[64lowrider]

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thats just it, the 'reason' for the possesion of the 'house' was the grizzly murder the year before the luxe family moved in. i forget the name now (brain fart) but the guy killed his parents and 2 brothers and 2 sisters while sleeping.
also the house was built on ground that the native indians used to say was 'inhabited by demons'.

I agree totally with BurnSide

[scuba0095]

Can one of you smart skeptics please debunk what darkknightapparition has said? Please explain how what he said is false information so we can go on and continue about how this story was a hoax. Thanks

[Thorn]

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THE TRUTH ABOUT THE CASE
Like that the deFeo family was drugged when their eldest son murdered them. That was the police's theory right off the bat. It was very odd that none of the six family members had woke up as their son/brother went from room to room shooting a high powered rifle. Not one of them woke up. The police later debunked this theory because the autopsy revealed that there were no drug's in any of the murdered family member's system.

Actually testing at the time was limited and there are a number of drugs that would not have been obvious in the victims systems. This is a well-known fact, and as someone in law enforcement I should hope you would know this. Testing improves all of the time, lists of known drugs are changed all of the time, and we become more sophisticated in the ways we go about the testing for toxins. I can name at least three drugs that could be used to put someone into a deep restive state that tests at the time would not have identified. We now look for these drugs because we learned through science that they exist.

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Another enteresting thing is the house's on ocean ave (where this all happened) are very close together and not one neighbor heard a shot fired. Another thing that the police were taken by was that every family member was sleeping on their stomach's when murdered. A very strange thing that every family member slept the same way on there stomach.

People sleeping on their stomach is proof of the supernatural? Really? It has been shown that a family can affect the way a child sleeps, and people can rub off on each other. If your mother puts you on your stomach over and over again you may develop an affinity for sleeping in that position. This may well be just a coincidence. I would also like to see your source for saying it looked like they were placed on their stomachs, as I had not heard that before.

Gunshots can be muffled rather easily and effectively, and not all shotguns are all that loud.

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A priest testified under oath in court (a priest) that he heard a disembodied voice tell him to "get out". I don't think they asked the priest in court about this but he also stated that he was slapped after hearing the voice. No one was around. There is no way to explain why a priest would lie about this he got absolutely no money or fame he tried very hard to keep his name out of the case.

If this is your research I am going to tell you right now it is flawed greatly. The priest in the book does not exist, they then said that they had changed his name foe whatever reason. The "actual" priest named later by the family NEVER, and I repeat NEVER was in the house. He only spoke to the family and not about haunting it was marriage counseling in part because they were worried about living in a house where murders took place. No slap, no voice, no court testimony. The priest in question is on official record as saying he never saw ANYTHING paranormal. So I am sorry, your facts are faulty.

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I just want everyone to take a min. and think about if you were in George Lutz's shoes and a horrible series of event's happened to you and more importantly your family. After going through all of the event's that happened. Trying to protect your family. Then losing everything you own due to it and after all of this and then some having the whole world call you a lier.

You work in law enforcement? If he lied and gave false statements to the police he is a criminal and a scumbag. He deserves what he gets, and he clearly does not deserve our sympathy. The man has perpetuated a hoax on the world, and made money from it. This is clearly wrong no matter what side of the law you are on, he made idiots of everyone and laughed all the way to the bank.

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Like I said I know alot about this case. I now do believe this happened, not exactly like what happened in the book and definitely not what happened in the movies. But something horrible did happen before the Lutz's lived there and during the time they did.

Before they lived there sure a guy killed his family, a deadbeat two-time loser killed people who loved him and brought him into this world. After that the only other horrible event was this family and a murderers lawyer put together a story to make money, and to get a guilty man out of jail. This to me may not be exactly "horrible" but it was horribly wrong.

I even have a theory on why it stopped based on my own experience's and the one's shared by friends and family.

Me too. It is because the entire thing was a hoax and after the people who pulled it off moved out the true nature of the situation was revealed. It was just a normal house.

This post has been edited by Thorn: 06 November 2005 - 10:59 PM

[Thorn]

Also I wanted to post here a bit of information from this topic we had already been discussing this in.

