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Is violent movies the cause?


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#1    saucy

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Posted 07 May 2004 - 06:08 PM

Debate was set up by Saucy: This debate is one that will be strongly debated, I hope, by UniversalAbsurdity and Angelfish.  Angelfish will debate that violent movies and video games are not to blame for the increase in violence amongst children and teenagers.  UniversalAbsurdity will fight the idea, saying that movies such as the Matrix was the inspiration for tragedies such as Columbine and violence amongst kids has risen over the years, coincidentally coinciding with the rise in violence in movies and games.  Have fun with this topic and good luck!


#2    Angelfish

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Posted 07 May 2004 - 10:03 PM

Okies.... Intro:
The Media should not be attributed to causing violence in teenagers.
Simply because most teenagers should be able to differentiate between reality and a video game or movie.
My siblings and I love video games that involve some degree of violence (like Halo and Grand Theft Auto III) and none of us are barely more than slightly aggressive.
It's really easy to blame the media for something like this,  and as humans we will immediately look for someone to blame our problems on.  



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Ya know, a few days ago I found a better explaination(sp?) for Angelfish than "Cus it sounds cool".
But than I realized there was no one around to hear it, and I got really depressed.
I hope you all intend to make me feel better.

#3    Saru

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Posted 08 May 2004 - 08:07 AM

Haunted-One, i've moved your post to this thread because only the debaters are allowed to post in this thread. Sorry about that.


#4    Universal Absurdity

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Posted 11 May 2004 - 02:19 PM

Opening Statement:

Tv, movies, and video games are definetly a cause of violence among children and teenagers. I just saw on the news the other day that children under 3 should not watch tv, it is a major cause of a.d.d. .  If simply watching tv has that much affect on a child's mind at such a young age, it would not be safe to assume that as the child gets older his/her mind would not be affected by tv or any other violent stimulus.



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#5    Angelfish

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 04:18 PM

(sorry I took so long to reply)
Violence is in human nature.  I can believe that someone could be pushed over the edge by violence on television, but they would have to have been pushed to the edge by something else.
  


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Ya know, a few days ago I found a better explaination(sp?) for Angelfish than "Cus it sounds cool".
But than I realized there was no one around to hear it, and I got really depressed.
I hope you all intend to make me feel better.

#6    Universal Absurdity

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 07:34 PM

QUOTE
but they would have to have been pushed to the edge by something else.


Could it be the years of exposure to media? the fear that media puts into children and adolecents with impressionable minds? Fear is a leading cause of violence.
Have you watched the news lately? its definetly something i dont want my child to watch.

years of exposure to media creates fear, then throw in a bloody movie or video game and that promotes ideas about violence. Why do you think that the US has the highest murder rate of any country in the world? we heve the worst media. Crime rates drop and media exposure of crime rises. all this does is promote fear and more violence.

Then theres video games, killing without a conscience. its mind numbing. pressing buttons to kill while your mind wanders...sounds like brain washing to me.



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#7    Angelfish

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 10:26 PM

QUOTE
years of exposure to media creates fear, then throw in a bloody movie or video game and that promotes ideas about violence.

Most children nowadays have practically spent their whole lives in front of television set. And most of them have probably seen a horror flick or two and played a "shooter" game at least once. But you don't see most teenagers running around randomly firing guns.
It's the reason why stuff like what happened at Columbine HS five years ago gets in national news. Because it doesn't happen that often.
And if a kid does haul off and shoot someone, it's because A. they're mentally unstable, B. Their parents screwed up somewhere along the line. Or C. they've just had too much, they've had their lunch money stolen once too often. Not because they want to be like Tommy Verscetti(sp?)



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Ya know, a few days ago I found a better explaination(sp?) for Angelfish than "Cus it sounds cool".
But than I realized there was no one around to hear it, and I got really depressed.
I hope you all intend to make me feel better.

#8    Universal Absurdity

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Posted 13 May 2004 - 04:03 AM

QUOTE
Most children nowadays have practically spent their whole lives in front of television set. And most of them have probably seen a horror flick or two and played a "shooter" game at least once. But you don't see most teenagers running around randomly firing guns.


I do realize this.
What we're doing here is giving examples of one extreme vs another. What is actually happening is a middle ground issue. The point I'm trying to make here, is that if there were less fear encouragement, and violence so readily available (often unavoidable) crime rates would be signifigantly less than they currently are.


QUOTE
It's the reason why stuff like what happened at Columbine HS five years ago gets in national news. Because it doesn't happen that often


My point is that it happens, the students that shot everyone in columbine were normal kids. well they would have been if they had'nt grown up in a society that considered them outcasts. instead of trying to resolve issues they had they opted to kill alot of people to GET ON THE NEWS and make their  point there. i wonder why they might have thought it would make it on the news.

QUOTE
And if a kid does haul off and shoot someone, it's because A. they're mentally unstable
how do you think that might happen? could it be they are more suceptable to fear and violence from too much exposure to it when they were most impressionable?

QUOTE
Their parents screwed up somewhere along the line.

point taken

QUOTE
they've just had too much, they've had their lunch money stolen once too often.

Every kid expresses themself in their own way. Eminem had this happen to him alot apparently, instead of going out and killing people he chose to express himself through music. not every kid has the will to turn their negatives into positives. and it certainly does not help when 3 times a day the news is putting fear in their minds, once or twice a week they see a violent movie, and every day they are shooting, killing, beating up, and maiming people on video games. Not to mention lauging about it, and competing with their friends to do 'better' at it.  

