Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

AS11 Astronauts give fake moon rock to dutch


  • Please log in to reply
77 replies to this topic

#46    Peter B

Peter B

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,446 posts
  • Joined:29 Mar 2009
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Yes We Can-berra!

Posted 30 August 2009 - 05:46 AM

A couple of other points come to mind.

Firstly, the rock is described as being fist-sized, which means it probably weighs several hundred grams. That's a substantial proportion of the weight of rocks brought back by Apollo 11. If NASA was to hand out samples of such size to every Prime Minister and President, and ex-PMs as well, they'd run out of Apollo 11 samples well before they'd covered their allies, and leave nothing for the scientists.

Secondly, the ambassador gave the rock to the ex-PM, who kept it in his desk. That's not the way NASA treats genuine moon rocks. For example, there's a small moon rock at the Tidbinbilla Tracking Station, just outside Canberra, which is a gift from NASA (or permanent loan, I don't remember which). It's stored in a sealed container which is otherwise full of nitrogen gas. In other words, if ever Tid was to give it up, it'd probably still be useful for at least some scientific examination.

The more I think about this story, the more it sounds like a not very scientifically literate ambassador trying to impress an equally scientifically illiterate ex-Prime Minister.


#47    MID

MID

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 14,490 posts
  • Joined:06 Aug 2005
  • Gender:Male

  • ...The greatest error is not to have tried and failed, but that in trying, we did not give it our best effort.

Posted 01 September 2009 - 12:17 AM

View PostPeter B, on 30 August 2009 - 05:46 AM, said:



The more I think about this story, the more it sounds like a not very scientifically literate ambassador trying to impress an equally scientifically illiterate ex-Prime Minister.


I suspect that is very likely an excellent summation of this matter, Peter!


#48    turbonium

turbonium

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,344 posts
  • Joined:14 Mar 2005

Posted 03 September 2009 - 04:19 AM

All I see are shoddy excuses .

So, the US Ambassador was just "trying to impress" him!

Right.

Instead of simply giving him a real Moon rock, which they (supposedly) had plenty of collected by Apollo, the Ambassador spent days/months beforehand trying to find a piece of petrified wood that would pass for a Moon rock!

Makes perfect sense. If you live in Apollo-world, at least.

But not in the real world.


#49    Czero 101

Czero 101

    Earthshattering Kaboom

  • Member
  • 5,397 posts
  • Joined:24 Dec 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vancouver, BC

  • We are all made of thermonuclear waste material

Posted 03 September 2009 - 04:52 AM

View Postturbonium, on 03 September 2009 - 04:19 AM, said:

Instead of simply giving him a real Moon rock, which they (supposedly) had plenty of collected by Apollo, the Ambassador spent days/months beforehand trying to find a piece of petrified wood that would pass for a Moon rock!
Please show exactly where it is said that the Ambassador "spent days/months" looking for a rock.

Please also show exactly where it is said anywhere on the plaque that this rock is from the Moon.

Finally, please show exactly where it is said anywhere that NASA had anything to do with this.




Cz

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe..." - Carl Sagan
"I'm tired of ignorance held up as inspiration, where vicious anti-intellectualism is considered a positive trait, and where uninformed opinion is displayed as fact." - Phil Plait
"For it is the natural tendency of the ignorant to believe what is not true. In order to overcome that tendency it is not sufficient to exhibit the true; it is also necessary to expose and denounce the false." - H. L. Mencken

#50    Simbul

Simbul

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,558 posts
  • Joined:22 Oct 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 03 September 2009 - 05:07 AM

View Postturbonium, on 03 September 2009 - 04:19 AM, said:

All I see are shoddy excuses .

So, the US Ambassador was just "trying to impress" him!

Right.

Instead of simply giving him a real Moon rock, which they (supposedly) had plenty of collected by Apollo, the Ambassador spent days/months beforehand trying to find a piece of petrified wood that would pass for a Moon rock!

Makes perfect sense. If you live in Apollo-world, at least.

But not in the real world.
What do you have to say about the fact we had moon rocks before the Apollo missions? We got them from space probes, so did the soviets.

We could have given the Dutch a REAL moon rock even if the moon landings were fake.

That entire factor just leads me to believe it was a god damned mixup.

That and even if they didn't get moon rocks before the apollo missions well erm...

Posted Image

They could have given a far more convincing "fake". I mean I assume you believe this is fake, right? Looks nothing like the obvious piece of wood.