This basically details discrepancies from real life to the books. I do not care about the Movies, the further you get from the source the less likely you are to get it right. We can all agree on that. We can also agree Hollywood is there to make money. They are not impartial, thy lie and bend the truth all the time.

Anyway...

Some interesting examples of some of the many discrepancies in the story from the book which was actually changed after being released to correct flaws and alter key details.


Inside covers of paperback: "It contains the complete text of the original hard-cover edition. NOT ONE WORD HAS BEEN OMITTED."
This is wrong because Prentice Hall had edited the hard cover version sometime after the original printing. Bantam had used the final version of the hard cover which was different from the original.

Reporter Steve Bauman's quotes in the forward were inaccurate. As a result, Bauman and Marvin Scott sued the publishers for falsely quoting them.

The Catholic Church was never involved. The priest was never in the house and had only counseled the family after they left the house because they were having trouble living where the murders had taken place.

In the hardcover, the priest's car is a Chevy Vega, which makes it impossible for the hood to fly back against the windshield since a Vega's hood opens forward and away from the windshield. In the paperback, the car is a tan Ford. Apparently, an editor caught the error, and it was changed.

The 250-pound front door is ripped off his hinges.
George later admitted in an interview that it was actually the screen door that had gotten ripped off by the wind.

The Lutzes begin to experience problems with their phones.
Never once did they try to contact the phone company to report the problems.

Sergeant Al Gionfriddo enters the story on December 24th.
Sergeant Al Gionfriddo doesn't exist, and police never are involved.

Jimmy's $1500 disappears when he leaves his raincoat in the kitchen and goes into the living room with George.
The book doesn't mention where Kathy or the kids are. If the family is hurting so badly for money that they'd make up a tale of the supernatural and make it into a book and a movie, who's to say they wouldn't steal money from their own relatives? Also, if the kids are behaving so badly after moving into the house, how do we know one of them didn't take it and hide it?

The "red room" is discovered.
It's actually a 2X3 foot access space for plumbing that the family had painted red.

George gets some history about the property from the Amityville Historical Society about the indians using the land for their insane and about a John Ketcham buying the land for witchcraft purposes.
The family never went to the Amityville Historical Society until January 25, 1976 (after they'd moved out). Also, the Historical Society doesn't have any information about that piece of land.

"white figure that had burned itself into the soot against the rear bricks of the fireplace"
George and Kathy later admitted that it was just an ugly shape burned into the bricks and nothing more.

The police are called in to look around the house.
This is obviously wrong as the police were never called to the house as mentioned earlier.

George is starting up the basement stairs and stops to see where a smell is coming from. "From his position on the stairs, George had been able to see almost the entire cellar."
This is wrong since there are walls on both sides of the basement stairs. Had George stopped on the stairs, he'd only be able to see a portion of the basement at the bottom of the stairs.

Kathy levitates two feet above the bed.
George later said in a radio interview that it was an exaggeration and that she'd actually been only two inches off the bed. Maybe she had arched her back or something in her sleep and it looked like she was levitating two inches off the bed.

George also discovers a well in a basement when he loosens some of the dirt around the cement cap.
For one thing, there is no well in the basement.

When Francine visits the house, she says that the house "'is built on a burial ground or something like that.'"
There are no burial grounds on the property.

Green slime is found on the walls in the third floor hallway. Kathy blames the kids, but George would rather believe that it's supernatural.
The slime in the story went through a number of changes. When the Lutzes first went public, they said it was red coming out of keyholes. In the book, it was changed to green slime. After the book was released, the family said it was a black tar-like liquid that hardened so solid that it couldn't even be scraped off the walls. Of course, in the movie it was changed to blood.

Danny's hand gets caught in the window.
Originally when the family went public, the incident happened in the sewing room. It was an aluminum storm window. Both of Danny's hands got cut, and Kathy bandaged them there at home. In the book, Danny is in the master bedroom. It's the main/wooden window. Only Danny's right hand is under the window. It is smashed, not cut. And Danny is rushed to the hospital. The hospital has no records of the incident. George later said on an interview that the hand had only a slight cut and that they'd bandaged it at home. The movie moved the event back into the sewing room.

