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What if nothing happening...


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#16    kmt_sesh

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 10:34 PM

Wow, the Modern Mysteries forum. I've never written a post here but I was asked to come and contribute. I have only peripherally studied Mesoamerican cultures (mostly Aztec) so I do not feel equipped to comment authoritatively on them. All I can say is that it's my understanding that the Maya prediction was the end of an age, not the world. No cataclysmic, worldwide destruction was stated or implied, as far as I know. But again, Mesoamerica is not my forte, so I don't wish to get bogged down in that.  

I have no such hesitation with the ancient Egyptians, however.

I've researched ancient Egypt and other Near Eastern cultures for many years, and for those of you who are not familiar with me and my usual haunt--the Ancient Mysteries & Alternative History forum--I have a very conservative and orthodox approach to historical research. I work in the Egyptian exhibits of two major Chicago museums, so here at UM I spend most of my time debunking fringe theories with little to no historical merit.

I can say with complete confidence that the Egyptians had no 2012 predictions whatsoever. The Egyptians were never big on prophecies to begin with. There was indeed a belief that eventually the cosmos would end and only a couple of specific deities might survive, but it was never a well-defined belief and there was never a timeframe attached to it. Note, however, that to the Egyptians this wasn't just the end of the world but the end of the universe itself.

Put simply, there is no connection whatsoever between the Maya prediction and ancient Egypt. ;)

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#17    Jessem

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 11:04 PM

O its so funny. Im right your wrong! Blah blah blah blah! LOL. We wont know till it happens, thats all. As I've said before people will go to great links to see that they are right. I just have to say prophecies are apart of life. BUT, we live in a world where things change and the future is always changed. No matter what there will be a conclusion we just dont know exactly. We are just one big organism in a petre dish of the cosmos! One big experiment by the "aliens". Kind of reminds me of that simpson episode. where did that one come from? I know they got that episode from somewhere.

Edited by Jessem, 23 August 2009 - 11:07 PM.

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#18    SilverCougar

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 02:57 AM

View PostRob Awesome, on 21 August 2009 - 07:11 PM, said:

Did anyone every consider that the reason the Mayan calender doesn't go beyond that date because it didn't need to?  I mean maybe they were going to use that calender up before carving a new one.  It's just that there aren't many Mayans around now to do it.  

I have a calender on my desk here at work that ends on December 31, 2009! Maybe the end of the world, maybe time to hit the Hallmark store for a new one.

Also the Mayan calender was cyclical, the universe moves on a 29,000+ year cycle and Dec 5 2012 is when it reaches the start point again, so just start at the start of the calender again and you will have 29,000 or more years till the next end of the world.


GASP! You're crazy talking there!   How can you use that logic infront of all these people who think the world as we know it will end?!  For SHAME!!!  

(and for those who are inable to see..  *raises her arms up* SARCASM!)

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#19    Sakari

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 03:22 AM

I for one hope something happens , not saying I believe it...Actually I wish it were this year....World is wayyyyyy over-populated by humans , and the population needs to be brought down.....Even if I end up being one of them...

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#20    Cynical Sounds

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 09:15 AM

I find it weird that people will say stuff like google 2012 and ancient cultures or see this 2012 site as this is some how evidence.

this is the equivalent or some guy down the pub telling you the world is going to end. if they quote a direct piece of literature read it in context or they present some thing as a fact look for a credible source to fact check it surely its not that hard.

from what I've read the mayans had calendars for pretty much everything and funnily enough the long count is the longest but all they predicted to happen was........ for it to start again.

Edited by Spend, 24 August 2009 - 09:17 AM.

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#21    TheSearcher

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 02:03 PM

View PostHoly Cross, on 22 August 2009 - 12:29 PM, said:

To everyone who said that i have no proof, uh i simply told you facts from ancient cultures and i was even nice enough to tell you where to find it. I have given you evidence it just appears you are blind to see it. I told you to search for that on the internet so that you could read it yourself firsthand. I really dont see what the problem is.

You have given us nothing. You have told us to use google (or other search engines), with a search term that is generic, we could end up on god knows which looney site.
We don't even know if we are reading the same material as you or if we are even accessing the same sites. So no, you've given us no proof whatsoever.
If you want to give us proof, then copy and paste what you consider proof or give us the links to it. Saying go search for yourself, is just, I'm sorry to say, lazy. It has nothing to do with "go see for yourself". Everybody else puts at least the links in their posts, why can't you?

