Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Kerguelen, the microcontinent that was...


  • Please log in to reply
45 replies to this topic

#16    TheSearcher

TheSearcher

    Coffee expert extraordinair

  • Member
  • 3,845 posts
  • Joined:16 Jun 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium

Posted 18 June 2009 - 09:15 AM


Leonardo, you're correct if you go for the purely scientific aproach, but as Abramelin said, he posted this more as an appeal to ones imagination, as opposed to saying that it was the truth. He even says it is science fiction. grin2.gif

Quote

Don't worry, it's nothing but science fiction.

It's just a possiblitiy, a civilization whiped out by time, a long time. No remnants will be discovered for the strong sea currents in that area will have whiped out anything that might give us a clue. These same currents will have flushed the top soil, and only leave an ancient, 24 millions year old rock bottom, the bootom they took samples of.

Great , eh?


This said, who said that only hominids ever went up the long road to inteligence? I'm fairly sure that nature had previous (if unsuccessfull) tries. Who knows, maybe maybe there was a race of nearly intelligent insects or dino's a few million years back. The odds of finding evidence of that are next to nill.
I find that the beauty of the imagination.

Just see this as an excercise of thinking waaaaaay outside the box

It is only the ignorant who despise education.
Publilius Syrus.

So god made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?!

#17    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,127 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 18 June 2009 - 12:54 PM

Leonardo on Jun 18 2009, 09:41 AM, said:

Given the Kergualen Plateau's position of relative isolation from any of the significant landmasses of past geological era's (I don't believe it was ever a part of any of the major continents) - and that it was not part of the great Southern continent of Gondwana, but a relatively recent extrusion of igneous rock, I find it unlikely that any of the major fauna of those eras would have populated the region.

Certainly the flora was present, and it is not difficult to conclude that insects were present also. In the latter part of its existence above sea level birds and perhaps some marine mammals/reptiles such as seals, tortoises/turtles, etc (or their ancestors) could also have populated regions of the plateau.

The evolution of any 'technologically intelligent' species on the Plateau would also seem unlikely as we have no precedent for the evolution of any such species apart from the hominid lineage anywhere else in the world - and the pre-hominids which evolved would not have been present on Kerguelen.

All this is contingent, of course, on Kerguelen being isolated as I believe it was. If it could be shown to have been connected to a major continent with 'higher order' organisms from which an technologically intelligent species may have evolved then the possibility might exist (however remote it would still be).



From one of the links - http://www.answers.com/topic/kerguelen-plateau - in the first post:

"The so-called Kerguelen continent might have had tropical flora and fauna about 50 million years ago. The Kerguelen continent finally sank 20 million years ago and is now 1 2 km below sea level. It has sedimentary rocks similar to the ones found in Australia and India, suggesting they were once connected."


Leonardo, I am not a geologist, so what I am saying is maybe bs, but it could be that the Kerguelen Plateau was indeed connected to India and Australia - like geologists think it once was - then it broke off and drifted away. Then it moved over a hotspot - or a hotspot moved under it, like the one under Yellowstone Park - and in time got overflown by lava.
Or it was indeed 'nothing but' a hotspot, creating it's own 'continent'.  In that last case, I think of Iceland or Hawaii, or even the Galapagos Archipelago.

And if it is indeed true that India, the Kerguelen and Australia were once connected, the Kerguelen might have had other life forms than just those that washed ashore or came flying, like for instance mammals and marsupials, so the flora and fauna might have been more like that on a 'real' continent.

Edited by Abramelin, 18 June 2009 - 01:19 PM.


#18    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,127 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 18 June 2009 - 01:30 PM

TheSearcher on Jun 18 2009, 11:15 AM, said:

Leonardo, you're correct if you go for the purely scientific aproach, but as Abramelin said, he posted this more as an appeal to ones imagination, as opposed to saying that it was the truth. He even says it is science fiction. grin2.gif



This said, who said that only hominids ever went up the long road to inteligence? I'm fairly sure that nature had previous (if unsuccessfull) tries. Who knows, maybe maybe there was a race of nearly intelligent insects or dino's a few million years back. The odds of finding evidence of that are next to nill.
I find that the beauty of the imagination.

