of you thought about it in thatis there way – that I doubted your understanding of my question. To tell the truth, my own question puzzled me a little initially and as a result I had to do some serious thinking about the topic at hand. Also, some of my friends thought the question was really confusing and quite difficult to discuss about, so I thought that it would help to pose some “simpler” questions in order to clarify, or expand, on my bigger question. I absolutely do appreciate all of your responses so far, and I would love to hear more of your insightful ideas.

Although our presence may be situated in the Now, we still may never know exactly, for sure, if the physical realm is the actual home of our beings, the truest and purest form inside the body. It may exist on a spiritual realm, or it may exist on another realm. Also, if it is indeed the Universal Being that is “monitoring” us, then would that also be restricting us and our potential energies (just a thought). The “fragments and energies” that we are composed of seem to linger on after we pass away, and either return to nature, or enter the bodies of other people (bringing in reincarnation) – is this still the present, then? Do these bits of the “original body” (if there is an original body at all … is there?) exist in a different “Now,” a different state of being (that has very much to do, I think, with time and the passing of time)?

Let’s talk about the possible “invisibility” of the Now, the body, the being, the ego-mind … or any other element that reassures us of our presence in the present domain. Why do they reinforce our presence (why are they there?), and what certain qualities or properties do they have that allows us to think that we really are here?

We all think (positively so, I must say) that we live in the present. And that may be so. But we never know, really, what is out there. Yes – out there. This can be referring to another realm, another world, spirits, ghosts, invisible things that float by us … things we can’t see or can’t picture clearly. A rather scientific mode is activated when we say we live in the present because everything we presently see, feel, and touch is made out of particles and materials. But what if we were to think in a non-scientific way? There are always “physical barriers,” but what could this signify about our beings? Are our beings narrow-minded (that really just came from nowhere)?

Just a really straightforward question: Do you think there can be two worlds where we exist at the same time? Why or why not? Also, how can we be so certain the ego-mind is also living in the present (except when it shows flashbacks of the past inside one’s head)? Could it be that the ego-mind is tricking us and not letting us see the real identity of things, or our own real identities?

Again, happy discussing!

Also, if you are interested, you can come join us at “The Transparent Eyeball” forum, a forum which houses many other intriguing discussions!

Here is the link: http://transparency.phpbb9.com/forum.htm

[Lady Amethyst]

Thanks for explaining your post.

[angel417]

Quote

Once, while under the influence, I came to the idea that it's the emotions we create that are actually real and we exist merely as tools to aid in their creation. Not too sure where I was going with that one, but like I said--under the influence.

As Godsnmbr1 suggested, it is actually the emotions that we create that are actually defined and characterized as reality. This is really interesting to think about! But where do emotions really come from? Are they a result of the ego-mind, the being, or a combination of both? Our perceptions are inevitably marred by our ego-minds (and their strong domination over the body), and so our emotions and feelings are also a result of our interactions with society, the surrounding environment, etc. Do our emotions represent (and this is just a thought) our consciousness, the awareness of things both within and beyond the body/physical plane? If so, where else could this consciousness interact or exist (on another plane, perhaps – one that is not the one we exist on –?)?

[Lady Amethyst]

Emotions are not restricted to human beings. Animals feel it too. So does everything else in nature. Look at storms. We're all a part of nature and not outside of it.

[behaviour???]

Summing up every creature inside the realm of nature has emotion but we being superior creatures express it
Thanks
B???

[John from Lowell]

angel417 on Jun 16 2009, 11:16 AM, said:

As Godsnmbr1 suggested, it is actually the emotions that we create that are actually defined and characterized as reality. This is really interesting to think about! But where do emotions really come from? Are they a result of the ego-mind, the being, or a combination of both? Our perceptions are inevitably marred by our ego-minds (and their strong domination over the body), and so our emotions and feelings are also a result of our interactions with society, the surrounding environment, etc. Do our emotions represent (and this is just a thought) our consciousness, the awareness of things both within and beyond the body/physical plane? If so, where else could this consciousness interact or exist (on another plane, perhaps – one that is not the one we exist on –?)?

I would say it is not so much the emotion as the cultural conditioning that formulates a person's reality perceptions.

Your origional question as to the nature of the human expression is subjective. Those who see our essence as an energetic awareness beyond our human perception of reality will conclude our truest reality embraces the unseen realms. Those who see us as beings limited to provable physical expression only, will not.

In my view, it is not if we have an expanded presence but how we incorporate it in our daily life that matters most.

John

[angel417]

Our ego-minds do adapt to individual experiences and also to social conditioning. This molds its awareness, and perhaps its consciousness, too. But how would you define consciousness in the physical realm? In the spiritual realm? Again, what really is defined as real, and what is not real? Are there some things that are in between, perhaps? (There could always be a neutral state of things). Perhaps reality is also embodied in other things and forms of life, and not just restricted to human beings, the ego-mind, etc. What would be “reality” for these other forms, then?

[John from Lowell]

There are different kinds of reality, as I see it. In the physical realm we have laws of physics. In the non-physical realm these laws do not apply or at the very least are applied differenty. There is no gravity in the non-physical realm.

The same concept applies with a person's perception. Their human conditioning will determine to a large extent their perspectives and their perceptions. This forum is a wonderful example of that. So many different points of view on every subject. Each POV is the primary reality construct for the person. There is in many cases, no way to comprehend another's point of view.

John