[innerverse]

questionmark, on 05 November 2009 - 06:12 PM, said:

Nibblers are a collective designator for nebulous beings from other planets, galaxies and dimension on this forum.

ED: Μην το πέστε στα ελληνικά, θα προκαλέσετε μια θεωρία συνωμοσία

Oh, i see...A kind of entities that can feet anywhere...
P.S lol you're probably right...

[lightlyy]

questionmark, on 05 November 2009 - 03:32 PM, said:

No... that would deny the holy existence of the Nibblers! Don't you dare say that!

hi questionmark, Don't dare say what? Convergence? I didn't mention nibblers from other planets or dimensions . . .
i just think Convergence theory is overused. I also think, if that is allowed at my skill level, that ideas have been shared on larger scales in the past than currently 'popularly' accepted.
... especially when evidence seems to make shared information a more logical conclusion than Convergence, as with the metal holding thingys used in stone constructions all over the 'place' ?

[questionmark]

lightlyy, on 06 November 2009 - 04:01 PM, said:

hi questionmark, Don't dare say what? Convergence? I didn't mention nibblers from other planets or dimensions . . .
i just think Convergence theory is overused. I also think, if that is allowed at my skill level, that ideas have been shared on larger scales in the past than currently 'popularly' accepted.
... especially when evidence seems to make shared information a more logical conclusion than Convergence, as with the metal holding thingys used in stone constructions all over the 'place' ?

Never mind...my attempt at a joke. Got to practice more...

[Qoais]

I think Questionmark meant

Nibblers grow in the dark, yeah nibblers grow in the dark
Nibblers grow in cracks and holes and lives in peoples minds - especially the nutters' and fringers' minds and more especially the minds of the nutters and fringers in this forum.

[lakeview rud]

For Sandman; in an earlier post I speculated that drilling the holes was so easily done that that is how they shaped the stones. Your question is legit. Why scribe the line? My guess is that they had some division of labor going on where the master mason or foreman scribed the line to show where to drill and then a laborer/ journeyman drilled the holes. (Damn, I been drillin' all day; when do I get to use the scriber!!)

[lightlyy]

questionmark, on 06 November 2009 - 02:09 PM, said:

Never mind...my attempt at a joke. Got to practice more...

woops , *kneeslap!* . . sorry questionmark.. my first reaction was overreaction!

I fall on my face at the feet of the ∞HOLY ANCIENT NIBBLERS∞

This post has been edited by lightlyy: 07 November 2009 - 02:31 AM

[Oniomancer]

lightlyy, on 06 November 2009 - 10:01 AM, said:

i just think Convergence theory is overused. I also think, if that is allowed at my skill level, that ideas have been shared on larger scales in the past than currently 'popularly' accepted.
... especially when evidence seems to make shared information a more logical conclusion than Convergence, as with the metal holding thingys used in stone constructions all over the 'place' ?

As with the pyramids, they appear superficially similar but when compared against each other, the approaches have significant differences. The Tiwanakan version Is "I" shaped, while the Egyptions used what's known as a butterfly joint, similar to dovetail joinery.
This suggests two independant thought processes ay work.

[lightlyy]

Oniomancer, on 07 November 2009 - 05:55 AM, said:

As with the pyramids, they appear superficially similar but when compared against each other, the approaches have significant differences. The Tiwanakan version Is "I" shaped, while the Egyptions used what's known as a butterfly joint, similar to dovetail joinery.
This suggests two independant thought processes ay work.

well, yes Onionmancer.. could be the clamps/pins were conceived of entirely independently ... like.. "hey i just had an idea.. why couldn't we carve notches in the blocks and then pour in molten metal holding pins !? .. whadaya think!? " . It just seems like such a Specific idea that it just seems more likely to be an idea passed along ? Cultures may have a tendency to 'personalize' inventions ,and ideas, that come their way? I can't think of an example of that off hand ... unless this example of a possible shared and then culturally personalized idea might work?  Ourboros~.gif (76.58K)
Number of downloads: 16

[Swede]

lightlyy, on 07 November 2009 - 08:11 AM, said:

well, yes Onionmancer.. could be the clamps/pins were conceived of entirely independently ... like.. "hey i just had an idea.. why couldn't we carve notches in the blocks and then pour in molten metal holding pins !? .. whadaya think!? " . It just seems like such a Specific idea that it just seems more likely to be an idea passed along ? Cultures may have a tendency to 'personalize' inventions ,and ideas, that come their way? I can't think of an example of that off hand ... unless this example of a possible shared and then culturally personalized idea might work? Ourboros~.gif

lightly - As I have previously noted, there are numerous examples of convergent technologies. Amongst these are ceramics, horticulture and lithic technologies. In the case of lithic technologies, and to be more specific, one can look at factors such as outre passe flaking and micro-blades technology. For a brief, tangential treatment of these latter, you may wish to consult;

Straus, Lawrence G.
2000 "Solutrean Settlement of North America? A Review of the Reality" American Antiquity 65(2) pp. 219-226

[Oniomancer]

lightlyy, on 07 November 2009 - 10:11 AM, said:

well, yes Onionmancer.. could be the clamps/pins were conceived of entirely independently ... like.. "hey i just had an idea.. why couldn't we carve notches in the blocks and then pour in molten metal holding pins !? .. whadaya think!? " . It just seems like such a Specific idea that it just seems more likely to be an idea passed along ? Cultures may have a tendency to 'personalize' inventions ,and ideas, that come their way?