Just see this as an excercise of thinking waaaaaay outside the box



Well, here is a bit more of the science fiction:


" (..) The premise: An evolutionary development somewhat similar to apes-to-human occurs many millions of years before the rise of humanity. And rather than involving apes, this consists of a couple species from an independently evolved primate family (highly distinct from humanity's own primate ancestors)-- or pseudo-primate-- evolving into something else: something where one symbiont possesses a smallish humanoid shape and likeness, and human-like intelligence-- but is still a decidedly different species from 21st century humanity. The second species is something like a much smaller and less intelligent version than the first, which serves to complement the larger, smarter species. This symbiotic pair of species might live and thrive millions of years before humanity emerges on Earth. If such a civilization developed upon the Kerguelen continent (and rarely ventured beyond it), then about a million years afterwards all signs of the culture would have vanished as the entire continent sank beneath the seas. 20 million years of wear and tear since would mop up any remaining obvious clues, leaving 21st century humanity unsuspecting that such a people ever existed. Or that they might still survive today. (...) "

http://www.jmooneyham.com/lost-civilization-kerguelen.html


" (...)   [Caution: Extreme speculation ahead; this section mostly created for "What If?" entertainment value]

Millions of years of fierce competition between the smart Antarctic reptile predators and their pseudo-primate prey boosted the intelligence and physical capacities of both. Subsequent migration to the Kerguelen island(s) continent as Antarctica iced over also accelerated evolution of the species, though perhaps the pseudo-primates more so than the reptiles, as the repeated intervening aquatic environment/stage(s) were more alien to the pseudo-primates, and required more adaptation on their part. Once commited to Kerguelen, both the reptiles and pseudo-primates found themselves pressed even harder in evolutionary terms, as Kerguelen was subject to relatively frequent wholesale cataclysms: vast land sweeping tsunamis stemming from underwater landslides and faraway volcanic eruptions and cosmic impacts in the oceans, with the worst occuring on average every 3,000 to 320,000 years or so, and somewhat less damaging events happening every 100,000 years. Added to this was occasional disasterous volcanic activity in Kerguelen itself, as well as ongoing climate changes. All this would combine to drive all large animal life extinct on Kerguelen, or else mercilessly push its evolution to heights 20th century man will never suspect.(...) "


http://www.jmooneyham.com/drag.html






#19    Emma_Acid

Emma_Acid

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,760 posts
  • Joined:29 Jan 2007
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:London

  • Godspeed MID

Posted 18 June 2009 - 01:48 PM

Abramelin on Jun 18 2009, 02:30 PM, said:

(..) The premise: An evolutionary development somewhat similar to apes-to-human occurs many millions of years before the rise of humanity. And rather than involving apes, this consists of a couple species from an independently evolved primate family (highly distinct from humanity's own primate ancestors)-- or pseudo-primate-- evolving into something else: something where one symbiont possesses a smallish humanoid shape and likeness, and human-like intelligence-- but is still a decidedly different species from 21st century humanity. The second species is something like a much smaller and less intelligent version than the first, which serves to complement the larger, smarter species. This symbiotic pair of species might live and thrive millions of years before humanity emerges on Earth. If such a civilization developed upon the Kerguelen continent (and rarely ventured beyond it), then about a million years afterwards all signs of the culture would have vanished as the entire continent sank beneath the seas. 20 million years of wear and tear since would mop up any remaining obvious clues, leaving 21st century humanity unsuspecting that such a people ever existed.


Fine I'm sure there are species of ape we don't know about, but they wouldn't have been "technologically advanced". For a civilisation to be technologically advanced it needs to be global. We have never discovered a previously untouched tribe in the rainforest that have independently invented cars or tvs. Likewise, a branch in the ape family line existing on its own tiny soon-to-be doomed continent would not have been able to become technologically advanced.

