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More Best Evidence for aliens


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#25231    skyeagle409

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 02:32 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 11 March 2011 - 12:50 AM, said:

:tu:

1948, a whole year later :D

You good sir, are indeed the icing on any cake.

And the substance for that matter. Another great call.

:nw:

Hate to throw some mud on that cake, but the CI boys had said, that there was a recovery of strange material on the Foster ranch and they continued to say  so decades later.. Roger and out!!

Quote


. SGT. LEWIS (BILL) RICKETT

[Bill Rickett was with the Counter Intelligence Corps based in Roswell, part of Jesse Marcel's staff, and an assistant to CICman Sheridan Cavitt.  He had an opportunity to examine some of the wreckage recovered from the Foster (Mac Brazel's) Ranch.  He also said he escorted Dr Lincoln LaPaz, a meteor expert from the New Mexico Institute of Meteoritics, on a tour of the crash site and the surrounding area in September, 1947, in an attempt to reconstruct the speed and trajectory of the crash object.]

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Edited by skyeagle409, 11 March 2011 - 02:39 AM.

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#25232    psyche101

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 02:35 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 11 March 2011 - 02:19 AM, said:

Doesn't fly!

Congressman Schiff had indicated the Air Force was blocking his Roswell investigation and cited that fact in the January 14, 1994 edition of the Washington  Post, and he cited that it was another government cover-up,and it is all there is [/b]black and white, and I have posted the reference to that newspaper article as well.
[/color][/size]


You just do nopt get it do you.

What the heck does Schiffs erroneous claim, that he could not make if he released the final report, have to do with this?

How did the USAF know 40 years ago that Schiff was going to request these documents that were destroyed, and it seems quite legitimately? That is when the said documents were supposedly destroyed? That is the whine you are referring to is it not?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#25233    skyeagle409

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 02:45 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 11 March 2011 - 02:31 AM, said:


This changes nothing, you are relying on hearsay to make these conclusions. Hardly what could be considered research.

Why of course it changes nothing because Brazel discovered the debris field in July, not on June 4, which simply proves my point that the clustered service balloon contraption never landed on the Foster ranch and besides, highly experienced mililtary personnel would not have mistaken a downed balloon as a flying saucer anyway.

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#25234    skyeagle409

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 02:50 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 11 March 2011 - 02:35 AM, said:

You just do nopt get it do you.

What the heck does Schiffs erroneous claim, that he could not make if he released the final report, have to do with this?

Congressman Schiff was right on the money, as was written in that Washington Post article. Nothing difficult to understand.

Quote

How did the USAF know 40 years ago that Schiff was going to request these documents that were destroyed, and it seems quite legitimately? That is when the said documents were supposedly destroyed? That is the whine you are referring to is it not?

You missed the whole point. The Roswell cover-up was initiatied shortly after the news story that a flying saucer was captured. That weather balloon story began the cover-up, and to remove any problems, records had to be removed in order to hide details of what was occurring during the incident, and afteward. People might get suspicious if they knew a lot of flights were heading for W-P all of a sudden.

Quote

SGT. ROBERT SMITH

(Robert Smith was a member of the First Air Transport Unit, which operated Douglas C-54 Skymaster four-engine cargo planes out of the Roswell AAF.)


(F&B, interviewed 1991)  "All I saw was a little piece of material.  You could crumple it up, let it come out.  You couldn't crease it.  One of our people put it in his pocket.  The piece of debris I saw was two to three inches square.  It was jagged.  When you crumpled it up, it then laid back out.  And when it did, it kind of crackled, making a sound like cellophane.  It crackled when it was let out.  There were no creases.  ...The sergeant who had the piece of material said [it was like] the material in the crates."


(Pflock, FUFOR, affidavit 10/10/91) "All I saw was a little piece of material.  The piece of debris I saw was two-to-three inches square.  It was jagged.  When you crumpled it up, it then laid back out; and when it did, it kind of crackled, making a sound like cellophane, and it crackled when it was let out.  There were no creases.

________________________________________________________

BRIG.-GENERAL ARTHUR EXON

[Exon was stationed at Wright Field at the time of the crash.  From 1964-69 he was the Commanding Officer of Wright-Patterson AFB, where crash material was taken in 1947.  He said he never saw the actual crash material, but was told the result of testing by other personnel involved.]


(R&S2)  "We heard the material was coming to Wright Field.  [Testing was done in the various labs.]  Everything from chemical analysis, stress tests, compression tests, flexing.  It was brought into our material evaluation labs.  I don't know how it arrived, but the boys who tested it said it was very unusual."

.

