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General of all American Intelligence:


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#31    KRS-One

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 02:38 AM

Raptor Witness on Jul 7 2009, 02:40 PM, said:

I was once told by a military man, a man whom I believe to be truthful, that the U.S. army needs a war at least once a generation, in order to have seasoned officers capable of training the next batch of soldiers.  This is the way of the world.  It doesn't make it right, but it doesn't necessarily make it wrong.  After all, true freedom is not cheap nor easily obtained, and is very rare in history.

The need for a well trained army becomes even more crucial at the end of capitalist boom cycle.


Then this man is both a cruel monster and a complete idiot.  Tens of thousands, if not more people need to die every generation so that we can have a middling officer pool?  What kind of disgusting psychopath validates this with their moral system?


More on topic:

If the General of American Intelligence says this, it seems to me he's unfit for his post.  Perhaps Gen. Intelligence has gone AWOL.

Edited by KRS-One, 16 July 2009 - 02:38 AM.


#32    Q24

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 03:34 AM

Scott G on Jul 16 2009, 03:10 AM, said:

I see- draw a line on a picture with no evidence of a wing mark and presto, "evidence" of the wing is found? You'll forgive me if I'm more persuaded by the former head of all U.S. intelligence. I also found the following site very persuasive as well:
http://www.thepentacon.com/

The superimposed line is a guide as where to look.  If you follow that line you can see three clear gouges, deeper than the surrounding damage, in the masonry.  There are some close-up pictures in the official Pentagon report.  I completely forgive you for trusting in General Stubblebine but it just seems he did not have all of the evidence to hand before making his comments.

As indicated in my previous post there even appears space where the starboard engine impacted.

If you can address all the points I raised in my post #20 then I am quite open to changing my mind.

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#33    Agent X

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 04:50 AM

All I've gotta say is this:

http://www.freewebs.com/911guide/pentagon.htm

And to be blunt:

Quote

Here is quite a long list of agencies and organizations involved in the 9/11 investigations and aftermath operations. This gives a picture of how large investigations and operations took place. To say there were no investigations is false. Thanks to Mark Roberts for providing this list.