"Science is the least subjective form of deduction" ~ A. Mulder

#20    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,127 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 18 June 2009 - 02:07 PM

Emma_Acid on Jun 18 2009, 03:48 PM, said:

Fine I'm sure there are species of ape we don't know about, but they wouldn't have been "technologically advanced". For a civilisation to be technologically advanced it needs to be global. We have never discovered a previously untouched tribe in the rainforest that have independently invented cars or tvs. Likewise, a branch in the ape family line existing on its own tiny soon-to-be doomed continent would not have been able to become technologically advanced.


You cannot tell for sure because our own, human civilization is the only one which we can go by.

If we would have met more and non-human civilizations. then we could say that so and so is needed for a species to develop a technological advanced civilization.

And on the Kerguelen Plateau, even if it was regularly devasted by earthquakes and volcanism, there may have been time enough - many millions of years - for a species to develop something like a civilization, maybe even a technologically advanced civilization.

You cannot simply rule out the possibility, based only on what we humans did in the distant past or at present in the rainforests.


#21    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 36,975 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 18 June 2009 - 02:19 PM

Abramelin on Jun 18 2009, 05:07 PM, said:

You cannot tell for sure because our own, human civilization is the only one which we can go by.

If we would have met more and non-human civilizations. then we could say that so and so is needed for a species to develop a technological advanced civilization.

And on the Kerguelen Plateau, even if it was regularly devasted by earthquakes and volcanism, there may have been time enough - many millions of years - for a species to develop something like a civilization, maybe even a technologically advanced civilization.

You cannot simply rule out the possibility, based only on what we humans did in the distant past or at present in the rainforests.


So far, there is neither theoretical or practical evidence that intelligence could develop with a different set of rules as the ones known. It is but the cumulative experience pared with the capability of projecting them to other circumstances.

To be able to make a large number of experiences in a delimited period of time (in our case several million years) you need a certain number of individuals capable of transmitting experiences made, unless you want to attribute them a biologically impossible large life span.

Human intelligence is the result of several hundred millions of years of evolution, with probably billions of individuals (not all would be considered human) making experiences. I fail to see how that can be replicated in less then 1% of the time and considerably less individuals.



A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#22    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,127 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 18 June 2009 - 02:38 PM

>Questionmark:
So far, there is neither theoretical or practical evidence that intelligence could develop with a different set of rules as the ones known. It is but the cumulative experience pared with the capability of projecting them to other circumstances.


I see no reason why that could not have happened on the Kerguelen.

>Q:
To be able to make a large number of experiences in a delimited period of time (in our case several million years) you need a certain number of individuals capable of transmitting experiences made, unless you want to attribute them a biologically impossible large life span.


What makes you think there were not enough individuals capable of transmitting experiences? And why the need for impossibly long life spans? After the Toba volcano exploded some 75,000 years ago, just several thousands of humans survived. That seemed to have been enough to go on, even though the remaining humans would have had a very hard time coping with the circumstances back then.

>Q:
Human intelligence is the result of several hundred millions of years of evolution, with probably billions of individuals (not all would be considered human) making experiences. I fail to see how that can be replicated in less then 1% of the time and considerably less individuals.


The species that may have lived on Kerguelen didn't just drop from the air, they may have went though a previous evolution on the combined landmass of India, Australia and the Kerguelen. Then they got separated, and the evoloution just went on, and maybe in a different direction, as often happens on isolated landmasses/islands.

Edited by Abramelin, 18 June 2009 - 02:56 PM.


#23    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 36,975 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 18 June 2009 - 02:56 PM

Abramelin on Jun 18 2009, 05:38 PM, said:

I see no reason why that could not have happened on the Kerguelen.