That comes under the heading of only so many ways to do something. That type of connector happens to be the simplest way to secure two side by side peices edge on. Any other method requires more work and is potentially less sturdy. Multiple people coming up with the same idea is a common occurence. How do think the phrase "re-inventing the wheel" entered the vernacular?

Quote

I can't think of an example of that off hand ... unless this example of a possible shared and then culturally personalized idea might work? Ourboros~.gif

Snakes are everywhere. Snakes form coils. Snakes and circles are both universally powerful symbols. The prevalence of the design makes a difference too. One or two examples in one culture versus hundreds in another is not strong grounds for claiming a connection.

[mcrom901]

lightlyy, on 07 November 2009 - 02:11 PM, said:

well, yes Onionmancer.. could be the clamps/pins were conceived of entirely independently ... like.. "hey i just had an idea.. why couldn't we carve notches in the blocks and then pour in molten metal holding pins !? .. whadaya think!? " . It just seems like such a Specific idea that it just seems more likely to be an idea passed along ? Cultures may have a tendency to 'personalize' inventions ,and ideas, that come their way? I can't think of an example of that off hand ... unless this example of a possible shared and then culturally personalized idea might work? Ourboros~.gif

nice post.....

thank you

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=rPh1-0F-wqE

This post has been edited by mcrom901: 08 November 2009 - 01:46 AM

[lightlyy]

Okeydoke... Thanks Swede.. Thanks Onionmancer.. Yes. . ..maybe some things just seem TO specific to me.. to be another case of Convergence. .... Thanks mcrom .. alas however.. i still have only a dial up connection out here in 'Frog Holler' so videos are usually more or less out of the question !!

[TheSearcher]

lightlyy, on 07 November 2009 - 03:11 PM, said:

well, yes Onionmancer.. could be the clamps/pins were conceived of entirely independently ... like.. "hey i just had an idea.. why couldn't we carve notches in the blocks and then pour in molten metal holding pins !? .. whadaya think!? " . It just seems like such a Specific idea that it just seems more likely to be an idea passed along ? Cultures may have a tendency to 'personalize' inventions ,and ideas, that come their way? I can't think of an example of that off hand ... unless this example of a possible shared and then culturally personalized idea might work? Ourboros~.gif

I think a hammer would be a better example than Ourobouros Lightlyy. And yes I mean the normal object / tool hammer. Hammers have been around as long as humans have used tools to do anything under one form or another, and most cultures arrive on their own to the same kind of basic shape.

[lightlyy]

TheSearcher, on 09 November 2009 - 06:59 AM, said:

I think a hammer would be a better example than Ourobouros Lightlyy. And yes I mean the normal object / tool hammer. Hammers have been around as long as humans have used tools to do anything under one form or another, and most cultures arrive on their own to the same kind of basic shape.

hi Searcher, well yes , a hammer probably is a very good example of a convergent idea .. very logical to put a handle on a weight to achieve leverage while ' hammering' ?... But, i was trying to give an example of an idea that seemed too Specific to be coincidence/convergence. I have posted my little ourobouros gif before...for that same reason... and i got similar responses about circles and snakes... one was "how else can a snake swallow it's tail?" .... my point was and still is... why in the world would the idea of a snake swallowing it's tail occur in the minds of men the world over independently? Or if it did.. why would that thought seem important enough to record.... the world over ??? That's why i think it must be a SHARED idea.. a symbol representing something more important than a snake swallowing it's tail...
I thought that, maybe, my point about people personalizing ideas that are passed along was demonstrated in the culturally stylized versions of the ourobouros .
Pouring molten metal holding pins in carved notches of adjoining rocks.. still seems, to me, to be an extremely specific idea.
Hammers and even Wheels seem more obvious ,to me.
love, lightlyy

[TheSearcher]

lightlyy, on 09 November 2009 - 03:10 PM, said:

hi Searcher, well yes , a hammer probably is a very good example of a convergent idea .. very logical to put a handle on a weight to achieve leverage while ' hammering' ?... But, i was trying to give an example of an idea that seemed too Specific to be coincidence/convergence. I have posted my little ourobouros gif before...for that same reason... and i got similar responses about circles and snakes... one was "how else can a snake swallow it's tail?" .... my point was and still is... why in the world would the idea of a snake swallowing it's tail occur in the minds of men the world over independently? Or if it did.. why would that thought seem important enough to record.... the world over ??? That's why i think it must be a SHARED idea.. a symbol representing something more important than a snake swallowing it's tail...
I thought that, maybe, my point about people personalizing ideas that are passed along was demonstrated in the culturally stylized versions of the ourobouros .
Pouring molten metal holding pins in carved notches of adjoining rocks.. still seems, to me, to be an extremely specific idea.
Hammers and even Wheels seem more obvious ,to me.
love, lightlyy

For many inventions, two people thought of the same thing independantly, with no connection whatsoever and came up with the same solution for the same problem. The hammer is a good example for this. Most cultures have their own version of a hammer. The general idea is allways the same, although the details might differ. This is the prime example of same solutions for the same problems, yet not a shared idea.

It's the same for architecture, why, you'll ask, because for any given problem (be it architectural, tooling or science), there are only so many given solutions, meaning that some of the solutions are bound to overlap.
It stands to reason that some ways of working, or resolving a problem employ the same method, although being totally unrelated in any way.