1,200 people who worked the flight 93 crash scene
40,000 people who worked the piles at Ground Zero
55 FBI Evidence Response Teams at Fresh Kills in New York
7,000+ FBI Agents
8,000+ people who worked the scene at the Pentagon
ACE Bermuda Insurance
AEMC Construction
AIG Insurance
Air Traffic Control System Command Center in Washington
Alexandria VA Fire & Rescue
Allianz Global Risks
American Airlines
American Concrete Institute
American Institute of Steel Construction
American Red Cross
Applied Biosystems Inc.
Applied Research Associates
Arlington County Emergency Medical Services
Arlington County Fire Department
Arlington County Sheriff's Department
Arlington VA Police Department
Armed Forces Institute of Pathology
Armed Forces Institute of Technology Federal Advisory Committee
ARUP USA
Atlantic Heydt Inc.
Bechtel
Berlin Fire Department
Big Apple Wrecking
Blanford & Co.
Bode Technology Group
Bovis Inc.
Building and Construction Trades Council
Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms
C-130H crew in D.C. & Shanksville
Cal Berkeley Engineering Dept.
California Incident Management Team
Carter Burgess Engineering
Celera Genomics
Centers for Disease Control
Central City Fire Department
Central Intelligence Agency
Cleveland Airport control tower
Columbia University Department of Civil Engineering and Engineering Mechanics
Congressional Joint Intelligence Committee
Consolidated Edison Company
Construction Technologies Laboratory
Controlled Demolitions Inc.
Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat
Counterterrorism and Security Group
CTL Engineering
D.H. Griffin Wrecking Co. Inc.
DeSimone Consulting Engineers
Dewhurst MacFarlane &Partners
DiSalvo Ericson Engineering
District of Columbia Fire & Rescue
DOD Honor Guard, Pentagon
D'Onofrio Construction
E-4B National Airborne Operations Center crews
Edwards and Kelcey Engineering
Engineering Systems, Inc.
Environmental protection Agency
Exponent Failure Analysis Associates
EYP Mission CriticalFacilities
Fairfax County Fire & Rescue
Falcon 20 crew in PA
Family members who received calls from victims on the planes
FBI Evidence Recovery Teams
Federal Aviation Administration
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Federal Emergency Management Agency
Federal Insurance Co.
FEMA 68-Person Urban Search and Rescue Teams: Arizona Task Force 1, California Task Force 1, California Task Force 3, California Task Force 7, Colorado Task Force 1, Fairfax Task Force 1, Florida Task Force 1, Florida Task Force 2, Maryland Task Force 1, Massachusetts Task Force 1, Metro Dade/Miami, Nebraska Task Force 1, New Mexico Task Force 1, New York Task Force 1, Pennsylvania Task Force 1, Tennessee Task Force 1, Texas Task Force 1, Utah Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 2, Washington Task Force 1
FEMA Disaster Field Office
FEMA Emergency Response Team
FEMA Urban Search and Rescue Incident Support Team-Advanced 3
Fire Department of New York
Fort Myer Fire Department
Fourteen teams of search dogs from Oregon
French Urban Search & Rescue Task Force
Friedens Volunteer Fire Department
Gateway Demolition
Gene Code Forensics
Georgia Tech Engineering Dept.
Gilsanz Murray Steficek LLP
GMAC Financing
Goldstein Associates Consulting Engineers
Guy Nordenson Associates
HAKS Engineers
Hampton-Clarke Inc.
HHS National Medical Response Team
HLW International Engineering
Hooversville Rescue Squad.
Hooversville Volunteer Fire Department
Hoy Structural Services
Hughes Associates, Inc
Hugo Neu Schnitzer East
hundreds of ironworkers, some of whom built the WTC
Hundreds of New York City Police Department Detectives
Industrial Risk Insurers
Institute for Civil Infrastructure Systems
International Association of Fire Chiefs
International Union of Operating Engineers Locals 14 & 15
J.R. Harris & Company
Karl Koch Steel Consulting Inc.
KCE Structural Engineers
Koch Skanska
Koutsoubis, Alonso Associates
Laboratory Corp. of America
Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory
Leslie E. Robertson Associates
LIRo Engineering
Listie Volunteer Fire Company
Lockwood Consulting
M.G. McLaren Engineering
Masonry Society
Mazzocchi Wrecking Inc.
Metal Management Northeast
Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit
Miami-Dade Urban Search & Rescue
Military District of Washington Search & Rescue Team
Montgomery County Fire & Rescue
Mueser Rutledge Consulting Engineers
Murray Engineering
Myriad Genetic Laboratories Inc.
National Center for Biotechnology Informatics
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
National Council of Structural Engineers Associations
National Disaster Medical System
National Emergency Numbering Association