I do because there was not enough time nor enough individuals, as said before


Abramelin on Jun 18 2009, 05:38 PM, said:

What makes you think there were not enough individuals capable of transmitting experiences? And why the need for impossibly long life spans? After the Toba volcano exploded some 75,000 years ago, just several thousands of humans survived. That seemed to have been enough to go on, even though the remaining humans would have had a very hard time coping with the circumstances back then.


like, for example, those surviving humans already had millions of years of experience through evolution.

Abramelin on Jun 18 2009, 05:38 PM, said:

The species that may have lived on Kerguelen didn't  just drop from the air, they may went though a previous evolution on the combined landmass of India, Australia and the Kerguelen. Then they got separated, and the evoloution just went on.


And so intelligence could also come from the visit by the Nibblers from Niburu or by a Pentecostal Holy Spirit coming down.... but there is no evidence to that. We can speculate as much as we want, that would make fine Science Fiction, but to make Science has a set of probabilities, that first form a theory and are later, by acquisition of additional information, formed to a scientific rule.

So far, all we know about isolated groups of less than the minimum number of individuals required for technological advance is that they, at best, stay at the level acquired previously. If you don't have the critical mass, no reaction.

ED: Typo

Edited by questionmark, 18 June 2009 - 02:57 PM.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#24    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,127 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 18 June 2009 - 03:19 PM

> Questionmark:
I do because there was not enough time nor enough individuals, as said before


You just cannot be sure about that.

>Q:
like, for example, those surviving humans already had millions of years of experience through evolution


But the hypothetical species on Kerguelen had too. Like I said, they didn't drop from the air, they may have evolved on the combined landmass of India, Australia and Kerguelen.

And you talk about millions of years? Ten millions of years before present our ancestors were still small primates trying to fight off many predators while trying to survive in the tree tops. If that is true, the same or something similar may have happened to the species that continued evolving on the Kerguelen.

>Q:
And so intelligence could also come from the visit by the Nibblers from Niburu or by a Pentecostal Holy Spirit coming down.... but there is no evidence to that. We can speculate as much as we want, that would make fine Science Fiction, but to make Science has a set of probabilities, that first form a theory and are later, by acquisition of additional information, frormed to a scientific rule.


So far, all we know about isolated groups of less than the minimum number of individuals required for technological advance is that they, at best, stay at the level acquired previously. If you don't have the critical mass, no reaction.



Intelligence is present in many species around us today. But just because we out-dominate them, they have no real chance of evolving into something 'more'. That may change as soon as we die out, or when they get the chance to develop without our interference.

Yes, science has a set of probabilities that formed to a scientific rule. And still I am not as certain as you appear to be that it is impossible that some species was able to evolve to an intelligent, and even technological species in the millions of years of isolation on a mini-continent (or whatever you want to call it) the size of Japan.

Btw: check what the socalled New Caledonian crows are doing and are capable of; they developed in isolation, and there are scientists that say they are now in the same stage of development as stone-age men. Given the chance, anything is possible, but we are just too focussed on our own species.

Edited by Abramelin, 18 June 2009 - 03:21 PM.


#25    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 36,975 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 18 June 2009 - 03:48 PM

Abramelin on Jun 18 2009, 06:19 PM, said:

But the hypothetical species on Kerguelen had too. Like I said, they didn't drop from the air, they may have evolved on the combined landmass of India, Australia and Kerguelen.

And you talk about millions of years? Ten millions of years before present our ancestors were still small primates trying to fight off many predators while trying to survive in the tree tops. If that is true, the same or something similar may have happened to the species that continued evolving on the Kerguelen.


But how many millions and how many billions of experiences before the first primate like beast climbed on trees?

And, no its not only the experience of hominids that are part of human intelligence, but the experience since evolution created memory.

Abramelin on Jun 18 2009, 06:19 PM, said:

Btw: check what the socalled New Caledonian crows are doing and are capable of; they developed in isolation, and there are scientists that say they are now in the same stage of development as stone-age men. Given the chance, anything is possible, but we are just too focussed on our own species.


Sorry to tell you, but those birds are more evidence for my stance than for yours. Birds have been around for a longer period of time than hominids, yet their most advanced specimen is only capable of using a stick.

