[Listening]

well, it was mandatory at MY hospital, and so far only a handful have taken it. they threatened to suspend those of us who don't take it, but it left them with no staff, so they backpedaled with a quickness. . . just like they did when the cdc recommended workers with the flu stay home 7 days, it quickly became 3 days when there was no staff. so i say good luck with that one.

[Peter B]

Well, my wife and I had our swine flu vaccines yesterday. So far we haven't died, turned into zombies or had our injected arms fall off. We weren't even given a silver bracelet.

Here in Oz the vaccine is optional, but government ads on TV are recommending it for certain groups of people, such as the elderly, the pregnant and those with suppressed immune systems.

On the Skeptics email list I belong to, there has been some discussion about whether the vaccination campaign has been an expensive over-reaction. My thought is that it's better to be safe than sorry, as an outbreak as bad as the Spanish Flu in 1918-19 would be horrific. But I can also see why people might hold the view that it's a waste of money.

The main point for me is that there are some people who can't be vaccinated for various reasons. I'd be very upset if someone I loved who couldn't be vaccinated died from such a disease they caught from someone who could've been vaccinated but chose not to be. In other words, while I get vaccinated to protect myself, I also do it so I can't pass the disease on to someone who can't be vaccinated.

[Corp]

Let us know when you become a government controled zombie.

[Br Cornelius]

Corp, on 14 October 2009 - 03:46 PM, said:

Let us know when you become a government controled zombie.

The Swine flu has swept Ireland already, and almost everyone I know seems to have had it. The vaccine is still weeks/months away. You have to ask will it be made mandatory even though it will not protect the vast proportion of the population who have already had this reasonably mild flu. I don't know whats going on, but its starting to not make any sense at all to me at the moment.

I am certainly not panicked that we are all imminently going to die of the flu. I know that if the vaccine has squalene in it, then the vaccine can severely over stress the immune system and result in chronic fatigue (which can last for week/months/years), and reduce the bodies ability to fend off other infections. Maybe this is what is going on, because the panic over the Swine flu seems hysterically out of proportion to the threat.

Br Cornelius

[flyingswan]

Br Cornelius, on 14 October 2009 - 04:51 PM, said:

The Swine flu has swept Ireland already, and almost everyone I know seems to have had it.

Back when every case was being counted, the death rate was about 1 in a 1000 cases. If everyone in Ireland has had it, then that would entail about 4000 deaths. Since the deaths worldwide are only just above that figure, I think you are wrong on this. In other words, the great majority of the Irish population have yet to get it and stand to benefit from any campaign to control the spread.

[Corp]

Well to be fair he said everyone he knows has it, which could be ten people or something. I would think there'd be something in the news of all of Ireland was shut down due to the flu.

[Benz]

i like the idea, no more missing person reports really.

[Rock Slinger]

Peter B, on 14 October 2009 - 07:42 AM, said:

Well, my wife and I had our swine flu vaccines yesterday. So far we haven't died, turned into zombies or had our injected arms fall off. We weren't even given a silver bracelet.

Here in Oz the vaccine is optional, but government ads on TV are recommending it for certain groups of people, such as the elderly, the pregnant and those with suppressed immune systems.

On the Skeptics email list I belong to, there has been some discussion about whether the vaccination campaign has been an expensive over-reaction. My thought is that it's better to be safe than sorry, as an outbreak as bad as the Spanish Flu in 1918-19 would be horrific. But I can also see why people might hold the view that it's a waste of money.


The main point for me is that there are some people who can't be vaccinated for various reasons. I'd be very upset if someone I loved who couldn't be vaccinated died from such a disease they caught from someone who could've been vaccinated but chose not to be. In other words, while I get vaccinated to protect myself, I also do it so I can't pass the disease on to someone who can't be vaccinated.

Unless you are apt to believe this:

http://educate-yours...on09dec06.shtml

Their scare-head campaign cry is that the swine flu is like the 1918 flu which killed 20,000,000 people. They don’t have any usable and provable blood samples from the 1918 flu epidemic to prove it. That was 58 years ago, and the doctors were just as confused and inefficient then as now. However, one thing is certain — the 1918 Spanish Influenza was a vaccine-induced disease caused by extreme body poisoning from the conglomeration of many different vaccines. The soldiers at Fort Dix who were said to have had Swine Flu had been injected with a large variety of vaccines like the vaccines which caused the 1918 flu epidemic. The flu epidemic at Fort Dix was in no way related to swine. There were no swine at camp (unless we want to sarcastically call the vaccine promoters who caused the diseases -"swine.")


Edit: added below
Please read the entirety of this article. It is interesting and sounds plausible.

