990 replies to this topic

[Mattshark]

Widdekind, on 29 January 2010 - 02:49 PM, said:

"Giordiano Bruno's Law" is, in essence, that "what's here is there" (e.g., we have inhabited planets circling our star, so there are inhabited planets circling other stars as well).

Now, when we look out, across the cosmos, all our SETI-type projects see in the skies, is silence & noise.

So, upon the back of "Bruno's Law", this hypothesis predicts, that the SETI-type projects, of other sentient species, should see only silence & noise in their skies ("what we see here is what they see there").  Thus, it should be the case, that our sentient species is effectively invisible from a few thousand light-years [the expected distance to the next nearest of our Galaxy's ~30 sentient species].

Is this the case, or is our sentient species already quite conspicuous across such spatial distances ??  If we are conspicuous, that conspicuousness would be inconsistent w/ this hypothesis.


FURTHER OBSERVATION:

This hypothesis essentially says, that the commonly claimed "suicidal-ness" & "fratricidal-ness" of our sentient species, is not random, but rather imposed, by the advanced means of The Predator.  And, by application to the other sentient species which we "should" be seeing, the same is offered as answer to Fermi's Paradox ("we should've seen 'em by now").

Thus, this hypothesis asserts, that the answer to Fermi's Paradox, is the same, as the answer to the "suicidal fratricidal-ness" our sentient species.  So, if, at some time in the future, Fermi's Paradox is conclusively answered, then this hypothesis says, that answer, whatever it may be, must explain the self-destructive tendencies of humans, et vice versa.

You have very much entered the world of pseudo-science, mixing philosophy and science means it isn't science.
Bruno's law is nothing to do with science and most certainly is not a scientific law, it is conjecture and nothing more
Even if there is life out there, there is no guarantee that it is intelligent (in fact it is unlikely).
Second, hypothesis! That is not a hypothesis, that is blind speculation and pure abuse of science!

This story telling and has much scientific value as "spot the dog"

This is a science fiction and pseudo-science, nothing more, pure junk.

[Mattshark]

Mattshark, on 29 January 2010 - 06:43 PM, said:

You have very much entered the world of pseudo-science, mixing philosophy and science means it isn't science.
Bruno's law is nothing to do with science and most certainly is not a scientific law, it is conjecture and nothing more
Even if there is life out there, there is no guarantee that it is intelligent (in fact it is unlikely).
Second, hypothesis! That is not a hypothesis, that is blind speculation and pure abuse of science!

This story telling and has much scientific value as "spot the dog"

This is a science fiction and pseudo-science, nothing more, pure junk.

Just to add, have you even though of the energetic costs? 1kcal is 0.001163Kw per hour, so for a signal powerful enough to go that far, how much energy do you think is required? More that you could ever produce, that is how much, your idea is completely infeasible.

[crystal sage]

For a while I have been thinking that there is a link between what we see as angels and demons and psychic/ dimensional links with other worldy beings.
Some of those that say they Channel information from other worlds/ dimensions could be linking telepathically. There has been much research of late on Out of Body Experiences/ OBE's .. Near death experiences... etc, where the essence? of a person can travel outside the physical body. If that is the case, could not more advanced beings from other worlds travel/ connect in the same way?

The Church/ Vatican is now saying using modern understanding of ET/ spirit realms etc.. that many of the historical stories of angelic/ demonic interactions could well have been ET or interdimensional beings.

If a consciousness can leave the physical body and travel interdimensionally...   or locally.. ( there are many documented records of people who have been in accidents, experienced trauma's of sorts.. or during opperations, or when in coma's , of being able to have their 'consciousness' travel .. they  were able to  'visit' other places, enter other rooms, or travel great distances, , look on at the scene of the accident like a by stander and listen in on conversations.
These events and the accuracy of the observations,the conversations of the time, that they had no way of being witness to,  have later been verified by those involved.)  
Could not other 'consciousness' also try and momentarily settle in/ or connect with
these individuals?

Actually there is an interesting article about the need for Exorcisms rising...
My link


  Evidence of  Psychic warfare????


... and... Spiritual Warfare & the Problem of Evil
My link

Quote

Demons, Devil, ExorcismInterview: Andrew Calder: Dangers of the Paranormal


Full interview with ordained priest and exorcist, Father Andrew Calder about the realities and dangers he has seen firsthand involving ghost hunting and the paranormal. Father Calder is a paranormal investigator as well and discusses tricks, traps and dangers that the demonic and spirit world often use to trick newcomers as well as seasoned paranormal investigators. Over 9 minutes of Q&A advice for anyone who is interested in ghost hunting or becoming a paranormal investigator. For more information and more videos and interviews, go to MySpace.com/dangersoftheparanormal or DangersoftheParanormal.com

My link

Edited by crystal sage, 30 January 2010 - 02:58 PM.