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#22    kmt_sesh

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 06:27 PM

View PostTheSearcher, on 24 August 2009 - 02:03 PM, said:

You have given us nothing. You have told us to use google (or other search engines), with a search term that is generic, we could end up on god knows which looney site.
We don't even know if we are reading the same material as you or if we are even accessing the same sites. So no, you've given us no proof whatsoever.
If you want to give us proof, then copy and paste what you consider proof or give us the links to it. Saying go search for yourself, is just, I'm sorry to say, lazy. It has nothing to do with "go see for yourself". Everybody else puts at least the links in their posts, why can't you?

I would additionally caution that the internet is rarely a valid platform for legitimate historical research. Nearly everything on the internet is put there without citation or reference, so you have no idea where the information is coming from. In other words, anyone can write anything he or she pleases, and slap it onto the Web. That doesn't make it reliable source material. I've found that only a scant few websites are truly reliable for the kind of research I do.

I've noticed that posters at UM love to link to Wikipedia as though it were the Holy Grail of truth. In reality, Wikipedia can be pretty sloppy. The best and most reliable Wiki pages are those that include a thorough biography at the end, so one will know the source material to examine if something in the Wiki article seems dubious or suspect.

Also, YouTube is never, ever a legitimate reference source. Period! It's silly how many times people link to some YouTube video as though it offers proof. That gives me quite a chuckle. YouTube is very entertaining and that's the primary reason for its existence, but if you're trying to substantiate an argument with a link to a YouTube video, you've failed from the get-go.

Naturally, the best and most reliable sources for references in one's post are of course good, old-fashioned books. Not just any books, but those written by individuals who are recognized as properly trained and experienced in their particular field of study.

These are just some observations on my part. But perhaps most importantly, I couldn't agree more with TheSearcher: if you're positing something for the sake of debate, and someone questions you on some information you wrote, never just tell your opponent to go look it up himself or herself. That makes you come across in one of two ways (or perhaps both ways):

1) You are just posting stuff straight out of your imagination and have no means to substantiate your position; or
2) You're just plain lazy.

Either way makes you look bad. At least provide the name of the book from which you took the point in question. Always support your own arguments if you want to be taken seriously. :yes:

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#23    charlote

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 01:56 PM

i never really belived this until i started reseaching it and its made me think twice im not sure WHAT will happen but i think something will...
errm as for the person who wanted to know who else has predicted it i can give you a few...
there is a chineese orical  I-ching i think thats how its spelt
then theres the web bot
apprently theres some in the old testement too
myans calander
the roman orical the cybil


right im going to have to cut it short because i have a driving lesson :P ill edit it later this evening and add more detail :)


#24    Holy Cross

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 04:00 AM

Here are a few other peoples of the earth that predicted a 2012 event: The Real Merlin, the Welsh called him Merlin Of The Wild, Sybil- The Roman Oracle, Mother Shipton, and The Hopi. All of these people said that a event that would shake the earth would happen in 2012. Sybil- The Roman Oracle said that fire would fall from the Heavens and very powerful earthquakes would shake the earh among other events which would effect the earth and its peoples.

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#25    TheSearcher

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 07:48 AM

View PostHoly Cross, on 26 August 2009 - 04:00 AM, said:

Here are a few other peoples of the earth that predicted a 2012 event: The Real Merlin, the Welsh called him Merlin Of The Wild, Sybil- The Roman Oracle, Mother Shipton, and The Hopi. All of these people said that a event that would shake the earth would happen in 2012. Sybil- The Roman Oracle said that fire would fall from the Heavens and very powerful earthquakes would shake the earh among other events which would effect the earth and its peoples.

Merlin, I take it you are talking about Myrddin Wyllt, when you say real Merlin? Myrddin Wyllt(Welsh pronunciation: [ˈməršɪn ˈwɨɬt]) or Merlinus Caledonensis is a figure in medieval Welsh legend, known as a prophet and a madman. He is the most important prototype for the modern composite image of Merlin, the wizard from Arthurian legend. The earliest (pre-12th century) Welsh poems that concern the Myrddin legend present him as a madman living a wretched existence in the Caledonian Forest, where he ruminates on his former existence and the disaster that made him mad : the death of his lord Gwenddoleu, whom he served as bard. A version of this legend is preserved in a late fifteenth-century manuscript in a story called "Lailoken and Kentigern". In this narrative, St. Kentigern meets in a deserted place with a naked, hairy madman who is called Lailoken, although said by some to be called Merlynum or "Merlin", who declares that he has been condemned for his sins to wander in the company of beasts.