National Fire Protection Association
National Guard in D.C., New York, and Pennsylvania
National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
National Institutes of Health Human Genome Research Institute
National Law Enforcement and Security Institute
National Military Command Center
National Reconnaissance Office
National Response Center
National Science Foundation Division of Civil and Mechanical Systems
National Security Agency
National Transportation Safety Board
National Wrecking
Natural Hazards Research and Applications Information Center
New Jersey State Police
New York City Department of Buildings WTC Task Force
New York City Department of Design and Construction
New York City Department of Environmental Protection
New York City Office of Emergency Management
New York City Office of the Chief Medical Examiner
New York City Police Department Aviation Unit
New York City Police Department Emergency Services Unit
New York Daily News
New York Flight Control Center
New York Newsday
New York Port Authority Construction Board
New York Port Authority Police
New York State Emergency Management Office
New York State Police Forensic Services
New York Times
North American Aerospace Defense Command
Northeast Air Defense Sector Commanders and crew
Numerous bomb-sniffing dogs
Numerous Forensic Anthropologists
Numerous Forensic Dentists
Numerous Forensic Pathologists
Numerous Forensic Radiologists
NuStats
Occupational Safety and Health Administration
Office of Emergency Preparedness
Office of Strategic Services
Orchid Cellmark
Parsons Brinckerhoff Engineering
Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection
Pennsylvania Department of Health and Human Services
Pennsylvania Region 13 Metropolitan Medical Response Group
Pennsylvania State Funeral Directors Association
Pennsylvania State Police
Pentagon Defense Protective Service
Pentagon Helicopter Crash Response Team
Pentagon Medical Staff
Pentagon Renovation Team
Phillips & Jordan, Inc.
Port of New York and New Jersey Authority
Pro-Safety Services
Protec
Public Entity Risk Institute
Purdue University Engineering Dept.
Robert Silman Associates Structural Engineers
Rolf Jensen & Associates, Inc
Rosenwasser/Grossman Consulting Engineers
Royal SunAlliance/Royal Indemnity
SACE Prime Power Assessment Teams
SACE Structural Safety Engineers and Debris Planning and Response Teams
Salvation Army Disaster Services
several EPA Hazmat Teams
several FBI Hazmat Teams
several Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams
several Federal Disaster Mortuary (DMORT) Teams
Severud Associates Consulting Engineers
Shanksville Volunteer Fire Company
Silverstein Properties
Simpson Gumpertz & Heger Engineers
Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP
Skilling Ward Magnusson Barkshire
Society of Fire Protection Engineers
Somerset Ambulance Association
Somerset County Coroner's Office
Somerset County Emergency Management Agency
Somerset Volunteer Fire Department
St. Paul/Travelers Insurance
State of Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency
Stoystown Volunteer Fire Company
Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers (SEI/ASCE)
Structural Engineers Association of New York
Superstructures Engineering
Swiss Re America Insurance
Telephone operators who took calls from passengers in the hijacked planes
Teng & Associates
Thornton-Tomasetti Group, Inc.
TIG Insurance
Tokio Marine & Fire
Transportation Safety Administration
Tully Construction
Twin City Fire Insurance
Tylk Gustafson Reckers Wilson Andrews Engineering
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
Underwriters Laboratories
Union Wrecking
United Airlines
United States Air National Guard
United States Fire Administration
United States Secret Service
United Steelworkers of America
University of Sheffield Fire Engineering Research
US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach Fairfax County and Montgomery County
US ArmyÂ’s Communications-Electronics Command
US Department of Defense
US Department of Justice
US Department of State
Virginia Beach Fire Department
Virginia Department of Emergency Management
Virginia State Police
Vollmer Associates Engineers
Washington Post
Weeks Marine
Weidlinger Associates
Weiskopf & Pickworth Engineering
Westmoreland County Emergency Management Agency
Whitney Contracting
Willis Group Holdings
WJE Structural Engineers
Worcester Polytechnic Institute
World Trade Center security staff
XL Insurance
Yonkers Contracting
York International
Zurich Financial
Zurich Re Risk Engineering
9/11 Commission & Staff
The Congressional Joint Inquiry on 9/11
Zacharias Moussaoui Prosecution Team