[RUCU] "...couldn't be easily ripped or changed ...you could change it.  You could wad it up, you could change the shape, but it was still there and ... there were other parts of it that were very thin but awfully strong and couldn't be dented with heavy hammers and stuff like that... which at the time were causing some people some concern... again, say it was a shape of some kind, you could grab this end and bend it, but it would come right back.  It was flexible to a degree."


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Edited by skyeagle409, 11 March 2011 - 03:03 AM.

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#25235    psyche101

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 02:50 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 11 March 2011 - 02:28 AM, said:

No it wasn't legit at all. Permanent records are just that. permanent.




Do not know much about legals do you. Have you ever worked in, or had much contact with an office environment. Even permanent records are usually deleted after 60 years.

Now please explain Seiberts letter to the GAO which includes:

Quote

That regulations in existence at the time the records were apparently destroyed clearly state that records "accumulated at or below wing level will be scheduled as one item and destroyed after two years.... It is clear from the forgoing that record management officials, if acting in accordance with agency regulations then in force, should have destroyed the records in question rather than transfer them to St. Louis."

Are you saying that the The Chief Archivist of the National Personnel Records Center is wrong are you? He says the record destruction is legit, and that is obviously why Schiff held back the final report, and released the second draft instead. Rather underhanded wouldn't you say? And you are trying to say do not trust the USAF, when it a polotician doing the covering up, and remember it was the USAF who saw fit to employ you according to yourself. I hope I never have an employee like that.


View Postskyeagle409, on 11 March 2011 - 02:28 AM, said:

The college boys knew full well that they were not to launch any Mogul balloon trains during cloudy days that might present a hazard to the fly boys at the base during IFR operations on cloudy days, which is why it is all there in black and white, that the flight was canceled due to clouds on June 4, 1947. That pertained to a Mogul balloon train, not a clustered service balloon flight which was not the balloon train the Air Force had said in its report.


Then where am I getting the line I keep quoting to you that says THAT flight was a service flight? You know this one, or are you pretending you did not see it, or that it does not exist??

Quote

The NYU balloon flights were listed sequentially in their reports (i.e., A, B, or 1,5, 6, 7, 8, 10 .), yet gaps existed for Flights 2-4 and Flight 9. The interview with Professor Moore indicated that these gaps were the unlogged “service flights.”


Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#25236    bmk1245

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 03:04 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 11 March 2011 - 02:23 AM, said:

That is not how the craft crashed on the Foster ranch, so in that regards, that photo has no bearing on the Roswell incident. The nature of the debris field discovered in July on the Foster ranch proves my point.
Of course its not, its just an example of how our "not that super-duper material" survived hard (very unfortunate) crash, while "super-duper material" shredded to pieces, still some goo/glued material inside...

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#25237    skyeagle409

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 03:06 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 11 March 2011 - 02:50 AM, said:

Do not know much about legals do you. Have you ever worked in, or had much contact with an office environment. Even permanent records are usually deleted after 60 years.

Whoever  destroyed  those records, did so illegally and  deliberately. There are certain procedures to be followed when destroying classified materials.

Edited by skyeagle409, 11 March 2011 - 03:14 AM.

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#25238    skyeagle409

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 03:10 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 11 March 2011 - 02:50 AM, said:

The NYU balloon flights were listed sequentially in their reports (i.e., A, B, or 1,5, 6, 7, 8, 10 .), yet gaps existed for Flights 2-4 and Flight 9. The interview with Professor Moore indicated that these gaps were the unlogged "service flights."


Doesn't make any difference at, and it seems you missed some important points before, so here they are again.

*  No wreckage on the Foster ranch in June

*  The clustered service balloon flight was not a Mogul balloon train the Air Force had said in its 1994 Roswell report, which was a false to begin with anyway.

*  The first successful Mogul balloon flight didn't occur until June 5, and was not  recovered on the Foster ranch.

* Brazel didn't discover any wreckage until July.

* The counter-intelligence folks had indicated that the material recovered on the Foster ranch, exhibited strange properties.





Edited by skyeagle409, 11 March 2011 - 03:12 AM.

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#25239    lost_shaman

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 03:22 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 11 March 2011 - 02:31 AM, said:


And why would a CI person do that? Just a little bored and wanted to liven things up with a court martial or similar?


Of course they wouldn't. Heck the Air Force even had to declassify the failed MOGUL project, by their argument, so that people would feel comfortable discussing it!

Sky believes a CI operation directed towards the American Press and Public would have been declassified automatically decades ago. Showing Sky has basically no clue.

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#25240    lost_shaman

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 03:34 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 11 March 2011 - 02:50 AM, said:

People might get suspicious if they knew a lot of flights were heading for W-P all of a sudden.