George nails boards across the sewing room door to keep it shut.
This door opened into the room as did the doors to the other rooms on that floor. Nailing boards across it from in the hallway would not keep it shut.

When the family tries to leave, the van won't start.
Sounds like the classic horror story, doesn't it? Maybe the van was just flooded or something. Also, since it's January, maybe it just has a hard time starting up. With the shock absorber and tire incident earlier, this wouldn't be surprising.
Also, why is it that the family goes back into the house, the same house that they are so scared of that they are fleeing from? Why didn't they go over to a neighbor's house to borrow the phone or get help?

The thunderstorm that keeps the family from escaping never existed, according to area meteorologists.

George says that he'd removed the damaged lock on the playroom door, and when he tries to bless the house, the green slime is flowing out of it.
There is no lock hole on the playroom door where the slime could come out of.

"'Please, please,' he ["Father Mancuso" to the spirits] whimpered, 'let me alone. I promise I won't talk to him again.'"
So a Catholic priest is now bargaining with the demon to save his own hide?

"There is simply too much independent corroboration of their narrative to support the speculation that they either imagined or fabricated these events."
After cutting out the police and Catholic Church's accounts which had been proven to have never happened, the only real witnesses to the events are George, Kathy, and their three kids (who would be very impressionable at their age by their parents).




Source: http://chatanuga.org/Amityville.html

This post has been edited by Thorn: 06 November 2005 - 02:32 AM

[AstralStar]

I was told the story of the Amityville horror whan i was about ten, after that i read accounts of it in various ghost story books, and i have to say that it terryfied me for many years, i always assumed that it was true, if somewhat exaggerated. But i didn't realise how little was actually included in the books i read until i read this thread. I now agree with most of you, it was a hoax.

[srbulger]

I feel that in this case, there could be an legitimate haunting, although the story that has appeared because of it has been blown well out of proportion, and is in fact mostly fictional. While there could be some evidence that would suggest a minor haunting, or possible even a demonic entity in the house, i don't believe that most of the described events ever took place in this house. One door closing, or one brief spector was turned into one of the most infamous hauntings ever.

Also, i believe there would have been more than enough negative energy in the house to cause many a sleepless night or an overactive imagination to run away.

[southampton enigma]

Yeah we done this topic last year, and had pretty much the same response, my views on this that were the lutz's, mad eup the whole thing just for money and publicity, because the people who moved in after them have not reported any strange goings on or any experiences, in a way i suppose this is a story which we will never know the truth, but all i can say, it what sort of idiot builds a house on an indian burial ground?

[Carla]

Well I checked out the Amityville website a long time ago. Well the man that lived in the house and that the newest Amityville movie is about seemed to deny everything. He was indicating how everything was changed thanks to Hollywood and was pretty upset about it. Apparently the house name was changed to stop tourists and it’s lived in now. My opinion im completely undecided i think some is true and some is just for the movie.

[Creepy_Steve]

It's a hoax a big fat hoax.
The house was not build on an indian burrial ground, There has never been any paranormal reports about the house.

Just brows these sites and you'll know the truyh.
No demons, no ghosts, just some sick bastards making al living out of misery.

amyty1

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Myth - The Shinnecock Indians resided in Amityville.

Fact - The Shinnecock Indians resided nowhere near Amityville. Besides, all of the Indians on Long Island were part of the Montaukett nation. It was the Europeans who placed names on the inhabitants of the local areas. Regardless, the Massapequans were the group that would have most likely visited Amityville. (Information courtesy of the Montaukett Nation).

Myth - 112 Ocean Avenue was an Indian sanitarium where the mad and dying would be left exposed to the elements to die.

Fact - There is no record that there ever was an Indian burial ground or a sanitarium on Ocean Avenue. According to Long Island Native American expert John Strong, author of We Are Still Here, many Indian groups lived along the tidal bays in the area, but as far as the claims about the Native Americans made in Jay Anson's The Amityville Horror, he insists that it leads him to believe it was all an entertaining hoax. Representatives of the local Indian population personally took author Ric Osuna to several abandoned Indian cemeteries that are right outside of the Village of Amityville. Sadly, these grounds are now used as dumping areas. Regardless, these native peoples' oral histories are quite amazing, so if a burial ground would have existed, then they would have known about it. Besides, these native people were a kind and gentle people, so it is absurd to think that they would leave anyone out, exposed to the elements to die or curse a land. Rather, they took care of their sick, dying and mentally insane and even showed the European settlers how to do the same. (Information courtesy of the Montaukett Nation).