The answer? Limited transmission of information among individuals. And that Crow mothers show their offspring to use a stick to get maggots clearly demonstrates that it is not a congenital capability but a trained one. Why is there a limited transmission among individuals? Because the numbers are too low.





A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#26    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,127 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 18 June 2009 - 04:13 PM

>Questionmark:
But how many millions and how many billions of experiences before the first primate like beast climbed on trees?


And, no its not only the experience of hominids that are part of human intelligence, but the experience since evolution created memory.


I must be missing something here... Do you think that the species that got separated from the rest by being isolated on the Kerguelen somehow lost all the built up instincts and intelligence it had before when living on the original landmass of India-Australia-Kerguelen ?

>Q:
Sorry to tell you, but those birds are more evidence for my stance than for yours. Birds have been around for a longer period of time than hominids, yet their most advanced specimen is only capable of using a stick.


The answer? Limited transmission of information among individuals. And that Crow mothers show their offspring to use a stick to get maggots clearly demonstrates that it is not a congenital capability but a trained one. Why is there a limited transmission among individuals? Because the numbers are too low.


Sorry to tell you, but exactly this species of crow is capable of doing a lot more. Scientists were simply stunned by what they discovered when studying these crows; Google "New Caledonian crows" and "Betty"...
It is well known that ravens and crows are amongst the most intelligent animal species on this planet, but exactly these Caledonian crows are evolving in isolation (well, up to not that long ago) and doing things no other corvid is known to have done, or even capable of.


And the parent Caledonian crows transmit what they learned to their offspring, even though their numbers are low. Something is happening there, despite the fact that these crows are not as numerous as you think is necessary.




#27    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 36,975 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 18 June 2009 - 04:28 PM

Abramelin on Jun 18 2009, 07:13 PM, said:

And the parent Caledonian crows transmit what they learned to their offspring, even though their numbers are low. Something is happening there, despite the fact that these crows are not as numerous as you think is necessary.


Ok, let me put it to you this way, there is also a variety of European crows that has learned to drop stones into containers of liquids that they cannot reach with their beak to increase the level and drink. Why does the New Caledonia Crow not learn this skill? Because there is no communication between them. Why is there no communication between them? Because the number of individuals it too low to have an interaction (besides being a different species).

Experiences are not generally made on the same spot at the same time.  Japanese crows, that have no communication with European crows or Caledonia crows so far have not learned the stone skill nor the stick skill, for example.

For the New Caledonia Crow to learn the stone trick, it either learns it from another being, or it would have to make all the experiences spending most of the time European crows needed, never mind having all the same circumstances that led to the discovery in the first place.

Therefore we are back at the beginning, not enough individuals and not enough time.



A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#28    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,127 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 18 June 2009 - 05:00 PM

First, Questionmark,  I must say I wrong about New Caledonian crows being the only crow species capable of what they do:
http://madrabbitmedia.com/cms/index.php?sn=4


Then, it is simply not true that those other crows you mention are not capable of doing the stick or stone trick; they can, and they do. Why? Because they are damned smart.

But the New Caledonian crows have - let's say - perfected the stick trick, and transmit that knowledge to others.

Here some nice videos that show what I am talking about:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8029977.stm

And they seem to learn a new trick very quickly, AND, they transmit their new found knowledge to other members of their kind..... even though their numbers are relatively small.



Anyway, if I understand you correctly, then what you are trying to make me understand is that large numbers make for many experiences. A large number of indivuals is needed to be able to transmit a lot of experiences, so as not to have to invent the wheel over and over again. And that situation will cause for a faster development of a species, up to the point they are able to create a civilization, like we humans did.

Am I right so far?

But you appear to assume there were not enough individuals around on the Kerguelen, not enough to evolve into an intelligent species, not enough to create something like a civilization.
Well, untill we know what the surface of the Kerguelen actually looked like, we can not be sure if the circumstances were diverse and favorable enough to sustain a large (enough) population of this unknow species that might have lived there.