http://www.freewebs.com/911guide/911investigators.htm

Which is a hell of a lot of people to be in on this 911 conspiracy ****.

And of course the typical truther response is "it was all shoddy investigation and therefore irrelevant to the truth".



Edited by Agent X, 16 July 2009 - 04:55 AM.

Posted Image

#34    Scott G

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 01:49 PM

mrbusdriver on Jul 15 2009, 10:37 PM, said:

Uh, there is no such thing as "head of all US Intelligence"...there are many intel organizations, military and civilian, and many heads.

This General was an Army intel guy.


Listening to what Major General Stubblebine actually said, it seems clear that the person who put up that youtube video misinterpreted what Stubblebine said. Stubblebine only said that he was head of "all of the army's strategy intelligence forces around the world." That's still no small potatoes.


Edited by Scott G, 16 July 2009 - 01:52 PM.


#35    Scott G

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 02:03 PM

Q24 on Jul 15 2009, 11:34 PM, said:

The superimposed line is a guide as where to look.  If you follow that line you can see three clear gouges, deeper than the surrounding damage, in the masonry.


Sorry, but I don't see your alleged 3 clear gouges. Neither did Stubblebine, who I'm guessing has a little more experience in such things than you.


Q24 on Jul 15 2009, 11:34 PM, said:

There are some close-up pictures in the official Pentagon report.


I haven't studied the whole pentagon issue as much as I have the WTC buildings and the official reports on that issue. However, I have seen a fair amount of material that thepentacon.com has presented, and I'm quite persuaded that no plane hit the pentagon.


Q24 on Jul 15 2009, 11:34 PM, said:

I completely forgive you for trusting in General Stubblebine but it just seems he did not have all of the evidence to hand before making his comments.


We're dealing in speculation now. Never a good sign :-). As I've mentioned, the pentagon isn't my forte, but I definitely recommend you see a bit of thepentacon.com's material.


Q24 on Jul 15 2009, 11:34 PM, said:

As indicated in my previous post there even appears space where the starboard engine impacted.


Again forgive me for presuming, but I saw that picture and the fit seemed just a bit.. tight. Not to mention far too low down for the plane, even assuming that the official trajectory was correct. thepentacon.com concludes that a plane did fly towards the pentagon, but it came in from a different trajectory than then official story's and it didn't crash into it; it flew over it. They even have a witness who was at the pentagon who -saw- a plane fly over it. I believe he was pentagon staff though, and he's now refused to make any further comments.


Q24 on Jul 15 2009, 11:34 PM, said:

If you can address all the points I raised in my post #20 then I am quite open to changing my mind.


So many points, so little time, lol :-). I may get around to it :-p.

Edited by Scott G, 16 July 2009 - 02:04 PM.


#36    The Silver Thong

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 02:24 PM

muddyfrog on Jul 11 2009, 12:14 AM, said:

as I have already said 100% there was an airplane that hit the pentagon end of story haha...

If any of you guys recognize my name you will know who  I usually side with, but in this case I have inside info that an airplane did in fact hit the pentagon.  

That is unless my Army buds are lacking big time...


-Muddy



True there were eye witnesses and most said they saw a plane and I believe them. However the eye witness reports don't quite jive with the official report.  According to eye witness's the plane paced on the north side of the citgo gas station not the south hence not hitting any street lights. That I find odd.


Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#37    Scott G

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 04:12 PM

Agent X on Jul 16 2009, 12:50 AM, said:



The thing is, your'e not saying that; the site you're linking to is. I'll be perfectly happy to go over any individual point they make, but I'm not about to create a site to debunk all their points.


QUOTE (Agent X)
And to be blunt:
[list of agencies that took part in the 9/11 investigation]

http://www.freewebs.com/911guide/911investigators.htm

Which is a hell of a lot of people to be in on this 911 conspiracy ****.


Even assuming that all of those agencies played a significant part in the 9/11 investigation, you haven't presented any evidence that all of the individuals, or even the agencies themselves, were fully or even partially persuaded that the official story is true. As you may know, to this day, the FBI has never charged Osama Bin Laden with masterminding 9/11. The reason? They specifically stated that they simply didn't have enough evidence to do so. Apparently the official story now accusses another member of Al Qaeda of masterminding it, someone who they apparently tortured into confessing whatever the Bush Administration pleased. I, for one, am happy that the Bush Administration has finally run its course and we can pick up the pieces from here.


QUOTE (Agent X)
And of course the typical truther response is "it was all shoddy investigation and therefore irrelevant to the truth".


What you apparently are unaware of is the fact that many people who have worked and even continue to work for the government question or outright disbelieve the official story. I suggest you take a look at the site Patriots Question 9/11. Or were you already aware that:
41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11: "Terribly Flawed," "Laced with Contradictions," "a Joke," "a Cover-up" :
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/Counter...sm_Veterans.pdf

Twenty-five U.S. Military Officers Challenge Official Account of 9/11 – Official Account of 9/11 “Impossible”, “A Bunch of Hogwash”, “Total B.S.”, “Ludicrous”, “A Well-Organized Cover-up”, “A White-Washed Farce”:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_al...ve_u_s__mil.htm