Myth - A witch named John Ketchum escaped from Salem, Massachusetts, during the witch trials and built his house on or near the famous Amityville house to continue his devil worship. It is reported that his body is buried on or near the property of 112 Ocean Avenue.

Fact - A prominent citizen named John Ketchum did return from Ipswich, Massachusetts (a community near Salem), and settled in Huntington Township on Long Island. While in Massachusetts, this John Ketchum acted as a representative to the local government there before returning to Long Island where some of his family resided. He eventually became a prominent figure in Huntington before his death in 1697. He was survived by his wife Bethia and four children, John, Samuel, Edward and Mary. By the way, Huntington Township is more than 10 miles from Amityville. The Ketchum family has no information regarding any John Ketchum being a witch. (Information courtesy of the Ketchum Genealogy Organization).

Myth - The famed Amityville house resides on an ancient cemetery that was either abandoned or cursed.

Fact - In 1913, William A. Eardeley was commissioned by the state of New York to copy down old cemetery and bible records because many of the Amityville cemeteries were either abandoned or neglected. These cemeteries were either moved or relocated to bigger incorporated cemeteries. However, there was no report or indication of any cemetery residing on or near the famed property. (Information courtesy of the Amityville Historical Society and New York State Records on Cemeteries).

Myth - The owners of the original house at 112 Ocean Avenue had to move their house down the street because they were plagued with supernatural problems.

Fact - John Moynahan purchased the property at 112 Ocean Avenue from Annie Ireland in 1924. Within a year, the Moynahans needed a bigger home because, like most families, theirs grew in size. While their new home was being built, they moved their small cottage down only a matter of a hundred yards and lived there until the construction was completed. (Information courtesy of the Amityville Historical Society).



Original house now located on NW corner of S. Ireland and Carmen Pl.


Myth - The red room was the gateway to hell.

Fact - The red room was nothing more than a little area underneath a stairwell that the DeFeo children sometimes stored their toys or used as storage. Today, it no longer exists since the current owner has renovated the basement and constructed over it. (Information courtesy of public record and interviews).



With peeling paint, it's not that impressive.


Myth - American International Pictures' The Amityville Horror movie could not be filmed in the real house because the crew was too scared.

Fact - The Village of Amityville viewed the ghost story as a hoax and did not want a film crew in their sleepy community, so they denied shooting permits. (Information courtesy of the Village of Amityville).

Myth - Kathy Lutz has three dreams in The Amityville Horror about Louise DeFeo. First, Kathy Lutz wakes up screaming because she saw that Mrs. DeFeo died by a gunshot wound to the head. "She was shot in the head", Kathy screamed! The second dream consisted of Mrs. DeFeo's body being removed from the DeFeo plot at St. Charles Cemetery and re-entombed in Brooklyn. The last dream consisted of Mrs. DeFeo making love to the painter of the DeFeo portraits.

Fact - First, Mrs. DeFeo died from two gunshots to the upper body and not a head or neck wound, even though Louise DeFeo's head seems to be near blood splatter in crime-scene photos. Second, the Brigantes never moved Mrs. DeFeo's body from the family plot because they wanted Louise with her children. This was recently confirmed in a records search of the cemetery. Lastly, there is no evidence of an affair. Besides, Mr. DeFeo constantly checked up on Louise with the "red phone" that only he knew the number to since he was always so paranoid. Furthermore, William Weber admitted in a July 27, 1979 Associated Press interview that while discussing their business venture, Kathy concocted the nightmare idea about Louise DeFeo. (Information courtesy of public records).

Myth - The 250-pound front door of the house was inexplicably torn off its hinges. And, a locksmith was called out to repair the door.

Fact - The photo below shows the screen door, not storm door or front door as originally explained, torn off its hinges. With the gusty winds coming off the Great South Bay, a measly screen door can easily be damaged. (Information courtesy of Newsday).