The modern depiction of Merlin began with Geoffrey of Monmouth. His book "Prophetiae Merlini" was intended to be a collection of the prophecies of the Welsh figure of Myrddin, whom he called Merlin. He included "the Prophetiae" in his more famous second work, the "Historia Regum Britanniae". In this work, however, he constructed an account of Merlin's life that placed him in the time of Aurelius Ambrosius and King Arthur, decades before the lifetime of Myrddin Wyllt. He also attached to him an episode originally ascribed to Ambrosius, and others that appear to be of his own invention. Geoffrey later wrote the "Vita Merlini", an account based more closely on the earlier Welsh stories about Myrddin and his experiences at Arfderyd, and explained that the action was taking place long after Merlin's involvement with Arthur. However, the "Vita Merlini" did not prove popular enough to counter the version of Merlin in the Historia, which went on to influence most later accounts of the character. So all you have been reading about Merlin are mostly fabrications of some sort, the first of which were started by Geoffrey of Monmouth

No prediction of 2012 that I can see.

The roman Sybill, can you please elaborate as to which one you are talking about? There have been numerous sybills consulted by the Romans and a few actually where Roman, so it is important.
For example : The Sibyl at Cumae, a town in Italy near Lake Avernus, was said to inhabit a cave with one hundred mouths, each of which had a voice. She wrote Her prophecies on leaves, which She would leave at the cave entrance. The Cumaean Sibyl led Aeneas to the Underworld to visit his deceased father, after telling him to offer the Golden Bough (mistletoe) to Proserpina.

According to another legend, She offered nine holy books to the early Roman King Tarquin, but he refused, saying the price was too steep. She then burnt three of them, and doubled the price. He again refused, and She burnt three more, again doubling the price, and the astonished and worried King finally bought them. These Sibylline Books were then found to contain instructions for the proper worship of the Gods, and were kept very safe, consulted only on the direction of the Senate. The Sibylline Books or Libri Sibyllini were a collection of oracular utterances, set out in Greek hexameters, purchased from a sibyl by the last king of Rome, Tarquinius Superbus, and consulted at momentous crises through the history of the Republic and the Empire. Only fragments have survived, the rest being lost or deliberately destroyed.

The Sibylline Books should not be confused with the so-called Sibylline Oracles, twelve books of prophesies thought to be of Judaeo-Christian origin and invention. So the prophecy you gave here, comes from which one? The Sybilline books or the Sybilline Oracle?

And just so we are sure who we are talking about, there also were other oracles and sibyls : the Oracle of Zeus at Dodona, where the god spoke through the rustling of leaves, or brass vessels which were hung in the sacred oak grove; the Oracle of Trophonius in Lebadia; the Oracle of Zeus-Ammon in Libya; the Cimmerian Sybil; the Phrygian Sibyl, and the Tiburtine Sibyl, Albunea.

Mother Shipton or Ursula Southeil (c. 1488 - 1561) (possibly Ursula Southill or Ursula Soothtell), was an English soothsayer and prophetess. The first publication of her prophecies, which did not appear until 1641, eighty years after her death, contained a number of mainly regional predictions, but only two prophetic verses. The most famous claimed edition of Mother Shipton's prophecies, supposedly foretells many modern events and phenomena. Widely quoted today as if it were the original, it contains over a hundred prophetic rhymed couplets in notably non-sixteenth-century language and includes the now-famous lines:

    The world to an end shall come
    In eighteen hundred and eighty one.

This supposed prophecy has appeared over the years with different dates and in (or about) several countries. However, this version did not appear in print until 1862, and its true author, one Charles Hindley, subsequently admitted in print that he had forged it. This is fact.

Again, no prediction of 2012 that I can see.

The Hopi tribe, Well not being quite so knowledgeable about them, I can't really say anything about them, although I can quote an article I really liked, from a few years ago. I'll add the link, for those that would like to read the entire article. It's quite a good read.