This post has been edited by Rock Slinger: 15 October 2009 - 01:46 PM

[Rock Slinger]

And we know how 1976 worked out for some

http://www.nytimes.c...ccine.html?_r=1

The feared swine flu epidemic of 1976 never materialized. And several hundred people, including Ms. Kinney, who is now 68 and lives in Gig Harbor, Wash., developed Guillain-Barré syndrome, a rare neurological condition that causes temporary muscle weakness or paralysis. More than 30 of those people died.

Many experts say they do not think a vaccine for the new flu strain, called H1N1, would raise a similar risk for Guillain-Barré. But answering that question is difficult because to this day, no one has figured out why the 1976 vaccine caused the disease, in which the body’s immune system mistakenly attacks the nerves.

Indeed, some researchers still question whether the vaccine

[Corp]

Wait someone is claiming that the 1918 flu was caused by vaccines?

[Br Cornelius]

What percentage of the population actually contracts the flu in an outbreak, so of the total Irish population how many would really be expected to die. How many cases go unreported and so skew the figures. How many cases actually come to the attention of the medical establishment. How accurate is the reported 1 in a 1000 death rate (seems very high especially in light of the death rates in South Africa which were already reported in this thread) , and how many unreported cases does it not take into account . Is that figure based on a healthy well fed population such as Irelands, or a general world population which consists of many malnourished individuals with reduced immunity.

I know of about half of the people who I personally know who have had symptoms which perfectly fit N1H1, the distinguishing feature is vomiting and diarrhea, though not in all cases. Almost none of them have been to the doctor. I know of one person with an underlying heart condition who is still off work after two months. I myself have had post viral fatigue for about a month. There have been about four reported deaths in the country, all with underlying health issues. The N1H1 virus has been at large in Ireland for about 6mths now, how many who haven't yet contracted it will subsequently catch it. The death rate so far seems about right for a mild flu, and certainly lower than for normal flu's.

Do not try to imply that I don't know what I am talking about. You have nothing to fear from this virus unless you have underlying health issues, and I can think of few who will benefit from the vaccine and would be reluctant to recommend it to almost anyone. Spreading fear of this virus is just bull.

Br Cornelius

This post has been edited by Br Cornelius: 15 October 2009 - 06:29 PM

[unit]

i like the one who posted "you have exec. orders, fema camps, etc" (i don't see how it's still thought of as a conspiracy)
it's funny how sometimes we're looking for something and there it is.. just staring us in the face..
..almost let it go untill i read something about the gov 'trying to do something right for a change'
..then it dawned on me,
it never does anything right.

[Rock Slinger]

Corp, on 15 October 2009 - 11:38 AM, said:

Wait someone is claiming that the 1918 flu was caused by vaccines?

I am not making this claim but posting what this nurse reported in 1976 to warn people to not take the shots for that impending pandemic. Was she right? Who knows, but she might have been. Not taking the shot in 1976 could have saved some people some misery though, that we know. No pandemic but a small percentage of people got all messed up.

History has a way of repeating itself though doesn't it?

[KennyB]

Corp , I did. Look it up on Google. KennyB

[Rock Slinger]

KennyB, on 15 October 2009 - 08:44 PM, said:

Corp , I did. Look it up on Google. KennyB

http://www.consumerc...ndex.php?cat=44

Prevention: Is the swine flu jab safe?

A warning that the new swine flu jab is linked to a deadly nerve disease has been sent by the Government to senior neurologists in a confidential letter.

The letter from the Health Protection Agency, the official body that oversees public health, has been leaked to The Mail on Sunday, leading to demands to know why the information has not been given to the public before the vaccination of millions of people, including children, begins.

It tells the neurologists that they must be alert for an increase in a brain disorder called Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS), which could be triggered by the vaccine.

GBS attacks the lining of the nerves, causing paralysis and inability to breathe, and can be fatal.

The letter, sent to about 600 neurologists on July 29, is the first sign that there is concern at the highest levels that the vaccine itself could cause serious complications.

It refers to the use of a similar swine flu vaccine in the United States in 1976 when:

* More people died from the vaccination than from swine flu.
* 500 cases of GBS were detected.
* The vaccine may have increased the risk of contracting GBS by eight times.
* The vaccine was withdrawn after just ten weeks when the link with GBS became clear.
* The US Government was forced to pay out millions of dollars to those affected.

Concerns have already been raised that the new vaccine has not been sufficiently tested and that the effects, especially on children, are unknown.

It is being developed by pharmaceutical companies and will be given to about 13million people during the first wave of immunisation, expected to start in October....