Eight U.S. State Department Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11 – Official Account of 9/11 "Flawed", "Absurd", "Totally Inadequate", "a Cover-up":
http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_al...__state_dep.htm

Seven Senior Federal Engineers and Scientists Call for New 9/11 Investigation – Official Account of 9/11 "Impossible", "Hogwash", "Fatally Flawed":
http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_al...ior_federal.htm

And even...
Eight Senior Republican Administration Appointees Challenge Official Account of 9/11 – "Not Possible", "a Whitewash", "False":
http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_al...ior_republi.htm

Ever heard of Able Danger? Vice President Joe Biden (then only a presidential candidate),   while stating that he didn't really know anything concerning the case of whistleblower Sibel Edmonds, said some rather interesting things in the following video clip concerning Able Danger:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu-FtNOhqWQ

In case you can't see video, this is what was said:
Questioner:  Sir, do you think everything was uncovered with the Able Danger program?
Biden: No, there's more, but it's going to take time, you're going to find that there's a whole lot of things across the board that are going to get uncovered.

Edited by Scott G, 16 July 2009 - 04:38 PM.


#38    Q24

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 06:27 PM

Scott G on Jul 16 2009, 03:03 PM, said:

Sorry, but I don't see your alleged 3 clear gouges. Neither did Stubblebine, who I'm guessing has a little more experience in such things than you.

linked-image

Is this picture, showing two of the gouges, better?


Scott G on Jul 16 2009, 03:03 PM, said:

I haven't studied the whole pentagon issue as much as I have the WTC buildings and the official reports on that issue. However, I have seen a fair amount of material that thepentacon.com has presented, and I'm quite persuaded that no plane hit the pentagon.

Some time ago I also had large doubts about an airliner at the Pentagon but having spent time to thoroughly think through all the pieces I’m quite irritated that I ever had that view.  If you believe no plane impacted the Pentagon then you must be thinking along the lines of a missile or planted explosives.  What evidence does thepentacon.com present specifically in favour of such scenarios?


Scott G on Jul 16 2009, 03:03 PM, said:

We're dealing in speculation now. Never a good sign :-). As I've mentioned, the pentagon isn't my forte, but I definitely recommend you see a bit of thepentacon.com's material.

It would be speculation either way to believe that General Stubblebine did or did not have all of the photographic evidence available to him.  You assume he viewed the photographs I am showing you and I suggest he did not.  As a way to explain the wing impact marks on the Pentagon yet not doubt Stubblebine’s character, I think my assumption makes sense.


Scott G on Jul 16 2009, 03:03 PM, said:

Again forgive me for presuming, but I saw that picture and the fit seemed just a bit.. tight. Not to mention far too low down for the plane, even assuming that the official trajectory was correct.

Oh yes definitely – the plane was so low that it was nearly scraping the ground.  This is one of the reasons I find manual piloting to be unlikely.  Either the airliner on that flight path was extremely lucky not to crash before hitting the Pentagon or it was very well co-ordinated, ie GPS autopilot.


Scott G on Jul 16 2009, 03:03 PM, said:

So many points, so little time, lol :-). I may get around to it :-p.

Ok but if you want to claim there was no plane then it is very important to address those points.

There is no sense in a theory that hides from half of the facts.


QUOTE (The Silver Thong @ Jul 16 2009, 03:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
True there were eye witnesses and most said they saw a plane and I believe them. However the eye witness reports don't quite jive with the official report.  According to eye witness's the plane paced on the north side of the citgo gas station not the south hence not hitting any street lights. That I find odd.

None of this really comes into the ‘no plane’ argument but it did frustrate me for a long time – it just didn’t make sense.

There was definitely a plane on the official approach path to the Pentagon as the light poles were knocked down and there are many witnesses and photographic evidence to this, not forgetting the impact damage which matched with the official approach.  Then there are all these witnesses, quite credible at that, claiming they saw an aircraft approach from the North side of the Citgo station, and I believe them.

It’s quite simple then - we have two planes in the area and very close proximity to each other.  One is obviously the alleged Flight 77, so we just need to identify the other.

