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Jesus

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 Started by trublvr , May 07 2004 04:51 AM

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#361    jeceris

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Posted 31 May 2004 - 07:21 PM

speaking of creationalism vs evolution, ignore the long quote.
i try to pick out the one line i want, and CREATE the memo, but i don't seem to have EVOLVED enough in computer land to get the one line i want. i just get the whole quote.
have decided to stop EVOLVING and will CREATE only with my own words
ottawa senators hockey


there was THIS year

#362    saucy

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Posted 31 May 2004 - 07:35 PM

Not to sound like I'm insulting you, which I am not, but you obviously never read the bible.  There's a story in there about the tower of babel where everyone was trying to reach heaven by building a tower and God didn't like that so to mix them all up, changed the language of the people so everyone spoke a different language.  It would seem to me that if men were a form of ape or something, language wouldn't be more than a howel or something.  Then, language takes a huge turn and is greatly more advanced then slowly starts to become less complicated?  I don't think so.  Every language on the planet is simply derived from one original word, but another way of saying it.  That's why the King James Version of the bible is so damn hard to understand because they translated it into english from Hebrew and Greek.  It seems like the world is starting to accept one form of lanuage, that being english.  

Edit; removed question regarding evolution, which is entirely off-topic.

Edited by Magikman, 31 May 2004 - 10:18 PM.

#363    Fluffybunny

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Posted 31 May 2004 - 08:02 PM

QUOTE (saucy @ May 31 2004, 12:35 PM)
I don't know, that seems to be that course of man and it goes along with the bible.

QUOTE
Not to sound like I'm insulting you, which I am not, but you obviously never read the bible.


I have been reading the bible for many years, I would be willing to bet longer than you have been alive...good try though. You assume that because I bring up mistakes that are in the bible that I haven't studied it. I say that because I have studied the bible with an open mind I am able to see the flaws in an "unnerrant" book.

I also took many a biology course too when I was in college. I have looked at both sides of the matter, which from your posts seems to be more than you did. There is much to support evolution.

QUOTE
It would seem to me that if men were a form of ape or something, language wouldn't be more than a howel or something. 


For some it seems to be, but we are not apes, so that argument is null. The ape thing would be a good thread in yet another creationism vs. evolution debate.

QUOTE
Then, language takes a huge turn and is greatly more advanced then slowly starts to become less complicated?


I don't understand where you are coming from on this? How is it that language has become less complicated?

QUOTE
It seems like the world is starting to accept one form of lanuage, that being english. 

That would be nice. Lets hope that happens.

Edit; removed references to evolution

QUOTE
That's why the King James Version of the bible is so damn hard to understand because they translated it into english from Hebrew and Greek.


And sometimes mistranslated too. The councel of Nicea under constantine seemed to have done some interesting editing. I would hope that in your study of the bible you would look at the Apocrypha as well, as in my opinion it adds to a fuller picture of who Jesus was and what he may have been.

Edited by Magikman, 31 May 2004 - 10:20 PM.

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#364    Stellar

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Posted 31 May 2004 - 09:12 PM

Oh god, I so want to comment on Saucy's post... but its not on topic and i fear that if theres one more post about it the thread will get closed (mods, if saucy makes a post just TO get this thread closed, please take action). I do however feel confident that there will not be another theory to replace evolution... adaptations at most. And if there is a new theory, it'll be very similar to that of evolution since we're already dealing with evidence.

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#365    Chauncy

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Posted 31 May 2004 - 09:25 PM

QUOTE
Then, language takes a huge turn and is greatly more advanced then slowly starts to become less complicated? I don't think so.


Language evolved untill it reached a point where full communication became possible. If you are communicating with someone effectively then you don't need to change it. Language is still evolving for sure, look at all the new slang terms and what not. Also if you look at how language forms then you get a good idea of how languages evolves, look up 'creoles' and 'pigeons'.

I always pictured our language to be a direct result of our emotions.

Here's a good study of language.
http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/5/2/4.html

QUOTE
Man started out in the middle east and history shows that civilization moved outward from the middle east, up into Europe and Asia, down into Egypt and Africa, then moved across the pond to America. I don't know, that seems to be that course of man and it goes along with the bible.


Mankind didn't start there, civilization did.

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#366    Magikman

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Posted 31 May 2004 - 10:27 PM

QUOTE (Stellar @ May 31 2004, 11:12 PM)
Oh god, I so want to comment on Saucy's post... but its not on topic and i fear that if theres one more post about it the thread will get closed.

Without hesitation.

Saucy, please refrain from mentioning anything relating to or dealing with evolution. This topic was allowed as it touches on the historical aspect of Jesus and whether or not he really existed. Let's keep the debate focused on that particular subject, please.
Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense. ~ Carl Sagan

"...man has an irrepressible tendency to read meaning into the buzzing confusion of sights and sounds impinging on his senses; and where no agreed meaning can be found, he will provide it out of his own imagination." ~ Arthur Koestler

#367    Chauncy

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Posted 31 May 2004 - 10:33 PM

Here's a good link that deals with the life of Jesus, this link will bring you to a page where the prophecies in the OT are listed, other info is found elsewhere on the site. Its an interesting read regardless of your religious stance.
http://www.whoisjesus-really.com/english/preview.htm
As long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost and science can never regress.
Julius Robert Oppenheimer. (1904-1967)
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#368    Stellar

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 02:12 AM

http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

Check out that article on the proof of the existance of Jesus.
"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

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#369    trublvr

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 02:23 AM

QUOTE
And sometimes mistranslated too. The councel of Nicea under constantine seemed to have done some interesting editing. I would hope that in your study of the bible you would look at the Apocrypha as well, as in my opinion it adds to a fuller picture of who Jesus was and what he may have been.


  Fluffybunny,

        Glad that you mentioned this.  The Council of Nicea has become quite the target for folks who believe that the New Testament as we have come to know it has been altered by some stodgy old fundamentalist dudes from the 4th century who acted at the behest of Constantine to take all the cool stuff about Jesus out of the New Testament.  

        The primary reason for the Nicean Council getting together in AD 325 was to address a heresy concerning the divinity of Jesus.  Regardless of what one thinks of the Nicean Council or Constantine (can't stand this dude, myself mad.gif), they made no pronouncements about the New  Testament  documents!   Below is a very thorough and meticulous site which includes every scrap of minutae you could ever want to know concerning the Nicean Council:

The Council of Nicaea and the Bible

      Whether folks believe the New Testament documents or the Christian Way, this is a myth that needs to expire in light of the facts.  
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#370    Chauncy

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 02:51 AM

Here's another thorough website about the Council
http://www.piar.hu/councils/ecum01.htm

There was more than just the one council of Nicea there was subsequent ones as well. The first one was in 325.
As long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost and science can never regress.
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#371    Stellar

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 03:08 AM

Check it out: The Dark Side of Jesus http://www.nobeliefs.com/jesus.htm
"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#372    Kismit

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 09:00 AM

I'm going to end this one , on the most part people where behaved ,however I'm at my witt's end with the creationist /Evolutionist bickering that takes place on a regular basis  . I am sorry that  the ones who did post well and apropriately have to be punished because of  a topic that seems to be able to leek its way into just about every thread on the forum  lately .  

Edited by Kismit, 01 June 2004 - 09:01 AM.

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