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#9    Angelfish

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 03:24 PM

QUOTE
every day they are shooting, killing, beating up, and maiming people on video games. Not to mention lauging about it, and competing with their friends to do 'better' at it.

But what they are killing and horribly maiming is just a bunch of ones and zeroes, insignificant pieces of memory whose entire purpose is to get shot at.
And most of it isn't even very realistic, I've seen games where you could cut your enemy's leg and it's face starts bleeding.
I know it's really easy to blame the media for stuff, but the truth of the matter is that it's no one but that person's fault. If a kid turns a gun on a bully at school, it's the kid's fault. He made a conscious decision to bring in that gun, he made a conscious decision to use it. It was his choice, he should get the blame for it, not the media, not the parents, not the bully



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Ya know, a few days ago I found a better explaination(sp?) for Angelfish than "Cus it sounds cool".
But than I realized there was no one around to hear it, and I got really depressed.
I hope you all intend to make me feel better.

#10    Universal Absurdity

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 03:49 PM

QUOTE
But what they are killing and horribly maiming is just a bunch of ones and zeroes,
What we are debating here is conveyed by ones and zeroes, yet it is a real debate. at least in our minds and the minds of anyone reading it.

QUOTE
And most of it isn't even very realistic

Have you seen the newer game systems??? ps2, and xbox have games that look like movies, the blood and gore in all the games that contain it are VERY realistic.
its not only that, games are evolving to teach tactical killing, sniper games, war games...its all conditioning. flight simulator games on these systems are better than the ones the military used just 10 years ago, the shooter/1'st person games on these systems are 100 times more graphic and realistic than simulators used to train police were 10 years ago.

QUOTE

I know it's really easy to blame the media for stuff, but the truth of the matter is that it's no one but that person's fault. If a kid turns a gun on a bully at school, it's the kid's fault. He made a conscious decision to bring in that gun, he made a conscious decision to use it. It was his choice, he should get the blame for it, not the media, not the parents, not the bully


Why not? Why not the media? they portray all the bad in society , and say: this is the most important thing going on in your neighborhood/the world, you need to be scared. you need to be paranoid. why not the parents? you said yourself that violence in adolescents could be caused by bad  parents. Why not the bully? is it really the average kid's fault that a bully decides to pick on him? and if that bully threatens death, why should the kid not defend himself? the media shows the government making pre emptive strikes on our enemies. if the government can do it, and they show it on tv, what makes it the average disturbed adolecent's fault? obviously the news told him things like that are ok, it IS ok since they told everyone about it? isnt it?  

Obviously there will be a majority that will not go to such extreme measures. but it cannot be denied that with population increase, the minority that does go to extremes, that has been more affected by violence and fear in media, will also increase. True you are responsible for your own actions, but adolecents are influenced very easily. if there were not as much violence in media, there wouldnt be as much in real life.


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#11    Angelfish

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Posted 16 May 2004 - 08:23 PM

My older brother listens to stuff like Godsmack and Metallica, he plays some of the goriest games ever, likes tv shows where stuff blows up a lot and people get hurt badly a lot. And yet the worst I can ever remember him doing is putting his fist through a wall.
I know that's only one person, but from my experience, most teenaged boys like that kind of stuff.



if you click this, the world will blow up
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Ya know, a few days ago I found a better explaination(sp?) for Angelfish than "Cus it sounds cool".
But than I realized there was no one around to hear it, and I got really depressed.
I hope you all intend to make me feel better.

#12    Universal Absurdity

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Posted 16 May 2004 - 09:04 PM

Conclusion:

I must admit angelfish i was taking it easy on you with this debate.
i do regret that now, it could have been much better.
There are pleanty of things that i could have brought up. A comparison of past crime rates, and past media vs present. surely a comparison of the 50's and today would indicate a very plausable link to media and violence.
i could have listed what movies were out this week, what the news was reporting on, and given you a list of what was in the police blotter for the week ( i did take a
look) but i decided to simply reply to what you posted.

unfortunately the most i could provoke out of you was based on simple human nature,and humans, in nature are influenced mainly by what they percieve. Most do have thecommon sense to know better than to resort to violence, most, not all.

life often immitates art. It is a pity that 'art' can be so violent and influential
to even the smallest minority....after all....thats most of what we hear about in the
news.


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#13    Angelfish

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Posted 16 May 2004 - 09:22 PM

awwww, it's over already(how long did this take, like a week? tongue.gif ) my brain hurts..... ph34r.gif
Wait...**recounts posts** I still have to do my conclusion thingy...

Conclusion:
Umm…I think you won…..
This was fun though, we should do it again sometime, after my brain stops hurting……

**halfhearted smile**


if you click this, the world will blow up
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Ya know, a few days ago I found a better explaination(sp?) for Angelfish than "Cus it sounds cool".
But than I realized there was no one around to hear it, and I got really depressed.
I hope you all intend to make me feel better.

#14    Saru

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 01:39 PM

Thanks to you both for taking part, I shall have the scores posted up for you as soon as possible.


#15    Saru

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Posted 19 May 2004 - 07:57 PM

The results are now in, UniversalAbsurdity came out on top once again with 30 points, while Angelfish scored a respectable 20.

Full scores for this and all the other debates can be found in the debate results thread.





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