Dunno if you believe NASA's space probe missions were fake (and if so, by extant the soviet ones as well?).

Edited by Kacen, 03 September 2009 - 05:11 AM.

"Everything we did was criticized. For about thirty years we lived with the world against us, accusing us of things we didn't do!"

    - Ian Douglas Smith

#51    Simbul

Simbul

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,558 posts
  • Joined:22 Oct 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 03 September 2009 - 05:13 AM

View PostCzero 101, on 03 September 2009 - 04:52 AM, said:

Please show exactly where it is said that the Ambassador "spent days/months" looking for a rock.

Please also show exactly where it is said anywhere on the plaque that this rock is from the Moon.

Finally, please show exactly where it is said anywhere that NASA had anything to do with this.




Cz
In retrospect to this guy it doesn't really matter. In his head he was thoroughly convinced the Apollo missions were faked before this little moon rock incident, so to him this is just "back up" to his claims even if when you really think about it it's neither here nor there.

Honestly, think about it. They had moon rocks, or at least more convincing fakes than that piece of wood, like I posted above.

Hypothetically if the Apollo Missions were faked, then they could have still given the Dutch a real moon rock from the aforementioned space probe missions. Or assuming that those missions were faked they could have given a far more convincing fake.

So really, this means nothing. The way I see it, if NASA faked the moon landing they would have done a better job faking it. The fact that the petrified piece of wood can be so easily outed as not a moon rock from simple visual inspection shows that it was a mix up and not a deliberate faking by NASA; they would have done a better job faking it in that hypothetical scenario.

But yeah, to him it doesn't matter. He was convinced Apollo was faked before this little mix up was discovered.

Edited by Kacen, 03 September 2009 - 05:18 AM.

"Everything we did was criticized. For about thirty years we lived with the world against us, accusing us of things we didn't do!"

    - Ian Douglas Smith

#52    Czero 101

Czero 101

    Earthshattering Kaboom

  • Member
  • 5,397 posts
  • Joined:24 Dec 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vancouver, BC

  • We are all made of thermonuclear waste material

Posted 03 September 2009 - 05:20 AM

View PostKacen, on 03 September 2009 - 05:07 AM, said:

What do you have to say about the fact we had moon rocks before the Apollo missions? We got them from space probes, so did the soviets.
Actually, we didn't have samples known to be from the Moon until Apollo 11. The Soviet sample return missions weren't successful until Luna 16 in 1970. The 3 successful Luna probes returned a grand total of 326 grams (2/3 of a pound) of Lunar soil and pebbles.

Also, the US never had a robotic Lunar sample return program. Why would they need one when they had Apollo that would eventually bring back thousands of times more material than the Soviet robotic probes...?

Quote

Dunno if you believe NASA's space probe missions were fake (and if so, by extant the soviet ones as well?).
Whether he or anyone else believes in "NASA's space probe missions" is irrelevant since they never existed in the first place.



Cz

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe..." - Carl Sagan
"I'm tired of ignorance held up as inspiration, where vicious anti-intellectualism is considered a positive trait, and where uninformed opinion is displayed as fact." - Phil Plait
"For it is the natural tendency of the ignorant to believe what is not true. In order to overcome that tendency it is not sufficient to exhibit the true; it is also necessary to expose and denounce the false." - H. L. Mencken

#53    Simbul

Simbul

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,558 posts
  • Joined:22 Oct 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 03 September 2009 - 05:41 AM

http://en.wikipedia....urveyor_Program

Hmm...this must have been what I was thinking of.

They did send probes, but seeing as these never returned to earth, you're right, they couldn't have brought moon rocks back.

That said, part of my point still stands that they could have offered far more convincing "fakes" even if the Apollo Missions never occurred...

I mean using his logic he must believe no one on earth has moon rocks, at least NASA, and so he must think all moon rocks are fake...how does he account for the petrified wood not looking like any of the other moon rocks we have?

"Everything we did was criticized. For about thirty years we lived with the world against us, accusing us of things we didn't do!"

    - Ian Douglas Smith

#54    flyingswan

flyingswan

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,993 posts
  • Joined:13 Sep 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 03 September 2009 - 10:29 AM

View Postturbonium, on 03 September 2009 - 04:19 AM, said:

Instead of simply giving him a real Moon rock, which they (supposedly) had plenty of collected by Apollo, the Ambassador spent days/months beforehand trying to find a piece of petrified wood that would pass for a Moon rock!
Plenty of moon rock? At the time, NASA just had the 11 kg from Apollo 11.  They were hardly likely to give several hundred grams to a retired politician in a foreign country at a time when the world's geologists were lucky to get a gram or two each to study.

