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The Roswell Incident: Hoax or Genuine ?


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#1    Saru

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Posted 03 May 2004 - 09:06 AM

This debate will be slightly different to the previous debates we've had. Rather than me picking two people to debate this topic, I will be giving the debaters the oppertunity to volunteer to take part.

The topic will be The Roswell Incident: Genuine or Hoax?.

If you would like to take part in this debate, please post a reply to this thread to register you're interest. Once we have two people, I will toss a coin to see which side of the arguement each of you will be arguing for.

Debaters who are already participating in a debate are still welcome to join in this one aswell. A couple of other debates like this will also be set up to give as many debaters the opportunity to participate in a debate as possible.

If you'd like to take part but have not registered you're interest in debating on the forum, please head along to the Debater's Thread first.

Thanks to Stillcrazy for suggesting this topic.  thumbsup.gif  


#2    Universal Absurdity

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Posted 03 May 2004 - 01:46 PM

*raises hand*

cant wait for this debate  thumbsup.gif  

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#3    Saru

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 11:03 AM

Ok we need one more person for this debate, anyone want to give it a shot ?


#4    Universal Absurdity

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 01:25 PM

how about you join the debate SaRuMaN? laugh.gif  

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#5    saucy

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 02:43 PM

I'll give this one a shot!



#6    Saru

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 04:12 PM

QUOTE
how about you join the debate SaRuMaN?


Thanks for the invite but I think i will observe for the time being.  laugh.gif

We now have both participants for this debate.

The results of the coin toss are that UniversalAbsurdity will be arguing for the genuinity of the Roswell Incident, while Saucy will be arguing that the Roswell Incident being one enormous hoax.

You can each make up to five posts, as well as an optional introductory post and conclusion.

If you do not wish to post an introduction, then please post a quick message instead to say that you are ready to begin.

Good luck  thumbsup.gif  


#7    saucy

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 04:20 PM

Roswell, a hoax?  I would seem to think that yes, Roswell is a hoax.  Something happened some fifty years ago and all of sudden it's a major government conspiracy.  It could have been nothing more than a weather balloon, as they claim, or a government test that went astray.  The fact that they don't want anyone near the sight doesn't mean they are hiding anything alien.  All government sites are forbidden from the public.  If they have something there that's extraterrestrial, then the government would be a whole lot more advanced than they are.  Also, everything could've been staged.  One person claims to see something, then the whole world goes crazy and starts to see things.  If aliens are so much more advanced, then they shouldn't have crashed on earth.  If the aliens didn't want us to find their ship, which would've been the ultimate proof of their existance, then they would've come after it.  


#8    Universal Absurdity

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 06:06 PM

Opening statement:

The roswell incident was, in no way, a hoax. Sightings of ufo's were at their peak prior to the widely reported crash. The original news article on the crash was made by a military reporter that had more to loose than gain by making the report.
The government's many excuses and general tendancy towards secrecy regarding this event show that they are not telling the truth about what happened on that day. They claim that the material recovered was nothing more than tinfoil and balsa wood with colorful bandaids on it that was used to monitor weather at high altitudes.Then they claim that it was actually a spy baloon they were testing to see if they could use it to spy on the russians. And finaly , the bodies, they claim that the bodies seen, were dummies used in high altitude tests that were dropped out of planes for military research. My question, If the military had a weather/spy baloon up in the air, and they were throwing dummies out of airplanes in the same area, what are the chances that they would both land in the exact same spot and fool a respected farmer, his wife, and 2 military personel into thinking that there was a crashed saucer , and an alien bodies?  

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#9    saucy

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 06:29 PM

Exactly, the UFO sightings were at their peak and some crazy old farmer decided to fool the government and the rest of the world by throwing together some foil and bandaids, like you said and made it look like a crash.  He certainly got the attention he wanted.  Besides, if there was credible proof that real alien bodies were taken from the sight, there would be no conspiracy.  


#10    Universal Absurdity

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Posted 07 May 2004 - 02:01 PM

                          Roswell Daily Record for July 8, 1947
The intelligence office of the 509th Bombardment group at Roswell Army Air Field announced at noon today, that the field has come into possession of a flying saucer.
According to information released by the department, over authority of Maj. J. A. Marcel, intelligence officer, the disk was recovered on a ranch in the Roswell vicinity, after an unidentified rancher had notified Sheriff Geo. Wilcox, here, that he had found the instrument on his premises.
Major Marcel and a detail from his department went to the ranch and recovered the disk, it was stated.
After the intelligence officer here had inspected the instrument it was flown to higher headquarters.
The intelligence office stated that no details of the saucer's construction or its appearance had been revealed.
Mr. and Mrs. Dan Wilmot apparently were the only persons in Roswell who saw what they thought was a flying disk.
They were sitting on their porch at 105 South Penn. last Wednesday night at about ten o'clock when a large glowing object zoomed out of the sky from the southeast, going in a northwesterly direction at a high rate of speed.
Wilmot called Mrs. Wilmot's attention to it and both ran down into the yard to watch. It was in sight less then a minute, perhaps 40 or 50 seconds, Wilmot estimated.
Wilmot said that it appeared to him to be about 1,500 feet high and going fast. He estimated between 400 and 500 miles per hour.
In appearance it looked oval in shape like two inverted saucers, faced mouth to mouth, or like two old type washbowls placed, together in the same fashion. The entire body glowed as though light were showing through from inside, though not like it would inside, though not like it would be if a light were merely underneath.
From where he stood Wilmot said that the object looked to be about 5 feet in size, and making allowance for the distance it was from town he figured that it must have been 15 to 20 feet in diameter, though this was just a guess.
Wilmot said that he heard no sound but that Mrs. Wilmot said she heard a swishing sound for a very short time.
The object came into view from the southeast and disappeared over the treetops in the general vicinity of six mile hill.
Wilmot, who is one of the most respected and reliable citizens in town, kept the story to himself hoping that someone else would come out and tell about having seen one, but finally today decided that he would go ahead and tell about it. The announcement that the RAAF was in possession of one came only a few minutes after he decided to release the details of what he had seen. Source