[Mattshark]

Mattshark, on 29 January 2010 - 09:30 PM, said:

Just to add, have you even though of the energetic costs? 1kcal is 0.001163Kw per hour, so for a signal powerful enough to go that far, how much energy do you think is required? More that you could ever produce, that is how much, your idea is completely infeasible.

Just to put this into perspective and MW radio transmitter at 50kw is not that powerful but in kcal that would be 42992.26kcal. Gives some perspective on the absolute implausibility of this.

[Widdekind]

Widdekind, on 29 January 2010 - 02:49 PM, said:

FURTHER OBSERVATION:

This hypothesis essentially says, that the commonly claimed "suicidal-ness" & "fratricidal-ness" of our sentient species, is not random, but rather imposed, by the advanced means of The Predator.  And, by application to the other sentient species which we "should" be seeing, the same is offered as answer to Fermi's Paradox ("we should've seen 'em by now").

Thus, this hypothesis asserts, that the answer to Fermi's Paradox, is the same, as the answer to the "suicidal fratricidal-ness" our sentient species.  So, if, at some time in the future, Fermi's Paradox is conclusively answered, then this hypothesis says, that answer, whatever it may be, must explain the self-destructive tendencies of humans, et vice versa.

Summarizing still more simply, I'm saying the answer to Fermi's Paradox ("why aren't they here ?") is the same reason "why we aren't there" — specifically, species-suicidal stupidities induced by the advanced means of some sort of Predator.

[Widdekind]

Mattshark, on 29 January 2010 - 09:30 PM, said:

Just to add, have you even though of the energetic costs? 1kcal is 0.001163Kw per hour, so for a signal powerful enough to go that far, how much energy do you think is required? More that you could ever produce, that is how much, your idea is completely infeasible.

Thank you very much for pointing out that point.  According to PhysOrg:

The research team, supervised by Dr. Angelo Tremblay, measured the spontaneous food intake of 14 students after each of three tasks: relaxing in a sitting position, reading and summarizing a text, and completing a series of memory, attention, and vigilance tests on the computer. After 45 minutes at each activity, participants were invited to eat as much as they wanted from a buffet.  The researchers had already shown that each session of intellectual work requires only three calories more than the rest period.

Thus, even an apparently profound change in consciousness, from "resting" to "intellectual activity", requires around 4 Cal / hr, which equates to roughly 1 Watt (1.1163 W).  Thus, the whole human species could be made "mad", by mind manipulations, for less than 7 GW, comparable to common (Coal, Nuclear) Power Plants.  Some sort of "Soviet-style Psychotronics" type of technology, powered by an appropriate Power Plant, could conceivably be dedicated, by The Predator, to each Prey sentient species.  One could conceive of some sort of visual from the "Matrix" movies, where some sort of "Cyber-Dyne Systems" whirs away, waging "Star Wars" whilst silently sabotaging sentient species on the other side of space...

So, I don't see specifically where Energetic considerations become the prohibitive factor.  (If a whole world was wreckable w/ one paltry Power Plant — not using some sort of super 'Star Wars' type of technology, of course, but something completely conceivable, upon this planet, at its present period — then this world would have been wrecked already.)

[Widdekind]

As some sort of "Shamanic suggestion", as it were, I want to offer, for a visual, the dim-lit darkness, of a slowly spinning Asteroid Belt, orbiting about a distant star, somewhere on the other side of space...

Armed with Wikipedia, this Asteroid Belt could contain maybe a million objects bigger than about 1 km, each careening quietly around their central star...

And built upon these bodies, or perhaps inside the same, are some sorts of (Solar Powered ?) Psychotronics apparatuses, purring & whirring away, silently sabotaging sentient species across the Cosmos, coldly calculating the mental manipulations required to reduce, rubble-ize, and otherwise wreck their worlds, by inducing suitable suicidal stupidities...

As a "Shamanic suggestion" (as it were)...

And, maybe maintenance vessels ever-vigilantly on patrol, ply the belt bodies, preventing breakdowns (probably before they could occur, lest consciousness control suffer from interuption)...