There is not a shred of evidence that NASA were involved in this at all.

"Man prefers to believe what he prefers to be true" - Francis Bacon (1561-1626)
In which case it is fortunate that:
"Science is the best defense against believing what we want to" - Ian Stewart (1945- )

#55    Emma_Acid

Emma_Acid

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,729 posts
  • Joined:29 Jan 2007
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:London

  • Godspeed MID

Posted 03 September 2009 - 03:09 PM

View Poststarchy, on 28 August 2009 - 02:54 PM, said:

Here we go, some possible evidence that the 1st Moon landing was faked. According to a dutch museum a moon rock given to them by Armstrong et al, was fake. Turns out it was a petrified piece of wood.
Either
1) They didnt go to the moon, and Nasa has conned the world.
2) The rock is from the moon, and indicates that trees once grew there. We know it has water, but could the moon have once have had an atmosphere,and trees.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/8226075.stm

This is a good example of Occam's Beard*

* 747400

"Science is the least subjective form of deduction" ~ A. Mulder

#56    WoIverine

WoIverine

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 6,737 posts
  • Joined:16 Sep 2008
  • Gender:Male

  • With great power, comes great irresponsibility.

Posted 03 September 2009 - 03:16 PM

I actually think this is kind of funny. That's one hell of a practical joke! LOL


#57    MID

MID

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 14,490 posts
  • Joined:06 Aug 2005
  • Gender:Male

  • ...The greatest error is not to have tried and failed, but that in trying, we did not give it our best effort.

Posted 03 September 2009 - 09:34 PM

View Postturbonium, on 03 September 2009 - 04:19 AM, said:

All I see are shoddy excuses .


Well, of course you do.


Quote

So, the US Ambassador was just "trying to impress" him!

Right.

Instead of simply giving him a real Moon rock, which they (supposedly) had plenty of collected by Apollo, the Ambassador spent days/months beforehand trying to find a piece of petrified wood that would pass for a Moon rock!

Makes perfect sense. If you live in Apollo-world, at least.

But not in the real world.

Make perfect sense, since there were no Moon rocks given out to anyone at that time, and, if you understand diplomats and the Department of State....it makes absolutely perfect sense.

That's the real world!
This thing had nothing to do with NASA or Apollo.


#58    rambaldi

rambaldi

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 289 posts
  • Joined:20 Dec 2007

Posted 04 September 2009 - 12:01 PM

View Postturbonium, on 03 September 2009 - 04:19 AM, said:

Instead of simply giving him a real Moon rock, which they (supposedly) had plenty of collected by Apollo, the Ambassador spent days/months beforehand trying to find a piece of petrified wood that would pass for a Moon rock!

So instead the same NASA, who was trying to fool the world, who (according to YOU) managed to fool i.e. the people of Honeysuckle Creek, was so utterly stupid to hand out obvious fake rocks?

Yeah that makes definetely more sense than a simple misunderstanding or mixup.

Once again, Turbs shows that he has no clue about the real world.


#59    flyingswan

flyingswan

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,993 posts
  • Joined:13 Sep 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 04 September 2009 - 01:43 PM

View Postrambaldi, on 04 September 2009 - 12:01 PM, said:

Once again, Turbs shows that he has no clue about the real world.
Gotta admit he's good for the occasional laugh, though.

"Man prefers to believe what he prefers to be true" - Francis Bacon (1561-1626)
In which case it is fortunate that:
"Science is the best defense against believing what we want to" - Ian Stewart (1945- )

#60    turbonium

turbonium

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,344 posts
  • Joined:14 Mar 2005

Posted 13 September 2009 - 05:11 AM

NASA had nothing to do with it?!?! What a joke!!

The US Ambassador is on a Goodwill Tour - with the Apollo 11 astronauts - and gives the Dutch VIP a supposed Moon rock. The Dutch museum comes into possession of the rock, and calls NASA to confirm that it is a genuine Apollo Moon rock.

NASA does not tell the Dutch it cannot be a genuine Moon rock. Indeed, they give the Dutch the impression that it IS a genuine Moon rock. Why would NASA do that?

NASA has EVERYTHING to do with it.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users