Photo from Newsday 2-14-76


Myth - The Catholic Church is hiding evidence that "something" existed in the Amityville house.

Fact - Father Ralph Pecoraro admitted that his only contact with the Lutzes was a phone call. Questions remain whether or not he even ventured to the famed residence in Amityville. The assistant to the Vicar General of the Rockville Diocese (The diocese overseeing Amityville), on May 15, 2002, sent author Ric Osuna a letter stating their position. In short, the letter stated, "The Diocese maintains [the Amityville Horror] is a false report." (See The Catholic Church Speaks Out section)


* * *

In the March 1979 issue of Writer’s Digest, Anson addressed the inconsistencies by saying, “Yeah, I know the psychical research people say I have made mistakes. They say that on such and such a day when I said it rained, it didn’t rain. So what? I am a perfectly normal human being, and sometimes I make mistakes.”

Many of the so called truths and facts stated in Jay Anson’s book were anything but that. Take away all of the "facts" presented in the horror novel that appear on this page, then readers begin to question how his book could be labeled a work of nonfiction.

Big fat lie!

The Defoe family did get murderd there, but no paranormal activity has ever been reported by anybody then the Lutz family.
After the family "fled" other families have lived there through the years and nobody ever reported any paranomale activity.
Bogus, lies and fabrications!

[amybutts]

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Can one of you smart skeptics please debunk what darkknightapparition has said? Please explain how what he said is false information so we can go on and continue about how this story was a hoax. Thanks

All of Thorn's answers were good ones. I just want to add one thing, the family was not drugged. I believe the theory was that Butch, a friend of his and Dawn shot and killed both parents while the kids were in their rooms. One of the young boys was in a wheelchair at the time because of a leg injury. Butch told them their was a burglar in the house and for them to stay in their rooms, because it was their brother and they trusted him, they did as they were told.

From their, the story (as told by Butch, but then again, he has told several) goes that the friend freaked out and fled the house. Butch ran after him telling Dawn to take the kids to their grandparents house, they were going to try and make it look like a robery gone bad. When he got back to the house he discovered Dawn shot and killed the rest of the children and in a fit of rage, he killed Dawn.

I am sure that is probably not completely true, but is probably the closest you are going to get to the truth. Butch DeFeo will take the truth of that night to his grave, I'm sure. But, that explains why the children never left their rooms.

The only demon in this story is behind bars.

This post has been edited by amybutts: 07 November 2005 - 02:54 AM

[artslave]

Right on Amy!
I was looking at the poll and was amazed at how many people still believe in the bogus paranormal aspect of this story.Most folks have been aware that the demonic activity reported in the house was a 'hoax
for profit' scheme,starting with the hilarious book and culminating,or perpetuated,in the oh so rediculous movies.The whole fiasco was revealed in the 1980's!I do believe that houses can be extremely haunted,having lived in a couple of them myself in Western KY.I just don't believe the Amityville house was/is one of them.

[amybutts]

Artslave,

EXACTLY! It amazes me what people will cling to, even with evidence right in front of them! Another subject I find hilarious is the Warrens. Even after the Amityville blunder and so many others blunders they were involved in, people believe they are the real life ghost busters.

This post has been edited by amybutts: 07 November 2005 - 03:34 AM

[artslave]

Yes,Amy.I just saw them on television last week.Still up to the same old,
tired hocus pocus.Amazing that people can actually earn a living at this type of thing.If my house was haunted they are the last people I would call.A catholic priest,maybe.The Warrens,I don't think so.I'm reminded of how many instances of 'repressed memories' the two have 'revealed' by their hypnosis sessions concerning 'alien abduction' cases.But that's another subject.Smart lady,you are.

[Thorn]

Thanks Amy, and that is an amazing recap of one of the best theories I have heard about what really went down. I was trying to find a good link to information I had read before (the part about the brother and sister angle) but was coming up empty. I had not heard the part about the friend before though, and that is a whole new dimension to me. I think it is a very plausible explanation.

[scuba0095]

I am so curious to see darkknightapparition's defence towards all this debunking lol