Quote

I would say that the Hopi Indian prophesies can largely be explained away as interpretations of past events, and when futuristic they could well be the stuff of dreams (man has always wanted to step on the moon perhaps), or simply flights of fancy. Many science fiction books spin flights of fancy but on the contrary there are many cases where science fiction becomes science fact. The interesting and perhaps disturbing part of Hopi Indian prophesies is the mention of metal roads and iron horses. However, I will say that some prophesies from other sources have been found to be falsities. A very good example is the recently discovered Nostradamian piece describing the World Trade Center impacts and collapses - being at the 45th parallel; this particular prediction actually originated with the Webbot project, and not Nostradamus. Also, the Webbot project assesses the general mood of the global Internet population and it was invented to predict sock market fluctuations, given that most people react emotionally it makes perfect sense; but the the Webbot project is about people and their emotions, and not about traveling the time curve and predicting the future hundreds or even thousands of years into the future.

All in all, I don't see a lot that convinces me of anything armageddon-like happening in 2012, more than any other year.

It would be nice though, if people could elaborate a bit more, instead of just saying, so-and-so said so. Please be exact in what they actually said and when they said it. It's not that hard really. By Zeus, I'm lazy by times and I do it nontheless. Do us the courtesy to do the same. Thanks.

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#26    kmt_sesh

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 04:18 PM

View PostTheSearcher, on 26 August 2009 - 07:48 AM, said:

The Hopi tribe, Well not being quite so knowledgeable about them, I can't really say anything about them, although I can quote an article I really liked, from a few years ago. I'll add the link, for those that would like to read the entire article. It's quite a good read.

I'm also not terribly knowledgeable about the Hopi, and in the minor in anthropology I pursued for my first college degree I concentrated on the Plains Indians, but it was also necessary to study Indians of the Southwest. The article to which you linked us explains it well. As with other Indians the Hopi believe their world has consisted of four stages or four "worlds," and we're currently in the fourth. They do predict it will end, but only in vague and amorphous terms. They do not specifically hold that 2012 will be the year.

It's quite a stretch to tie in the Hopi with the Maya calendar and the end of its stage in 2012. There's no meaningful connection.

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#27    TheSearcher

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 08:33 AM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 26 August 2009 - 04:18 PM, said:

I'm also not terribly knowledgeable about the Hopi, and in the minor in anthropology I pursued for my first college degree I concentrated on the Plains Indians, but it was also necessary to study Indians of the Southwest. The article to which you linked us explains it well. As with other Indians the Hopi believe their world has consisted of four stages or four "worlds," and we're currently in the fourth. They do predict it will end, but only in vague and amorphous terms. They do not specifically hold that 2012 will be the year.

It's quite a stretch to tie in the Hopi with the Maya calendar and the end of its stage in 2012. There's no meaningful connection.

That's what I understood too, the predictions are quite vague and amorphous, which makes the liable to be interpreted any way you want. If you want to know what they actually mean and if they have any connection to what is commonly believed to be 2012 / armageddon / Planet X / Galactic alignement / etc...., then we should either ask a scholar familiar with the Hopi, or a Hopi elder. I'd be more enclined to believe either of those, than some wild claims on the internet.

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#28    Corp

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 03:57 PM

View PostHoly Cross, on 26 August 2009 - 04:00 AM, said:

Here are a few other peoples of the earth that predicted a 2012 event: The Real Merlin, the Welsh called him Merlin Of The Wild, Sybil- The Roman Oracle, Mother Shipton, and The Hopi. All of these people said that a event that would shake the earth would happen in 2012. Sybil- The Roman Oracle said that fire would fall from the Heavens and very powerful earthquakes would shake the earh among other events which would effect the earth and its peoples.

Do you have any links of where you're getting this information? Because I've never heard of any of these claims.


And to answer the OP when nothing happens people will just disappear until the next doomsday


#29    El-Basido

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 11:58 PM

View PostJersey Devil, on 22 August 2009 - 02:09 PM, said:

I believe that this whole 2012 thing is a load of crap on one level: it's all media-driven. I believe that something will happen, but not catastrophic like some think. I think that an alien visitation/contact could happen. The Apocalypse is too early. Interesting idea, but nothing bad. Maybe animals will start speaking human language. Now that would be awesome!

I wholeheartedley agree, talking animals would be awesome, but budgie doesen't stop talking, so does that mean its already happened???? haha

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#30    TheSearcher

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 07:22 AM

View PostEl-Basido, on 27 August 2009 - 11:58 PM, said:

I wholeheartedley agree, talking animals would be awesome, but budgie doesen't stop talking, so does that mean its already happened???? haha

My cats are already cheeky enough as it is, I don't really want them to be able to talk back too...

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