#29    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 36,975 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 18 June 2009 - 05:19 PM

Abramelin on Jun 18 2009, 08:00 PM, said:

First, Questionmark,  I must say I wrong about New Caledonian crows being the only crow species capable of what they do:
http://madrabbitmedia.com/cms/index.php?sn=4


Then, it is simply not true that those other crows you mention are not capable of doing the stick or stone trick; they can, and they do. Why? Because they are damned smart.

But the New Caledonian crows have - let's say - perfected the stick trick, and transmit that knowledge to others.

Here some nice videos that show what I am talking about:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8029977.stm

And they seem to learn a new trick very quickly, AND, they transmit their new found knowledge to other members of their kind..... even though their numbers are relatively small.



Anyway, if I understand you correctly, then what you are trying to make me understand is that large numbers make for many experiences. A large number of indivuals is needed to be able to transmit a lot of experiences, so as not to have to invent the wheel over and over again. And that situation will cause for a faster development of a species, up to the point they are able to create a civilization, like we humans did.

Am I right so far?

But you appear to assume there were not enough individuals around on the Kerguelen, not enough to evolve into an intelligent species, not enough to create something like a civilization.
Well, untill we know what the surface of the Kerguelen actually looked like, we can not be sure if the circumstances were diverse and favorable enough to sustain a large (enough) population of this unknow species that might have lived there.



Ok, let me put it this way, while they are capable they do not do it. After all, every human is capable of playing chess...yet most don't know the rules.

And your second assumption is more or less my position, civilization is created by exchange among individuals, or one learning from the other if you will.

And as for diverse and favorable, why do we find most evidence of the origin of civilization on the largest chunk of land this planet has (The Eurasian/African plates)? Because the possibility of focusing most experience is there where most individuals can get into contact with each other, even if through second and third persons.

That is why it is very unlikely that civilization could have sprung in a short time isolated from the rest of the planet. Given enough time it could happen anywhere.


A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#30    Leonardo

Leonardo

    Awake

  • Member
  • 17,241 posts
  • Joined:20 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

  • Hell is a guilty conscience

Posted 18 June 2009 - 07:14 PM

Abramelin on Jun 18 2009, 01:54 PM, said:

From one of the links - http://www.answers.com/topic/kerguelen-plateau - in the first post:

"The so-called Kerguelen continent might have had tropical flora and fauna about 50 million years ago. The Kerguelen continent finally sank 20 million years ago and is now 1 2 km below sea level. It has sedimentary rocks similar to the ones found in Australia and India, suggesting they were once connected."


Leonardo, I am not a geologist, so what I am saying is maybe bs, but it could be that the Kerguelen Plateau was indeed connected to India and Australia - like geologists think it once was - then it broke off and drifted away. Then it moved over a hotspot - or a hotspot moved under it, like the one under Yellowstone Park - and in time got overflown by lava.
Or it was indeed 'nothing but' a hotspot, creating it's own 'continent'.  In that last case, I think of Iceland or Hawaii, or even the Galapagos Archipelago.

And if it is indeed true that India, the Kerguelen and Australia were once connected, the Kerguelen might have had other life forms than just those that washed ashore or came flying, like for instance mammals and marsupials, so the flora and fauna might have been more like that on a 'real' continent.


I appreciate the evidence of similar types of rock means a likelihood of Kerguelen being in the same region as Australia and India some time in the past, but being in the same region doesn't mean connected by a land bridge. Kerguelen may have been connected via some sharing of continental shelf, but that would not allow your theory of land animal migration to occur.

India and Australia have been a long way apart for a very long time - about 225 million years ago they were separated by a small strait of the Tethys Sea. India has since been moving northwards at varying rates and collided with Asia around 50 million years ago. About the time Kerguelen was forming, India and Australia would have been thousands of kilometres apart - plenty of room for the Kerguelen LIP to form without having a land bridge connection to either continent.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users