It happens that a Hercules C-130 had departed Andrews AFB at around 9:30am and was asked to intercept the assumed Flight 77 that ATC were tracking.  The pilot of the C-130, Lt. Col. Steve O’Brien, said: -

“When air traffic control asked me if we had him [Flight 77] in sight, I told him that was an understatement - by then, he had pretty much filled our windscreen.  Then he made a pretty aggressive turn so he was moving right in front of us, a mile and a half, two miles away.  I said we had him in sight, then the controller asked me what kind of plane it was.  That caught us up, because normally they have all that information.  The controller didn’t seem to know anything.  They told us to turn and follow that aircraft—in 20 plus years of flying, I’ve never been asked to do something like that.”

So we now have a large cargo plane following very close behind a passenger airliner on approximately the same flight path.  I’m sure you know where I’m going with this but to push the point further we have another witness, Kelly Knowles, who said she saw a “second plane that seemed to be chasing the first [pass] over at a slightly different angle.”

To be completely clear, the witnesses who saw an aircraft to the North of the Citgo station were viewing the C-130.  If they only glanced at its location (there’s no reason they would have been alarmed by its presence at this point) and then looked up again when the sound of the alleged Flight 77 became audible before impact, they could quite easily confuse the plane they saw for the one that went into the Pentagon.  This also explains the witness who saw an aircraft depart from the Pentagon immediately after the impact – they were again viewing the C-130.

Sources for all of this information and more are here.

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#39    merril

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 07:18 AM

Albert Stubblebine talking about his belief in flying saucers and alien machines on Mars (1992!)

Somebody was saying???


And, as for the apparent sudden conversion of Q24 to anything approaching the realistic historical facts of 9-11...we have to wait on that one.

These images from Unreleased Pentagon 9-11 Footage and 9-11 "Mystery Plane" Closeup
demonstrate where the C-130 was, and confirms what the pilot was reported to have said (F77 became lost in the haze to the C-130 pilots view, prior to crashing). Looks like about 700-800 ft. alt., maybe.

The pilot said he flew through the smoke once, and was vectored out of the area by ATC.

So, there is no mistaking him for F77; and, no F77 flew north of the Citgo. Persons stating they saw AA77 fly north of the Citgo, as witnesses, are not very reliable (distracted at the time on 9-11- pumping gas and tending a police dog inside a vehicle, for example).

Also, persons seem to be flattered by the CIT interview and fall into line for a "9-11 video". Proving how poor is the stale testimony regarding a spilt second shocking event, years later with persons of average IQ.


linked-image

linked-image

linked-image

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linked-image

Edited by merril, 17 July 2009 - 07:50 AM.


#40    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 08:14 AM

Albert "Bert" Stubblebine III? Wasn't he the one behind Project Stargate and similar wackiness? I'm not sure how, um, reliable he is.

hmm.gif

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#41    Br Cornelius

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 10:06 AM

Quote

Albert "Bert" Stubblebine III? Wasn't he the one behind Project Stargate and similar wackiness? I'm not sure how, um, reliable he is.


The Military obviously took it a bit more seriously than you do.

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#42    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 12:06 PM

If the Military did take it seriously, rather than just indulging the more left-field ideas of a few visionaries, because there was more money in the black budget than they knew what to do with. And if they did, doesn't that say more than words can about the judgement of the brass hats in the US Army's Wacky Projects Department?

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#43    Scott G

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 12:36 PM

Q24 on Jul 16 2009, 02:27 PM, said:

Scott G on Jul 16 2009, 03:03 PM)


Sorry, but I don't see your alleged 3 clear gouges. Neither did Stubblebine, who I'm guessing has a little more experience in such things than you.


linked-image

Is this picture, showing two of the gouges, better?


It shows damage, but I see no evidence that it was caused by a plane wing. Perhaps more importantly, I see no evidence of a wing. Clearly, I think it would be better if you were asking this question to Stubbl, said:


Sorry, but I don't see your alleged 3 clear gouges. Neither did Stubblebine, who I'm guessing has a little more experience in such things than you.


linked-image

Is this picture, showing two of the gouges, better?