Just so we know exactly what it is that we're debating. US air force intelligence reported that, they recovered a DISK, only to go back on what they said a day later. It is my opinion that the government did not want to share their new toy.
The materials found (about 1/4 to 1/2 mile south of the crash) were a tinfoil like material, what looked like wax paper with flowers embedded in it, and an unknown metal that was extremely light and had purple glyphs on it. None of the materials could be damaged by us, the intelligence officer attempted to shoot a piece of the foil after it was discovered that it could not be ripped, burned, or crumpled (when crumpled it would un-crumple, leaving no creases). He found out that it could not be pierced with a bullet, by shooting a large piece and pulling it out of the ground.
The farmer that found the disk was brought into Wright-Patterson AFB for 'questioning' the day after this news article and was kept there for 3 days while the air force officials tried to get him to agree with them that it was not a ufo that he found.
I highly doubt that this was a crazy farmer trying to get attention.
QUOTE
if there was credible proof that real alien bodies were taken from the sight, there would be no conspiracy.
Any credible proof was promptly removed for 'national security' reasons. if they hid the craft from us why would they not hide the bodies?


The attatched picture is of one of the "i beams" that was made of the extremely light metal

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#11    saucy

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Posted 07 May 2004 - 03:43 PM

The military knows exactly what happened.  It's simple.  They were testing a new spy plane so they can spy on the Russians.  It managed to catch fire and land in the farm.  The "bodies" were nothing more than test pilots (dummies).  It can be proven because if the bodies were real, they wouldn't have been found in the perfect condition they were.  They would have been burnt up and charred, broken, battered and just in bad shape, expecially if the "witnesses" say they saw a ball of light going across the sky that hit the earth.  That's enough to damage a body.  Also, there were no first-hand witnesses.  Only second hand witnesses.  Another thing, it has been proven that the Roswell incident has never been classified.  The reason why the military was all over this is because of the new spy plane technology that crashed.  This was a dangerous time for the United States and they didn't want the information leaking out about their spy planes.  One man claims it's alien and the world believes it.  This whole incident is a hoax.  


#12    Universal Absurdity

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Posted 07 May 2004 - 04:32 PM

QUOTE
The military knows exactly what happened. It's simple. They were testing a new spy plane so they can spy on the Russians.

can you think of any reason why a 50+ year old spy plane would still be classified?
the government readily acknowledges the spy planes that are in use today, the uav's they used in afganistan, and stealth bombers for example.

QUOTE
if the bodies were real, they wouldn't have been found in the perfect condition they were. They would have been burnt up and charred, broken, battered and just in bad shape

There were 3 bodies found that were burnt up, charred, broken, battered...etc....
and one that was still barely alive. It was the next day when the disk was discovered, so who knows if the 3 died on impact, or from injuries. Also , who knows what the live one was doing, its possible that he carried/helped the others out of the craft (they did find the bodies outside of the craft).

QUOTE
Also, there were no first-hand witnesses. Only second hand witnesses.
no first hand witnesses to the actual crash? i would call a farmer and 2 air force personel reporting that they saw a CRASHED DISK, first hand witnesses.

QUOTE
Another thing, it has been proven that the Roswell incident has never been classified.
"We conducted an extensive search for government records related to the crash near Roswell. We examined a wide range of classified and unclassified documents dating from July 1947 through the 1950s." Source -General Accounting Office Report

The air force has never claimed that a secret spy plane is what crashed in roswell back in 1947. If it was why would they lie and say it was a spy baloon, or whatever it is they claim it to be? why not just say "oh that was one of our secret spy planes, dont tell russia."?  its because the cold war was over, they had nothing to hide from russia, why else would they let out the info that it was a SPY baloon? its because the cost of one secret getting out in public, was worth the gain from the next secret,A UFO with all kinds of new technology that the US did not want to share.

QUOTE
One man claims it's alien and the world believes it. This whole incident is a hoax. 
actually 3 men, the 2 air force officials that investigated the crash, and one farmer with nothing to gain from making the report.

it was no hoax, just a slopily slapped together cover up that no one believed.




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#13    saucy

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Posted 07 May 2004 - 05:21 PM

I know and admit when I've been beat.  I know that the debate isn't over, but I have nothing else.  You are a good debater, UniversalAbsurdity!  thumbsup.gif
I'll put you in a difficult debate to see how you work it.


#14    Universal Absurdity

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Posted 07 May 2004 - 05:29 PM

thank you saucy, i think we had a decent run with this debate.

i doubt tho, that you could find a debate as difficult as the hubble debate.

i will accept any side of any topic you choose.

perhaps this debate could be done again some time in the future.

it was fun

            

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#15    Saru

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Posted 07 May 2004 - 08:16 PM

and with that this debate comes to a close. Congratulations again to UniversalAbsurdity for his second debate win today.  thumbsup.gif

The full results for this debate are now posted in the debate results thread.





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