NO people would not! This is just another of your imaginations that means nothing to anyone but yourself. This was reported in the Press July 8th! No member of the Press ever reported any strange Air Activity in New Mexico or at Wright Field. End of story.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

#25241    lost_shaman

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 03:43 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 11 March 2011 - 03:06 AM, said:

Whoever  destroyed  those records, did so illegally and  deliberately. There are certain procedures to be followed when destroying classified materials.


Even IF that's true my hypothesis explains this. It doesn't point to an "Alien Crash". For that matter there could be a number of reasons people destroy records nefariously.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

#25242    psyche101

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 05:00 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 11 March 2011 - 02:45 AM, said:

Why of course it changes nothing because Brazel discovered the debris field in July, not on June 4, which simply proves my point that the clustered service balloon contraption never landed on the Foster ranch and besides, highly experienced mililtary personnel would not have mistaken a downed balloon as a flying saucer anyway.


With the balloon being described as torn to shreds that works in OK, you are now using Randles argument, but that is well explained with Lost Shamans CI hypothesis. If they were told to keep to a cover story to get the press of their backs, sure they would, not like anyone is getting hurt is it? You do not consider that ET may be the cover story you think is real.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#25243    psyche101

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 05:08 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 11 March 2011 - 02:50 AM, said:

Congressman Schiff was right on the money, as was written in that Washington Post article. Nothing difficult to understand.

It would appear that Schiff is a fraud. I ask yet again, although I take it you cannot answer the question I keep posing to you. Not the first time is it? Funny how you go on about your list of 20 fallacies, imagine the list of questions posed to you that you have never answered.

Please explain why Schiff only released the second draft, and not the final conclusion, which trashes his claims.

Please explain why Seibert wrote that letter to the GAO if records were not supposed to have been destroyed.

The above two questions, and your inability to answer them tells us that Schiff was anything but on the money.

View Postskyeagle409, on 11 March 2011 - 02:50 AM, said:

You missed the whole point. The Roswell cover-up was initiatied shortly after the news story that a flying saucer was captured. That weather balloon story began the cover-up, and to remove any problems, records had to be removed in order to hide details of what was occurring during the incident, and afteward. People might get suspicious if they knew a lot of flights were heading for W-P all of a sudden.

And that is exactly the way one would remove reference to a CI operation the public is never to know about. Look at how the zealots react to information they should not be privy to, imagine the amount of hurt pride if it was revealed that a;ll these so called researchers - who cannot hold a candle to Lost Shaman - were proven to have been barking up the wrong tree since 1978 when Friedman made the case popular as an ET story.

And Schiff is saying this was deliberate to impede him? Come on. A deliberate act to impede an investigation 40 years later?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#25244    psyche101

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 05:15 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 11 March 2011 - 03:06 AM, said:

Whoever  destroyed  those records, did so illegally and  deliberately. There are certain procedures to be followed when destroying classified materials.


Not if you read the final draft of the report.

The GAO stated:

Quote

"A draft of this report was provided to DoD for comment....The Chief Archivist, National Personnel Records Center offered several comments clarifying matters dealing with records management. These comments have been incorporated into the final report where appropriate."

And the Chief Archivists viewpoint?

Quote

That regulations in existence at the time the records were apparently destroyed clearly state that records "accumulated at or below wing level  will be scheduled as one item and destroyed after two years.... It is clear from the forgoing that record management officials, if acting in accordance with agency regulations then in force, should have destroyed the records in question rather than transfer them to St. Louis."
(Seibert's emphasis in letter to the GAO)

Yet not in the circulated version which Schiff released, 2nd draft - is it?

Unless you can show that the Chief Archivist is incorrect here, the records were properly destroyed and Schiff is wrong. So please present proof against the Chief Archivists comments.

Edited by psyche101, 11 March 2011 - 05:17 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#25245    skyeagle409

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 05:21 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 11 March 2011 - 05:00 AM, said:

With the balloon being described as torn to shreds that works in OK, you are now using Randles argument, but that is well explained with Lost Shamans CI hypothesis. If they were told to keep to a cover story to get the press of their backs, sure they would, not like anyone is getting hurt is it? You do not consider that ET may be the cover story you think is real.

You are missing the point again, There were no balloons of any kind involved in the Roswell incident, and once again, no wreckage on the Foster ranch in June, and as Dubose stated in an interview, and I might add that he also posed with the Roswell debris, that the rawin device he posed with in Ramey[s office, was destroyed deliberately by them before it was displayed in Ramey's office.

So, you see, there were no balloons involved.

In regards to those records that were destroyed illegally, show the operational records on events covering Major Edwin Easley and his troops during the clean-up on the Foster ranch and at crash site number 2. and we know that he, and military personel were involved, and you can be sure they were not cleaning up the Foster ranch from  the goodness of their little hearts or for the sake of   some public relations affair either.

Edited by skyeagle409, 11 March 2011 - 06:02 AM.

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