It shows damage, but I see no evidence that it was caused by a plane wing. Perhaps more importantly, I see no evidence of a wing. Clearly, I think it would be better if you were asking this question to Stubblebine; I'm not an expert on such things. However, there is much more evidence besides whether some of the damage was caused by an apparently missing wing. I'll get into that in my next post...


#44    Scott G

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 12:51 PM

Q24 on Jul 16 2009, 02:27 PM, said:

Scott G on Jul 16 2009, 03:03 PM)


I haven't studied the whole pentagon issue as much as I have the WTC buildings and the official reports on that issue. However, I have seen a fair amount of material that thepentacon.com has presented, and I'm quite persuaded that no plane hit the pentagon.


Some time ago I also had large doubts about an airliner at the Pentagon but having spent time to thoroughly think through all the pieces I’m quite irritated that I ever had that view.  If you believe no plane impacted the Pentagon then you must be thinking along the lines of a missile or planted explosives.  What evidence does thepentacon.com present specifically in favour of such scenarios?


I've seen their past videos and have begun to see their new video. Why not see it for yourself? Within the first few minutes, there are points enough I believe:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5296595694237574426, said:


I haven't studied the whole pentagon issue as much as I have the WTC buildings and the official reports on that issue. However, I have seen a fair amount of material that thepentacon.com has presented, and I'm quite persuaded that no plane hit the pentagon.


Some time ago I also had large doubts about an airliner at the Pentagon but having spent time to thoroughly think through all the pieces I’m quite irritated that I ever had that view.  If you believe no plane impacted the Pentagon then you must be thinking along the lines of a missile or planted explosives.  What evidence does thepentacon.com present specifically in favour of such scenarios?


I've seen their past videos and have begun to see their new video. Why not see it for yourself? Within the first few minutes, there are points enough I believe:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5296595694237574426

You may also want to see this trailer from another documentary:
http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm



#45    Scott G

Scott G

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 01:16 PM

Q24 on Jul 16 2009, 02:27 PM, said:

Scott G on Jul 16 2009, 03:03 PM)


We're dealing in speculation now. Never a good sign :-). As I've mentioned, the pentagon isn't my forte, but I definitely recommend you see a bit of thepentacon.com's material.


It would be speculation either way to believe that General Stubblebine did or did not have all of the photographic evidence available to him.


I was never claiming he had all of the photographic evidence. However, if the head of all army intelligence states that, given the evidence he -did- have, it's clear that a plane didn't hit the pentagon, I'm inclined to take his word seriously. I think it highly unlikely that the head of so many intelligence organizations would make a statement with such enormous implications lightly.


Q24 on Jul 16 2009, 02:27 PM, said:


We're dealing in speculation now. Never a good sign :-). As I've mentioned, the pentagon isn't my forte, but I definitely recommend you see a bit of thepentacon.com's material.


It would be speculation either way to believe that General Stubblebine did or did not have all of the photographic evidence available to him.


I was never claiming he had all of the photographic evidence. However, if the head of all army intelligence states that, given the evidence he -did- have, it's clear that a plane didn't hit the pentagon, I'm inclined to take his word seriously. I think it highly unlikely that the head of so many intelligence organizations would make a statement with such enormous implications lightly.


QUOTE (Q24 on Jul 16 2009, 02:27 PM, said:


We're dealing in speculation now. Never a good sign :-). As I've mentioned, the pentagon isn't my forte, but I definitely recommend you see a bit of thepentacon.com's material.


It would be speculation either way to believe that General Stubblebine did or did not have all of the photographic evidence available to him.
path was extremely lucky not to crash before hitting the Pentagon or it was very well co-ordinated, ie GPS autopilot.


Or the plane never crashed into the pentagon at all, instead flying over it as explosions rocked the pentagon, making it -look- like a plane crashed into the pentagon to all but one or at most a handful of observers that were close enough to witness the deception.

Edited by Scott G, 17 July 2009 - 01:16 PM.



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