And, maybe there might be a "master Mother-ship", centrally situated upon the proudest planetoid — possibly built up out of a band of the bigger bodies — overseeing, orchestrating, coordinating, & choreographing its over-arching super-strategies, for Cosmic conquest, thru subtle & sly Universal sabotage...

as the colonizing conquest flotillas fly across the unimaginably vast voids, of interstellar space, yet steadily towards their intended targeted star systems, in galaxies across the Cosmos...

http://www.imdb.com/...y/vi3031761177/

Edited by Widdekind, 31 January 2010 - 12:53 PM.

[Mattshark]

Widdekind, on 31 January 2010 - 11:41 AM, said:

Thank you very much for pointing out that point.  According to PhysOrg:

The research team, supervised by Dr. Angelo Tremblay, measured the spontaneous food intake of 14 students after each of three tasks: relaxing in a sitting position, reading and summarizing a text, and completing a series of memory, attention, and vigilance tests on the computer. After 45 minutes at each activity, participants were invited to eat as much as they wanted from a buffet.  The researchers had already shown that each session of intellectual work requires only three calories more than the rest period.

Thus, even an apparently profound change in consciousness, from "resting" to "intellectual activity", requires around 4 Cal / hr, which equates to roughly 1 Watt (1.1163 W).  Thus, the whole human species could be made "mad", by mind manipulations, for less than 7 GW, comparable to common (Coal, Nuclear) Power Plants.  Some sort of "Soviet-style Psychotronics" type of technology, powered by an appropriate Power Plant, could conceivably be dedicated, by The Predator, to each Prey sentient species.  One could conceive of some sort of visual from the "Matrix" movies, where some sort of "Cyber-Dyne Systems" whirs away, waging "Star Wars" whilst silently sabotaging sentient species on the other side of space...

So, I don't see specifically where Energetic considerations become the prohibitive factor.  (If a whole world was wreckable w/ one paltry Power Plant — not using some sort of super 'Star Wars' type of technology, of course, but something completely conceivable, upon this planet, at its present period — then this world would have been wrecked already.)

Because that is sitting and think and claiming that is evidence that you story could be energetically viable is a nonsense and untrue.

No, you don't because see were energetics come in because basic biology and real science don't come into you baseless claims. You are talking about sending a signal, and a signal that has to leave a planet and is directed and you use sitting and thinking as a comparison! That is plain ridiculous.

Making crap up as you go along doesn't make for either a hypothesis (as you need evidence in the first place for one of those) or anything that isn't a science fiction story.

[Widdekind]

crystal sage, on 30 January 2010 - 02:08 PM, said:

Actually there is an interesting article about the need for Exorcisms rising...
My link

The article includes the comment, commensurate w/ the "Willingness" debates above, that "Anyone can be possessed, but I think you really have to open yourself up to it. You have to be un-careful".

It also says:

There are specific signs that a person is possessed, Williams continued; "Three typical signs are speaking strange languages, a language a person's never had any access to whatsoever, and they just become fluent in it. And often accompanied by a change of voice that doesn't even sound like the person. Another is knowledge of secret things. For example, saying things that the person has no way of knowing. And a third is superhuman strength, the ability to lift objects and move things."

The first two such symptoms both basically amount to "enhanced knowledge".


You second equally excellent link includes the comment:

Then there are the not-unusual phenomena of the possessed demonstrating great physical strength, telepathic abilities, psychokinesis, & speaking a language the victim does not know.

Edited by Widdekind, 31 January 2010 - 01:36 PM.

[Widdekind]

Mattshark, on 31 January 2010 - 12:53 PM, said:

Because that is sitting and think and claiming that is evidence that you story could be energetically viable is a nonsense and untrue.

No, you don't because see were energetics come in because basic biology and real science don't come into you baseless claims. You are talking about sending a signal, and a signal that has to leave a planet and is directed and you use sitting and thinking as a comparison! That is plain ridiculous.

Making crap up as you go along doesn't make for either a hypothesis (as you need evidence in the first place for one of those) or anything that isn't a science fiction story.

Your understanding of Remote Viewing & purported Para-psychological abilities is very different from mine.  RVing & Telepathy do not require sending signals across space — it's all done "directly", in consciousness itself (somehow).  Thus, the only observable "footprint" of Para-psychological effects would be the ~1 W influences into the target's brain for mental manipulation, regardless of distance.

[Widdekind]

I want, once again, to give a visual, which, for some strangely strong sensation, seems possibly pertinent:

[Mattshark]

Widdekind, on 31 January 2010 - 01:18 PM, said:

Your understanding of Remote Viewing & purported Para-psychological abilities is very different from mine.  RVing & Telepathy do not require sending signals across space — it's all done "directly", in consciousness itself (somehow).  Thus, the only observable "footprint" of Para-psychological effects would be the ~1 W influences into the target's brain for mental manipulation, regardless of distance.

Do you mean CONJECTURED remote viewing. The only evidence was from people who were found to have terrible control or falsified results hence it is considered to be a joke in the scientific world (and para-psychology falls into similar categories)
Consciousness requires energy, it doesn't get to break the laws of the universe just so you can make a sci-fi story. Of course energy would be required, and lots of it. Your proposal is completely unsound.

Making stuff up as you go along doesn't give it any credence, remember that.

Edited by Mattshark, 31 January 2010 - 03:51 PM.

[Widdekind]

crystal sage, on 30 January 2010 - 02:08 PM, said:

For a while I have been thinking that there is a link between what we see as angels and demons and psychic/ dimensional links with other worldy beings.
Some of those that say they Channel information from other worlds/ dimensions could be linking telepathically. There has been much research of late on Out of Body Experiences/ OBE's .. Near death experiences... etc, where the essence? of a person can travel outside the physical body. If that is the case, could not more advanced beings from other worlds travel/ connect in the same way?

The Church/ Vatican is now saying using modern understanding of ET/ spirit realms etc.. that many of the historical stories of angelic/ demonic interactions could well have been ET or interdimensional beings.

Both said cited articles relate that "the possessed" apparently possess "super-human strength".  But the latter also lists "telekinesis" as a sign of the same.

Could these be connected ?  Could "super-human strength" actually represent some sort of "telekinetically enhanced" strength ?  (If I can lift 100 lbs w/ my muscles, and 10 lbs w/ my mind, then combining both might let me lift much more mass.)

[Widdekind]

Mattshark, on 31 January 2010 - 03:48 PM, said:

Do you mean CONJECTURED remote viewing. The only evidence was from people who were found to have terrible control or falsified results hence it is considered to be a joke in the scientific world (and para-psychology falls into similar categories)
Consciousness requires energy, it doesn't get to break the laws of the universe just so you can make a sci-fi story. Of course energy would be required, and lots of it. Your proposal is completely unsound.

I'm not so dismissively skeptical about RV & Para-Psychology as you strongly seem to be.  IF you accept such, THEN it opens up possibilities exceeding the scope of main-stream science.  And, as shown, in said cited article, human cognition requires roughly 1 Watt of energy.  If that 1 Watt could be projected Telepathically, via some type of "Telepathic possession" — w/o being beamed across the Cosmos — then the Energetic requirements wouldn't be so severe (since you escape 1 / R² losses).

As another sort of "Shamanic suggestion", perhaps The Predator would relegate "collapsed cultures" to its automated systems (consistent w/ this strange sense of "dark-dim-reduced-forlorn-frustrated-lonely-life"), but might maintain more active influence in "pre-collapse cultures" (those sentient species which have tripped the trigger, but before they finally fall).

[Mattshark]

Widdekind, on 01 February 2010 - 11:09 AM, said:

I'm not so dismissively skeptical about RV & Para-Psychology as you strongly seem to be.  IF you accept such, THEN it opens up possibilities exceeding the scope of main-stream science.  And, as shown, in said cited article, human cognition requires roughly 1 Watt of energy.  If that 1 Watt could be projected Telepathically, via some type of "Telepathic possession" — w/o being beamed across the Cosmos — then the Energetic requirements wouldn't be so severe (since you escape 1 / R² losses).

As another sort of "Shamanic suggestion", perhaps The Predator would relegate "collapsed cultures" to its automated systems (consistent w/ this strange sense of "dark-dim-reduced-forlorn-frustrated-lonely-life"), but might maintain more active influence in "pre-collapse cultures" (those sentient species which have tripped the trigger, but before they finally fall).

Well that is your problem, but since they had been caught red-handed cheating numerous times, had all their projects dropped, including government ones due to lack of evidence I would suggest you just want to believe rather than are willing to address evidence. But the reality is, you are still just making stuff up.

Cognition is limited to the mind, so that is a total irrelevance, this is about sending a signal, a signal strong enough to not only pass through the skull, but pass through the atmosphere, though space, back into atmosphere and back into a skull while being directed. 1 watt ain't coming close to the power needed.
There is nothing worse in science than mixing it with religion.

As I said, this is nothing more than a sci-fi story with no scientific base what so ever.